Vince/WWE vs. Wrestling New Sites/Net Fans

[2GOLD 0]

Vince is going to do what his senile self wants to do. There is no point even complaining. We are just going to keep getting shitty roid monkeys and angles where Vince can masturbate a goat.

[Guest Fishyswa]

There's REALLY no point complaining when you'll watch it regardless.

[Black Lushus 0]

true...the main reason I keep watching is because I don't want to miss the upward swing the WWE took late 03/early 04 after being dismal for 3 years...of course the latest upswing only lasted so long but still...

[2GOLD 0]

Shelton and RVD is going to be a great Heat tag team. I look forward to that.

[Guest Fishyswa]

Isn't that kind of the problem though, that people watch waiting for stuff to get good? If we didn't watch UNTIL it got good, they'd actually have a guage of what we really want. A promo laced show getting 2.4 and a stacked card promoted for a week getting a 4.0 will open a lot of eyes up quickly.

[Guest JMA]

But he can control the thoughts of any random event fans?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. He can sway their opinions through propaganda and revisionism. They have no access to any other POV and thus can be controlled. The IWC has no such restrictions.

[2GOLD 0]

Isn't that kind of the problem though, that people watch waiting for stuff to get good? If we didn't watch UNTIL it got good, they'd actually have a guage of what we really want. A promo laced show getting 2.4 and a stacked card promoted for a week getting a 4.0 will open a lot of eyes up quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is up to the people with the power to control the ratings. Most of us have no control over the ratings and actually watch because we have hope that maybe eventually someone or something will come along that is enjoyable.

 

Like for me it's....well....that Shelton guy was fun. And HBK has his moments. Cena used to be enjoyable until he became nothing but gay jokes that get old in an extreme hurry. Getting angry at a product IS what people are supposed to do, we don't want to see the WWE cancelled. What good does that do? If everyone who was tired of RAW turned it off and waited on Vince, the show would be gone in a hurry.

[Guest Coffey]

I still follow WWE mainly because old habits are hard to break but I also feel a bit of loyalty. I've been watching WWE (then WWF) for twenty years. I've been watching Raw since it first showed up. It's hard to just stop watching. Someone from this site, especially, should realize that it's more than just a TV show to a lot of fans. It's not as simple as "stop watching," "turn it off," or "change the channel." If you admit that, it's almost like saying you've wasted the last twenty years of your life. At least that's the way I look at it. I've tried to quit watching before. I think the longest I've made it is two to three weeks. Afterall, it's not like I have anything else to do on Monday's.

 

I've watched wrestlers give their life for this business. Be crippled by this business. It would be disrepectful to them and what they gave for me to stop watching because WWE has some shitty writing. Even if the entertainment is low, the bumps and injuries are the same.

 

WWE have went through bad times before. Eventually, they came out of that valley. A lot of us are anticipating that again. Even when the show is bad, there's usually at least something that you can see that'll still entertain you. Even if it's little things. Like, right now, I'm a big fan of Maria and Triple H. Now that it appears as if Styles will be around for awhile, that's another plus.

 

I watch TNA, I watch ROH. I even occasionally watch puroresu. That doesn't give me a good enough reason to stop watching WWE though. It's another promotion, another alternative, although I feel more loyal to them because they've been around for my entire life.

 

Any fucking jobber can come in and say "stop watching." It's not that fucking cut and dry. Besides, if we don't watch anymore, how will we know when it's good again?

[Guest JMA]

Any fucking jobber can come in and say "stop watching." It's not that fucking cut and dry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agreed. You could also argue that no matter how bad wrestling is there's always a chance it will get better or even become great. It's not like wrestling has never emerged from a shitty period into a great one.

 

Complaining is perfect fine if you want the product to improve. It seems more like a duty to criticize than it is to just blindly follow.

[2GOLD 0]

My problem with the WWE is when someone comes along who I enjoy and who gives me hope for the business (Cena when he started his gimmick was solid, Christian when he grew a personality, Jericho and Shelton in general), then someone who writes for the show comes along and destroys them. Or they get sold down the river to push someone I cannot stand.

 

Batista, love his work but he's on Friday night which I barely remember or just never get to watch. Cena, his raps have become nothing but gay jokes and his finisher is nothing more than a fireman carry now. Shelton...well christ, I should have known better when I realized what color he was. Christian quit, sounded like he had enough. Jericho, he gone.

