Vince/WWE vs. Wrestling New Sites/Net Fans

[Guest Coffey]

And I laugh at the people who watch just to wait for the product to get good. It is not going to happen if you keep watching because Vince will look at the ratings and whatnot, and go "Well we didn't lose viewers this week. Guess we can continue with this approach." Now if people started to stop watching WWE, then that would force Vince to go "Oh wait. Maybe we shouldn't do this..." How this logic is lost on a lot of people, I don't know. But hey, if acting like a jilted wife suits you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a Neilson box....

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Get one. The message sent by not watching is a lot stronger than the message sent by watching and then going on the forums and complaining about it.

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So you're telling me I should get a Neilson Box just so I can not watch Raw? You're going on my ignore list because you're an idiot.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did that myself and it actually did work. I missed both Katie Vick and the Al Wilson angle. But it didn't really help in the long run. Things went back to being shitty in record time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stick to the hiatus longer. I've not watched since June and my health is a lot better for it.

[Guest Fishyswa]

"That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that they don't want to look deeper into wrestling so all they get is the POV on TV."

 

Why should they? It's a TV show, do you go watch tapes of old Jason Bateman movies after you see him on Arrested Development because you like what he does on it? No, you watch Arrested Development.

 

"It has nothing to do with elitism and it never will. If someone is only familiar with one view it's harder for them to hold a different one."

 

So they're ignorant? What exactly are you trying to say, in a nutshell? It's sounded like nothing but "we're better than them" so far.

 

"I don't have a Neilson box...."

 

And? That makes you exempt from logic? If everyone who was displeased with the product stopped watching it, the impact would be massive, especially if you guys think so many people are.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes I'm the idiot for whining about the quality of wrestling THEN just tuning in to Raw every Monday at 9 pm.... oh wait... no that's you.

[Guest Coffey]

See, the way I see it, the biggest problem is that when you don't watch the WWE product, you don't bring anything to this forum. So, if you're not watching, you shouldn't be here talking about it. I'm sticking to that.

[Guest JMA]

Forget the internet, what about friends? Do these people not have friends? Phones? Family? A community with differeing opinions? You make it seem like these people are total shut-in's that Vince controls with his brain-washing TV show. There isn't some great social divide between us and them just because we log onto the internet daily.

As I've said, they know and have the access. They don't WANT to know more. They just want to watch and not to question things. It's not important to them.

 

Yeah because everyone here just sounds so full of hope. When any other product stops working, it's stops being consumed. If the point of it is to entertain you, and it fails to do so, why keep consuming?

Because if it entertained you in the past then why can't it in the future. It's a fact that WWE has been in shitty periods only to emerge from them into a great period.

 

SEND THEM LETTERS. People come here to bitch to other people that have no impact on anything they'll see. You want to change the product, go to the product. Make them actually believe you don't like the show by not watching.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't watch when something doesn't entertain me on the show. I've quit watching wrestling several times because of this. I completely avoid watching SmackDown!. Yet I don't think the people that still do watch and complain should be criticized.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I'm not talking about Raw. I'm talking about the stupidness of you guys that just sit around and cry about how WWE has declined in quality, then go eat their shit. It's very fucking counterproductive. Show me where I said anything about what's going on with the product? I haven't.

[Guest JMA]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did that myself and it actually did work. I missed both Katie Vick and the Al Wilson angle. But it didn't really help in the long run. Things went back to being shitty in record time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stick to the hiatus longer. I've not watched since June and my health is a lot better for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll probably have to soon. I haven't watched SmackDown! regularly since around the time JBL won the belt. Not watching Raw is harder, though.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

However, you know what? You guys can sit with your thumbs up your asses for all you want. I know I'm a lot happier for not watching the current product and sticking with the wrestling that does rock.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did that myself and it actually did work. I missed both Katie Vick and the Al Wilson angle. But it didn't really help in the long run. Things went back to being shitty in record time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stick to the hiatus longer. I've not watched since June and my health is a lot better for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll probably have to soon. I haven't watched SmackDown! regularly since around the time JBL won the belt. Not watching Raw is harder, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah the first month or so is hard. But it gets easier once you find other stuff on Mondays that makes you eventually forget about Raw.

[Guest JMA]

Why should they? It's a TV show, do you go watch tapes of old Jason Bateman movies after you see him on Arrested Development because you like what he does on it? No, you watch Arrested Development.

Because people have a right to want shows that they like not to suck. If you don't like an episode of a show you should complain about it.

 

So they're ignorant? What exactly are you trying to say, in a nutshell? It's sounded like nothing but "we're better than them" so far.

I can't control how things sound, but it wasn't my intent. They don't know anything but WWE's POV, though. They can't question things when WWE revises their history. Should they not question this and just accept it.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The problem is that there are still little things that I do like in WWE. That and alternatives aren't readily available to me. Sure TNA is on TV now, but that's only a small fix of one hour a week and the local indies here suck.

