Chris Masters isn't THAT bad, is he?

[Guest Fishyswa]

"Your answer missed a key point in "at this level of wrestling". If Masters were working the way he does at an indy show, I probably would have praised him for his basics - since that sort of thing is lost on many indy workers. But this is the big time"

 

Eh, aside from calling themselves that and having more money than anyone else I really don't see them as the major leagues anymore. It's like if MLB was consumed by the 'roids scandal, name after name suspended, they contract a few teams, the game is at it's worst, do you still have to call it the big time just because they play on a bigger field or get paid more? Sure in theory it's the big time, but when the roster is mostly young talent coming up, I really don't expect that kind of standard.

 

"- I don't accept that, and neither should anyone else (that has an ounce of self-respect as a wrestling fan)."

 

I don't see why a person should tie in any kind of self respect with being a fan of something. If you like it you like it, you don't you don't, it's a luxury to be enjoyed by those who can, not a burden for those who desire higher quality.

 

"I don't care if he's inexperienced, green, "not quite there yet", or however you want to explain his inability to produce anything worth seeing in or out of the ring, who the fuck watches the WWE to see someone go from rookie suck to experienced suck?"

 

Anyone who's been watching for the last 3 years and continues to do so. WWE has fans who watch regardless, why, I don't know, but by now they should know what to expect.

 

"I don't. I expect a certain level of ability, if I don't get it, then I don't care if it's his first day wrestling, the only thing I consider in this matter is the end-results."

 

And you should, but if it's clear he's not there, no point watching. If you have no problem watching through some guys learning period, watch away.

[Vyce 0]

To revisit something cabbageboy said: while I agree that there is something to seeing a guy come up from the farm leagues, and slowly build his way towards the top, I personally wouldn't resent a guy who gets a big push early on, so long as they're actually quite talented. That hasn't been the WWE MO, though. Masters, Carlito......no. They're too poor in the ring to justify their current level.

 

To be honest, and there will be those who disagree with me, but I still don't think Orton's push last year was justified, other than for reasons that he was over. Because I still don't see where Orton is a solid worker. He seems better, in some regards, than Cena, but is that really saying a whole lot?

[The Czech Republic 0]

Well good for you. I'm not saying you shouldn't enjoy the product. If you do, good for you. I just don't see how anyone who is a fan of the in-ring product and is a fan of what wrestling should be about WOULD enjoy the current product and the current... "talents".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

That's pretty elitist

Yeah well, you knew what you were getting into.

[cabbageboy 0]

What I mean is, a guy has to pay the dues. On the Greatest Stars of the 80s DVD Orndorff had a great quote: "Pay your dues and learn your craft."

 

There is a reason why guys in their 20s haven't usually been given world titles. They are green, inexperienced, and haven't paid the dues. Ever since Lesnar it seems WWE flat out wants to find some green rookie, put the world title on him (or push him beyond what he's ready for or what the fans accept). I said it at the time it was a terrible decision to shoot their load with Lesnar simply because at that age most fans realized he hadn't paid his dues and giving him so much at a young age gave him nowhere to go but down. Same thing happened with Orton although on a more massive scale that I don't think his career has really recovered from--and may never recover from.

 

For instance, look at how successful Austin's title chase and win were. One key reason is that he had flat out paid his dues and learned his craft...he'd been shit on by WCW and Bischoff, he'd worked his way up the WWF ranks, and now by God he was READY for that heavyweight title. On other levels guys like Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had paid their dues in tag teams and worked their way up for years, worked the IC division and the midcard, and then finally got the push. Hell, even Hogan spent about 4-5 years finding a character that fans connected with before getting the title (although Gagne's inept booking in the AWA delayed that). Hell, I watched Hogan vs. Ted DiBiase from a 1979 MSG show and lord did they suck back then, with Hogan doing a dreary heel Narcissist act and DiBiase as a bland face. Then I saw a 1988 Boston Gardens match and it was stunning to see how much those guys had improved, how much more at home they were in their later personas, the effortless command of the crowd.

 

My point is, someone like Chris Masters isn't that bad for this stage of his career. Hell, if he can get to where Luger was at his peak then he'll be doing well for himself. But right now it's blatant to the fans that he really hasn't paid any dues, hasn't mastered his craft, and doesn't deserve any sort of major spot on Raw.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Masters could work a lick, that would help. I think the fans would be more forgiving of a guy who hasn't, in their eyes, paid his dues, if the guy was a great worker, or even a good one.

[cabbageboy 0]

Right. That's why few shitted on Kurt Angle being given the title in 2000. The guy was obviously a world class Olympic athlete and it made total sense that he could come in and dominate in the pros. Also, he had a natural ability to work the mic.

 

The Rock is another example. In fact they used the fact that he was looked at as the Golden Boy during his heel title run in 1998-99...he so obviously hadn't paid his dues that it made him easy to hate, especially going against a grizzled veteran like Foley who had paid more dues than Rocky could ever imagine.

 

One thing Masters has to do is move away from the full nelson. Right now it's the hook that's sorta working for him, but as my friend Ian said after the Michaels match "Masters is never going anywhere until he can put people away with a real move and not a friggin full nelson."

 

On the carry scale I'd say Flair got more out of Carlito on Raw than Michaels got out of Masters....Flair had much less to work with.