30 Days of MMA

[Lei Tong 0]

IIRC, Mir tried bulking up to about 270 during a lay-off at one point, around the same time Roy Nelson tooled him in grappling comeptition.

 

In regards to Ludwig, he's still a bit better as a striker than the vast majority of guys in MMA; on the flip side, he's not unbeatable on his feet, as Sam Morgan's recent KO of him shows.

 

Oh, well. Just gives me more reason to hype Akira Kikuchi.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Tonight kicks off the run of MMA with the UFC airing UNLEASHED at 11pm on SPIKETV.

 

And for Canadian fans, APEX's FREEDOM FIGHT will be airing on TSN from 7-9pm.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

-Gomi got the best of Hansen standing, but again, he couldn't continue to do it when it counted: the 3rd round. In the 3rd round he essentially gave up the fight with a lackadaizacal effort from the top. Hell, people often give UFC shit for overrating the importance of simply obtaining and keeping top position. The fact is, Gomi lost the bout fairly, and I don't see how he could be ranked ahead of Hansen with comparable resumes and a head-to-head loss.

 

I disagree with your assessment of the third round and I don't think it's a "fact" that Gomi lost the bout "fairly". Gomi was active in the third round for all but 40 seconds. He got a choke and turned it into a front headlock and got off 2 knees. He easily reversed Hansens attempts at a leglock and turned it around on him. He got off some good shots from the guard and was active on top for the most part. He controlled the fight in every aspect. There was nothing in that match that suggested to me that a rematch would have Hansen winning the bout or that he was a better fighter than Gomi.

 

- Pulver had NO size advantage.

 

Going by Sherdog records he did, but evidently going by those pictures he didn't.

 

Gomi used that weight advantage every single time he struck Pulver. Weight plays a factor not only in the grapping aspect of MMA, but striking as well. The fact is, Pulver was never a big LW, and the talent in the weight division had become so that the size he gives up is no longer negated by his skills. Also, I don't know how you can say that Gomi's size advanatge didn't help him. This day and age in MMA, a fight between skilled fighters seperated by 15+lbs is never going to favor the smaller guy. As far as technique, Gomi was able to shrug off Pulver's shots and bang through Pulver's guard without any fear of retribution from a weaker fighter. The fact is, physical advantages had as much to do with that win as skill.

 

Disagreed. The actual shot that put Pulver down wasn't due to physical strength - it was about hitting the right spot at the right time. It was due to timing and accuracy. It was a skillful knockout. Despite Pulver being "smaller" I don't see a considerable advantage going to Gomi because of it. The reach advantage wasn't abnormal - you'd see it in any fight. The physical mass of Gomi wasn't that much bigger than Pulver - waistlines, shoulder width, biceps, forearms, calfs - it was pretty much even. The only thing of Gomis what was discernably bigger was his huge frikken head. I think it is completely unfair to negate Gomis win over Pulver for Pulver being "undersized" when an undersized Pulver was able to beat BJ Penn.

 

- No one's arguing that Lugwig isn't a good striker, but combined with the Maxwell loss, it's hard to give THAT much credit to yet another fighter for doing the same, especially one of arguablly more skill.

 

You'd rather look at two losses (and specifically one) rather than numerous wins via KO? I don't think Gomis KO win should be discredited because of one fight.

 

- I don't necessarily see how the flaws Azaredo exposed were fixed in the Silva fight, outside of Gomi taking the fight to the ground more often. As a striker, Gomi has always relied on his chin & wreslting ability to get him out of danger, as opposed to solid defense.

 

Gomi kept greater distance against Silva, whereas he underestimated the gap between he and Az in their previous fight and got caught more. Wouldn't you say that avoiding the strikes by moving back is solid defense?

 

Also, I meant to say "good" ground fighters (in regards to Silva & Bennet).over lackluster competition, but when faced with a decent grund fighter (Remedios, who's ground skills are far from elite), he needs his stand-up skills.

 

From what I've seen of Silva, I'd say his ground skills are "good".

 

As far more well rounded, I'd say Thomson & Edwards jump out. Both have solid striking, as well as good ground & submission skills. Thomson has some good takedown skills as well, and Yves has good takedown defense.

 

I like both Thomson and Edwards and agree that they are very well rounded. I think it would be a cool lil experiment to make a list of skills (striking, wrestling, submissions, etc.) and grade each fighter on them. It would make for some good discussion, as I think this has.