[Guest JMA]

Yes it's logical to depend on other people. Here's a novel concept: Stop watching, but stay in touch with the product. When you hear it's getting a lot better, THEN YOU CAN WATCH AGAIN! Shocking I know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did that myself and it actually did work. I missed both Katie Vick and the Al Wilson angle. But it didn't really help in the long run. Things went back to being shitty in record time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stick to the hiatus longer. I've not watched since June and my health is a lot better for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll probably have to soon. I haven't watched SmackDown! regularly since around the time JBL won the belt. Not watching Raw is harder, though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yeah the first month or so is hard. But it gets easier once you find other stuff on Mondays that makes you eventually forget about Raw.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually had a lot of success not watching by avoiding television entirely on Mondays. I'd just go some place where there wasn't a television. I usually return to watching around a WrestleMania.

[Guest JMA]

The problem is that there are still little things that I do like in WWE.  That and alternatives aren't readily available to me.  Sure TNA is on TV now, but that's only a small fix of one hour a week and the local indies here suck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The indies suck here, too. The wrestlers have names like "McNasty."

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

I think Vince's problem with the internet is that most of it is people who are fans of wrestling but have no experience in the business, and everyone is basically acting like they know how to run the WWE better than Vince ever could. And the people who run the news sites who do have knowledge/experience in the business, he hates them too because they make his job harder by spoiling stuff. Wrestling needs the "shock" factor and with the internet where you can find out whats going to happen a lot of the time in advance, most of that is taken away.

 

The problem is however, that these same people on the net are probably the core demographic for his product, but by going out of his way to do the opposite of what the net fans want, not only is he alienating his core group of fans, but he's also probably not appealing to the other group of people who don't go around talking about wrestling on the net even though they do watch the shows. The only person he seems to want to appeal to is himself and his huge ego.

[Jericholic82 0]

Hey I always watch wwe programming, not because it's always good, but because its just something I do. Its almost a habit formed in my childhood. I enjoy pro wrestling and have been watching wwf/e for 15 years so I stick around. Sure some stuff bothers me, but if it really bothered me that much, I'd stop watching.

 

Vince doesn't really understand the IWC. Think about it in an outsiders POV. We sit here all day discussing a scripted tv show basically. It's just the same as if we were talking about star wars or any tv show or what have you. sure he's going to worry cuz he has been able to control his audience for the most part for over 20 years. The net does wield a lot of power these days. Hell we are very rarely surprised at anything that happens cuz most of it winds up online beforehand and the only things that surprise us are the things that happen on days when we dont go online.

 

I don't think Vince should be spiteful, but I kind of understand why he is obssesed with the net and how to deal with it.

[Guest JMA]

Here's a hypothetical question for everyone: What if Vince did start to respect the IWC? Would there be any significant changes to programming or would new angles and gimmicks constantly be dropped because of an initial negative reaction?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

I'm not talking about Raw. I'm talking about the stupidness of you guys that just sit around and cry about how WWE has declined in quality, then go eat their shit. It's very fucking counterproductive. Show me where I said anything about what's going on with the product? I haven't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey we're on a message board where we have every right to come and complain about the product. We don't do it because we think it's going to cause some earth shattering change. We do it to vent just like you would vent to your friend about work or something. We do it because we've met people with common ideas about the product on here and it's fun to see what they have to say.

 

Do you think we're dreading every finger fall on the keyboard to type out this stuff? I enjoy a good vent. This isn't torture to me. If I didn't want to come here and do a little chatting and a little complaining I wouldn't come here.

 

There are still things and wrestlers I enjoy in WWE so I'll continue to watch all I want, but I'll also call a spade a spade. No one forces me to watch WWE. I don't even watch every week. Hell I only caught maybe 30 minutes of RAW this week. But I'm not going to avoid it all together, because honestly every time I tune out I miss something, and that's not an exaggeration. Not something incredibly big though, but it's the little things I like sometimes. Things that after hearing about them if I missed them I think, "Hmmm I'd have liked to have seen that."

 

Why does everyone have to rain on our venting parade? If you're not even watching the product why are you worrying about the people who are? Let us do our thing.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

As a final point, I'd like to add this:

 

You guys talk about venting about Raw. That's fine. I won't bother raining on that anymore. I notice people here compare watching and complaining about Raw to watching a TV show or whatever and then venting about it. Well, here's a point: Say you're a Simpsons fan, and the Simpsons had a long string of really really HORRIBLE episodes, would you guys continue to watch Simpsons, in hopes of it getting better? If the answer is yes, then I won't ever bother you guys about this again. If the answer is no, then why not apply that logic to Raw and WWE as well?