 

Worlds Greatest Tag Team: disbanded and one fired

Angle: too much like Lex Luther now, enjoyed 3 I's Angle more

 

Seems when something good comes, it gets flushed for something horrible. Like Chris Masters, or Carlito, or Vince doing a 12 minute boring skit. All the WWE needs is writers, that's it. One minor little tick and it's great again. Just allow wrestlers to do their own promos, the get themselves over and when they do just run with it. Those minor little things and we are back to enjoyable.

[nl5xsk1 0]

I think he cares more about Internet fans than some random mark. The Internet is a way for fans to communicate on a global scale with no restrictions on what they can and can't say. They can insult and praise whoever or whatever they want and sometimes even affect the casual fan's opinions. Basically, Vince doesn't like the IWC because he can't control it. Yet I don't think he'll book any major angles solely for the reason of annoying the IWC--he's not sitting in his office thinking up ways to enrage us, for example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

RE: the bolded part ... Vince cares about the people putting money in his pockets ... and in my opinion marks are more likely to buy stupid merchandise & PPVs (regardless of how piss-poor they look to smarks).

 

Having said that, though, I do agree that he's not sitting around looking at ways to piss off the IWC. He's not overly concerned to pandering to us, but I don't think he cares enough about us to go out of his way to bother us.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Any fucking jobber can come in and say "stop watching." It's not that fucking cut and dry. Besides, if we don't watch anymore, how will we know when it's good again?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Umm yeah it is. Some people seems to have success in stopping. Look at the ratings. Some people have less tolerance for crap than you, it seems. Doesn't mean they're a "jobber". Just means they don't want to give Vince the satisfaction of saying "Haha, they still watch! It must be working!" Simple as that.

[hyperchord24 0]

He does care, however, about people who disagree with him and voice their opinions in a very public place.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"Yes. He can sway their opinions through propaganda and revisionism. They have no access to any other POV and thus can be controlled. The IWC has no such restrictions."

 

So at least 90% of live fans are just hicks with no form of communication who only leave the house for a WWE show? Get real. You give the man WAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.

 

"That is up to the people with the power to control the ratings. Most of us have no control over the ratings and actually watch because we have hope that maybe eventually someone or something will come along that is enjoyable."

 

People who watch the show control the ratings. Do you honestly think if everyone who's ever been to this or another internet forum stopped watching, the rating wouldn't drop more than .5? They'd go from around 4.0 to lucky to break 2.0, if not more.

 

 

Bottom line, loyalty or not, we're talking about a TV show. A product you have a choice to consume or not. If it's not to your liking, why consume it? Do you eat horrible fruit from a fruit-stand because it's the closest one to your house? No. I don't see how it's any different with the WWE. They offer us a product to accept or decline, I don't see how blindly following comes into play.

[Guest JMA]

I think he cares more about Internet fans than some random mark. The Internet is a way for fans to communicate on a global scale with no restrictions on what they can and can't say. They can insult and praise whoever or whatever they want and sometimes even affect the casual fan's opinions. Basically, Vince doesn't like the IWC because he can't control it. Yet I don't think he'll book any major angles solely for the reason of annoying the IWC--he's not sitting in his office thinking up ways to enrage us, for example.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

RE: the bolded part ... Vince cares about the people putting money in his pockets ... and in my opinion marks are more likely to buy stupid merchandise & PPVs (regardless of how piss-poor they look to smarks).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, the marks are easier to control. Vince knows he can get their money easily so he doesn't have to care about them as much. The reason he cares more about the IWC is because they can actively affect the marks or even get them to turn into smarks. When they start looking at wrestling objectively, they won't be so quick to accept everything WWE says.

[Guest Fishyswa]

^You're basically saying "we're smart, they're dumb, so he fears us", which is up there with some of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Just stop and listen to what you're saying for a second.

[hyperchord24 0]

Bottom line, loyalty or not, we're talking about a TV show. A product you have a choice to consume or not. If it's not to your liking, why consume it? Do you eat horrible fruit from a fruit-stand because it's the closest one to your house? No. I don't see how it's any different with the WWE. They offer us a product to accept or decline, I don't see how blindly following comes into play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You do if your diet MUST include fruit and you're lazy or some how disabled (when you get old you'll understand)

 

I don't think you understand the passion the IWC has for this business.

 

Don't over simplify

[Guest Fishyswa]

Alright so explain to me how you MUST consume WWE, or otherwise die, and I'll fully accept that logic.

[Guest JMA]

So at least 90% of live fans are just hicks with no form of communication who only leave the house for a WWE show? Get real. You give the man WAAAAAAAAAY too much credit.

They have the communication, they just have no desire to use it. They just aren't concerned about the IWC if they're even aware of it.