 

- As stated before, he won the fight based on the judging criteria. Besides, I rank him two spots ahead of Gomi because not only did he beat Gomi, but Yves Edwards has a better resume than Gomi as well. and thus gets placed just ahead of Takanori as well.

 

Gomis resume is impressive and I wouldn't say Yves is _more_ impressive. Thomson and Franca and Mishma are good wins, but then again so are Silva and Az and Pulver. I appreciate fighters that fight often and build their records. They prove that they have durability in the sport. Yves and Gomi prove that. I don't think your top two have yet, and it looks to me they get there on the basis of Hansen beating Gomi.

 

Also, Hansen doesn't deal with the "overrated" stigma simply because no one ever talkes about him as being the #1 LW in the world as they do Gomi.

 

So Gomi should continually be dismissed and disrespected because other people put him as their #1? Unfair. His performances deserve better. I'd hate to see what you say about Kawajiri when he gets more popular.

 

- As those pictures showed, Sherdog's stats are often inaccurate, from fighter stats to match endings, etc. Gomi has bulked up since arriving in Bushido (thanks to the 160lbs limit). He's bigger than Shaolin overall, and also bulkier than Edwards & Hansen. The issue was never that big until he came to PRIDE and started feasting on smaller men en route to his current overrated stature.

 

I think Gomi has stepped it up in his past few fights. In the beginning he was getting fed some easy guys to build him up (Gracie being an iffy one), but he should get some respect for taking on the Chute Boxe Academies good fighters. I wouldn't exactly call that "feasting on smaller men".

[Lei Tong 0]

- And what about Hansen's right hand/knee to the body combo in the opening seconds of the round (shown on replay)? Or the fact he threw more punches from his guard than Gomi did whilst on top of him? And further, kept Gomi from landing even a single meaningful punch during the entire round? The fact is, everyone going into the final round knew Gomi was going to have to either knock Hansen down, "catch" him, dominate him, or outright finish him to win the fight. As it was, the vast majority saw the 3rd round as a draw, with neither fighter doing enough to win the round.

 

- I don't see how you can't see the size difference in those pictures alone. And again, Pulver had NOT been a force at 155lbs+ for a LONG time. If he had, he wouldn't have dropped to FW to try and renew his career. If Georges. St. Pierre had to fight Rich Franklin on 3 weeks notice after having trained to fight Frank Trigg, I wouldn't give Franklin a whole lot of credit for that win either.

 

- Any boxing trainer will tell you moving straight back is the WORST thing you can do when under pressure from a striker. See Belfort/Silva.

 

- And I'd say that if Silva can't handle the likes of Leigh Remedios on the ground, he isn't that good. I'd say almost every single fighter in the Top 15 of the division is better (excluding Boku off the top of my head).

 

- As I've already pointed out, the difference between wins over Thomson, Mishima & Franca is that they were all ranked and clearly known of as better fighters at LW than the likes of Silva, Pulver & Azaredo. So are Joachim Hansen & Mitsuhiro Ishida (whom Shaolin beat). AND, Kawajiri beat both Edwards & Shaolin, TWO Top 5 caliber fighters, which is 2 more than Gomi ever has in his career. So it looks like this:

 

1) Kawajiri: wins over 2 Top 5 fighters (Ribeiro, Yves) & 2 Top 15 fighters (Bow & Nakayama).

2) Shaolin: wins over a top 5 fighter (Hansen), a Top 10 fighter (Kawajiri) and 3 Top 15 fighters (Bow, Nakayama & Ishida)

3) Hansen: wins over a Top 5 fighter (Gomi), & 2 Top 15 fighters (Uno, Nakayama)

4) Edwards: wins over 3 Top 10 fighters (Thomson, Franca x2 & Mishima)

5) Gomi: wins over a Top 10 fighter (Mishima) & 2 Top 15 fighters (Gracie & Bow)

 

PLEASE tell me how Gomi could be ranked ahead of any of the 4 above?

 

- Kawajiri has already accoplished far more than Gomi, so him being called the best LW in the world will doubtfully bother me. I could only hope that he gets half of the crddit Gomi does on a regular basis.

 

- He's fought 2 larger men in his last 2 bouts, yes, but when you're being hyped as the best fighter in your weight class, you should be expected to face the best in your class, not simply decent-to-good fighters. He has yet to do that in his PRIDE tenure thus far.