[MarvinisaLunatic 0]

As a final point, I'd like to add this:

 

You guys talk about venting about Raw. That's fine. I won't bother raining on that anymore. I notice people here compare watching and complaining about Raw to watching a TV show or whatever and then venting about it. Well, here's a point: Say you're a Simpsons fan, and the Simpsons had a long string of really really HORRIBLE episodes, would you guys continue to watch Simpsons, in hopes of it getting better? If the answer is yes, then I won't ever bother you guys about this again. If the answer is no, then why not apply that logic to Raw and WWE as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Funny you should mention the Simpsons, because a lot of people dont find it as funny as it used to be, but some of them still watch.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Unfortunately the worst episode of Simpsons still trumps the worst episode of Raw. Though I get your point.

[Gary Floyd 0]

If Vince really care what the IWC thinks, then he is the most pathetic man on Earth. That's a huge if though, and I highly doubt he's that pathetic. He has a company to run, so I doubt he cares what a tiny handful of people think of his product.

[ZGangsta 0]

Not carring about the internet fans is going to bite them in the ass big time.

 

People completely underestimate the power of the internet in these things. The movie industry gets it. Look at all the movies that keep getting Greenlit because they have 'enthusiast' (read: net geek) cred. I mean, we would have never got that version of the latest Batman movie or Sin City if the executives wern't listening to those people. For God's sake, the last Superman script and production(before the one currently being filmed) got completely torpedoed by essentially Aint-it-cool-news alone.

Entertainment industries pay TONS of attention to their entusiast markets and spend millions catering to them.

The IWC is the enthusiast market of the wrestling industy. Why doesn't the E listen to them like the other industries.

[BruiserKC 0]

Vince should care about what the IWC does think...not all the time but sometimes. We're watching...we're paying attention, we actually care enough about the product to comment on it. He either can't or won't realize that since he's so convinced that whatever we say is so negative. The people that he's chasing...the casual fan...aren't paying attention to RAW to talk about it the next morning around the water cooler.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Fuck yall, Vince should care about what *I* think.

[justcoz 0]

Here's a hypothetical question for everyone: What if Vince did start to respect the IWC? Would there be any significant changes to programming or would new angles and gimmicks constantly be dropped because of an initial negative reaction?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Vince and company used the IWC very much when they were on the losing end of the Monday night wars. McMahon and even Vince Russo were available for AOL chats on several occassions and answered questions from the IWC. Imagine Vince sitting down and fielding questions from the IWC today?

[Silence 0]

Imagine Vince sitting down and fielding questions from the IWC today?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Smark:"Vince, Carlito sucks. Send him back down to OVW so he can learn how to wrestle."

Vince:"You want the Carlito push to continue? That's a hell of an idea!"

[cameron chaos 0]

Anyone that feels obligated in any way to a TV PROGRAM of all things really needs to think about what kind of social life and priorities they have. It's not like a friend you have known for a long time who falls on hard times, IT'S A TV PROGRAM RAN BY A MULTI MILLIONAIRE WHO OWNS A INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNISED COMPANY. If the WWE don't even feel obligated to provide pensions for the people who literally allow themselves to be knocked about 4-5 days a week, why does any of you feel obligated to them?

 

Any fucking jobber can come in and say "stop watching." It's not that fucking cut and dry

 

Referring to actual people who aren't "enhancement talent" as "jobbers" in real life is sad to begin with. The fact you find it so hard to find anything else better to do with your time or feel so drawn to such a poor quality product is also sad. Turn off the TV, change the channel, go bowling or read a book. You should be smarter than to just have a Pavlovian response of "it's Monday night, wrestling time" when you are expecting to be disappointed. It's funny in a way that you abstain from drugs and alcohol but are instead addicted to WWE, unable to turn away no matter how matter it is. I guess everyone does have their vices. If something is bad, people acknowledge it is bad, you have to defend it because it is so bad but still tune in regardless it either means you are a masochist or simply don't care about the quality of the product as long as it is the same product. I would prefer a bootleg packed with extras to a bootleg recorded in a cinema much like I'd prefer a tasty and filling meal to a week old sandwich simply because I have certain standards in terms of quality. In the same way, when something insults my intelligence or offends me, I'd rather walk away than stick around to be patronised and insulted. Maybe it's a self esteem issue, I dunno, but when I have the choice of good quality or bad quality, I know which I'll go for.

 

Comparing the Simpsons to WWE is not completely valid. While the Simpsons has declined in quality they hadn't done anything up until the recent DVD slipcase debacle that was evidently done to spite fans and they've acknowledged in the show when they've fucked up in later episodes, so it can't be said they don't try listen to their fanbase and are willing to make light of their own screwups.

[hyperchord24 0]

Enough of this "turn off the TV" crap. It's been discussed ad nauseum. If you don't like the fact that we still watch a crappy show and complain about it, then stop commenting on us.

[cameron chaos 0]

Enough of this "turn off the TV" crap.  It's been discussed ad nauseum.  If you don't like the fact that we still watch a crappy show and complain about it, then stop commenting on us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It defies all logic though. That's what's the strangest part. Even rats stop performing conditioned behaviour over time if not rewarded for their efforts. That evolved human beings are seemingly less capable of logical thought than rats is mindboggling.