 

Bottom line, loyalty or not, we're talking about a TV show. A product you have a choice to consume or not. If it's not to your liking, why consume it? Do you eat horrible fruit from a fruit-stand because it's the closest one to your house? No. I don't see how it's any different with the WWE. They offer us a product to accept or decline, I don't see how blindly following comes into play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People consume it because they hold on to hope that it will change (which it will). The people that criticize it to improve the company should be commended for their actions. Those that criticize just for the sake of it should not. If you don't like something you have every right in the world to try to change it (within reasonable means).

[hyperchord24 0]

Everyone buys gas, right?

 

Unhappy with the price of gas? Okay. Stop buying gas and inturn stop driving.

 

No we don't NEED gas (technically)

[Guest JMA]

^You're basically saying "we're smart, they're dumb, so he fears us", which is up there with some of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Just stop and listen to what you're saying for a second.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that they don't want to look deeper into wrestling so all they get is the POV on TV. It has nothing to do with elitism and it never will. If someone is only familiar with one view it's harder for them to hold a different one.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Exactly. I don't drive because I don't agree with gas prices. Sounds like I'm the most logical of the bunch.

[hyperchord24 0]

Exactly. I don't drive because I don't agree with gas prices. Sounds like I'm the most logical of the bunch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right you are!

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

And I laugh at the people who watch just to wait for the product to get good. It is not going to happen if you keep watching because Vince will look at the ratings and whatnot, and go "Well we didn't lose viewers this week. Guess we can continue with this approach." Now if people started to stop watching WWE, then that would force Vince to go "Oh wait. Maybe we shouldn't do this..." How this logic is lost on a lot of people, I don't know. But hey, if acting like a jilted wife suits you...

[Guest JMA]

And I laugh at the people who watch just to wait for the product to get good. It is not going to happen if you keep watching because Vince will look at the ratings and whatnot, and go "Well we didn't lose viewers this week. Guess we can continue with this approach." Now if people started to stop watching WWE, then that would force Vince to go "Oh wait. Maybe we shouldn't do this..." How this logic is lost on a lot of people, I don't know. But hey, if acting like a jilted wife suits you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hope lies with the marks. Only they can change things. Right now the IWC is still too small to create any lasting change.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

[Guest Coffey]

And I laugh at the people who watch just to wait for the product to get good. It is not going to happen if you keep watching because Vince will look at the ratings and whatnot, and go "Well we didn't lose viewers this week. Guess we can continue with this approach." Now if people started to stop watching WWE, then that would force Vince to go "Oh wait. Maybe we shouldn't do this..." How this logic is lost on a lot of people, I don't know. But hey, if acting like a jilted wife suits you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a Neilson box....

[Guest Fishyswa]

Ok but our entire society is based around the use of gas, if everyone stopped using it overnight, there'd be chaos. So if you can explain how society would go into chaos if we stopped watching wrestling, I'll buy it. There just is no comparison here.

 

"They have the communication, they just have no desire to use it. They just aren't concerned about the IWC if they're even aware of it."

 

Forget the internet, what about friends? Do these people not have friends? Phones? Family? A community with differeing opinions? You make it seem like these people are total shut-in's that Vince controls with his brain-washing TV show. There isn't some great social divide between us and them just because we log onto the internet daily.

 

"People consume it because they hold on to hope that it will change (which it will)."

 

Yeah because everyone here just sounds so full of hope. When any other product stops working, it's stops being consumed. If the point of it is to entertain you, and it fails to do so, why keep consuming?

 

"The people that criticize it to improve the company should be commended for their actions."

 

And now we've reached dellusional.

 

"Those that criticize just for the sake of it should not. If you don't like something you have every right in the world to try to change it (within reasonable means)."

 

SEND THEM LETTERS. People come here to bitch to other people that have no impact on anything they'll see. You want to change the product, go to the product. Make them actually believe you don't like the show by not watching.

[Guest JMA]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did that myself and it actually did work. I missed both Katie Vick and the Al Wilson angle. But it didn't really help in the long run. Things went back to being shitty in record time.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

And I laugh at the people who watch just to wait for the product to get good. It is not going to happen if you keep watching because Vince will look at the ratings and whatnot, and go "Well we didn't lose viewers this week. Guess we can continue with this approach." Now if people started to stop watching WWE, then that would force Vince to go "Oh wait. Maybe we shouldn't do this..." How this logic is lost on a lot of people, I don't know. But hey, if acting like a jilted wife suits you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a Neilson box....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Get one. The message sent by not watching is a lot stronger than the message sent by watching and then going on the forums and complaining about it.