[Dogbert 0]

I'm new to the world of MMA... but man, is this Forrest guy from "The Ultimate Fighter" a tough SOB.

 

He and the other guy had one hell of a fight tonight.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

*****.

 

FOTY.

 

Still amazing.

[Guest Deft]

Uno/Hansen still reigns supreme.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

PLEASE tell me how Gomi could be ranked ahead of any of the 4 above?

 

The heart of this issue, and probably the fundamental difference between you and I, is that I don't just look at Wins and Losses. I put more stock into performance and the fight itself, because I think that often is more indicative of a fighters overall skills than whether or not he ultimately won. I don't think Chuck Liddell is a better fighter than Randy Couture, so I don't put him above Randy in my LW rankings despite his recent Rd 1 KO win over Couture.

 

From what I have seen from Kawajiri and Shaolin - and I fully acknowledge this may change when I see more of them - is that they are not as good of fighters as Hansen and Gomi. Kawajiris performance at the last Bushido show, for the most part, was shit. While Gomi was very impressive, as was Hansen (and I am not just basing my opinion on the Bushido show, but am using it as an example). They are very well rounded and they push the fight and they can win and have won fights both standing and on the ground. Edwards is like that too, but he's not nearly as aggressive and I think that hurts him a bit. Shaolin and Kawajiri tend to win the same way each fight - they are extremely strong in one area and well adept enough in others to compliment their strengths. And while that may put up wins, in terms of being a mixed martial artist, it's not what I consider enough to be a top fighter.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Kawajiri is more well rounded than Gomi I'd say. To add to what he said about backing up, not only is that not an improvement it's a step backwards (Heh, pun not intended). If anything, instead of learning how to properly defend strikes and not get tagged, he'll just back up and get tagged worse. The same applies, if he fights someone wiht power, they will now tag him more and more as he steps back. You move faster going forward than backward after all. Going backwards is a sign of fear and hesitation. Parrying and sidestepping is the way to go.

 

I'm not surprised about Chuck. He never gets the credit he deserves. I stopped arguing about that a long time ago.

[Lei Tong 0]

Then why should any of the top fighters ever bother fighting each other? Would it simply be better if Shaolin simply continued to choke overmatched fighters out in the first round or, rather than putting on a less entertaining display against Hansen? Hell, Gomi gets more credit LOSING to Hansen than Shaolin gets for CHOKING HIM INTO SUBMISSION. Put Ribeiro against Gomi's PRIDE competition, and he likely submits every single one of them in the first round. Frankly, I'll take a fighter who puts on workmanlike performances against tough competition regularly (Kawajiri), than a fighter who can look like a million bucks against cans (Gomi). I'll call Sean Sherk & Jason Black better fighters than Phil Baroni anyday. Also, comparing Gomi to Couture is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS. Both Tito Ortiz & Chuck Liddell were in the top 5 of the LHW division when Couture UTTERLY DOMINATED them (and Belfort was in the Top 10). Gomi has not come within miles of doing anything that impressive.

 

I really think what all this comes down to is exposure. The vast majority of North American fans don't have access to non-PRIDE Japanese shows, or even small-time American shows, and thus it becomes a matter of "If I can't see it, it doesn't exist." Why weren't people paying attention to Gomi when he started making his fighting style more appealing than his previously L&P style (vs. Mishima, Ertl & Hansen)? Because he didn't fight in the UFC, which at the time was the only place most fans saw LW fighters. Yet as soon as PRIDE brings him in: "Hey, I've heard about this guy before... I've never seen him fight before these past couple of exciting bouts, nor have I ever bothered thinking of him as a Top 10 fighter, but if Bas & Mauro say he's the best, it must be true!" The fact is, there have been tons upon tons of fighters who got no repsect until they showed up in either of the Big 2, in spite of already being at an elite level, including the likes of Noguiera & Fedor.

[Lei Tong 0]

Some other quick points:

 

- For another example of why you don't move straight back: Swick vs. Schoenauer from last night.

 

- Liddell has KO'ed two Top 5 level LHW's (Couture & Babalu) in the first round, as well as defeat Ortiz, Overeem, Belfort, White & Randleman. Amongst LHW's, he has the highest ovlume of wins vs. Top fighters. And if he fights as smart and as paced as he did vs. Couture, I dare say there's no one in the world he couldn't beat.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Liddell has KO'ed two Top 5 level LHW's (Couture & Babalu) in the first round, as well as defeat Ortiz, Overeem, Belfort, White & Randleman. Amongst LHW's, he has the highest ovlume of wins vs. Top fighters. And if he fights as smart and as paced as he did vs. Couture, I dare say there's no one  in the world he couldn't beat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Also, I can't tell if that line with Sherk and Black is sarcasm, since I don't know who Black is and I do know that Sherk has beaten Karo twice as well as being undersized yet still taking Hughes to a decision so he doesn't only fight cans.

[Lei Tong 0]

Jason Black is a now retired welterweight who never got a shot at the big time because:

 

1) He was a boring fighter

2) Militech already had 2 welterweights fighting in the UFC (Hughes & Lawler).

 

He was a good, undefeated fighter (with a single draw to spoiler/awesome L&P fighter Antonio McKee) with some good wins. Upon his retirement, he was widely considered a Top 5/10 WW amongst those "in the know," putting him right behind Ricardo Almeida in the "Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda" category.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Then I simply don't get the analogy, because Baroni recently hasn't really fought any cans.

[Lei Tong 0]

Well, I was actually refferring to the excitement of each guy's bouts, so my bad. Switch Baroni with someone like Robbie Lawler or Alksandr Emelianenko and it'll probably fit better.

 

BTW- A Kawjiri highlight video:

 

http://s23.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=06JZTRR...TI1XLXZKVKOU2Q5

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Okay that makes sense, Ricardo Morais and James Thompson are the definition of cans.

 

Also, what song is used in that highlight? I think it's the one I've seen before, with the Japanese rock song?

[Lei Tong 0]

Yeah, it's the one by krikit posted at the UFC.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Have I mentioned how much I love Unleashed???

 

August 8th - Monday, 11:05 PM ET

Unleashed - Spike TV

Chuck Liddell vs. Tito Ortiz

Chuck Liddell vs. Vernon White (~!!!)

Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo 1 (~!!!!!)

 

August 15th - 11:05 PM ET

Unleashed - Spike TV

Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 1 (~!)

Matt Hughes vs. Frank Trigg 2 (~!)

Rich Franklin vs. Evan Tanner 1 (haven't seen this since it aired... ~!!!!)

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

An updated Boiling Point card.

 

Official Fight Card

 

Light Heavweight Championship

Chuck Liddell vs. Jeremy Horn

 

Light Heavyweight Bout

Randy Couture vs. Mike Van Arsdale

 

Welterweight Bout

Diego Sanchez vs. Brian Gassaway

 

Welterweight Bout

Frank Trigg vs. Georges St. Pierre

 

Heavyweight Bout

Tim Sylvia vs. Tra Telligman

 

Middleweight Bout

Matt Lindland vs. Joe Doerksen

Travis Lutter vs. Trevor Prangley

 

Light Heavyweight Bout

James Irvin vs. Terry Martin

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Come on Horn. Melt the Snowman.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Ahhh fuck Horn, I hope he gets knocked out, but for all their Tito bashing, I bet if he was in the main event it would have sold out.

[Lei Tong 0]

Come on Horn. Melt the Snowman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

"Snowman" is Jeff Monson's nickname, though I have started a petition tohave him renamed "World's Most Boring Submission Wrestler."

 

Chuck's is "Iceman."

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

It's also what Tito called Chuck at that UFC 46 hype interview, on account of his belly and all.

 

Last of the mohicans got a chuckle out of me, from UFC 51 especially since Chuck was drunk and angry, so his reaction was funnier. He was actually pissed off.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

July 22nd - 9:00pm

Bushido Vol 8 - pay per view

 

-Thumbs up

 

 

August 6th - 9:00 pm et

Ultimate Fight Night - Spike TV

Ivan Salaverry vs Nathan Marquardt

Stephan Bonnar vs Sam Hoger

Kenny Florian vs Alex Karalexis

Mike Swick vs Keith Rockel

Josh Koscheck vs Pete Spratt

Nate Quarry vs Pete Sell

Chris Leben vs Patrick Cote

Drew Fickett vs Josh Neer

 

- Thumbs up (barely)

 

August 20th - 10:00 pm et

UFC 54: Boiling Point - pay per view

 

(Thumbs up)

 

So far, a very successful month of MMA. I'm lovin it up.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

My "Snowman" comment is derived from Chuck's love of the columbian baby powder, not because of anything Tito said.

[Guest CurryMan]

When is the Pride show on in the States? Is it shown this weekend or is over a week delayed?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's this Sunday.