Raw comments

[Guest godthedog]

In fact...why don't you tell me all about his shitty mic work now.  

 

rvd IS shitty on the mic.  his voice tonight was completely monotone, it literally sounded like he just didn't give a shit.

 

my thoughts on the main event: yeah, good for a tv match, but it should've been so much better.  i blame eddy for this more than rvd, cause...well, frankly, i'm kind of used to seeing rvd blow spots in a ladder match.  they worked hard & almost killed themselves, but they were extremely sloppy tonight.

 

and if they were gonna turn benoit, why didn't they just wait till smackdown?  don't they get it that this turning-in-your-hometown shit doesn't work?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I never said RVD was a great or even a good wrestler.

 

But he can do what he does very well...it gets him over...makes him beleivable as an upper midcard guy with a high potential for Main Event credability...and his matches are always watchable.

 

There isn't many people you can say that about.

[Guest]

Guys, the point is that Rob has had to adapt, and adapted he has. He has become a more fluid wrestler and has stopped being a spotty wrestler (most of the time). To say he sucks by leaps and bounds (which it sounds like to me from a few of you) is stupid and a retarded comment. Now...the match.

 

I didn't have time earlier to give my entire review on how I thought it went. It was obvious that the big finish was RVD hitting the Five-Star off the ladder, and then having them battle up the ladder since they were both knocked out and then RVD would win...but since the WWE can't get some actual ladders that would hold up for them, it wasn't to be. Don't hate the player, hate the objects holding them back, like the ladders. RVD and Guerrero did a helluva job, considering BOTH ladders busted on them, some jackass fan did a run-in, and they were on TV, so the big spots needed to be toned down. It's a ***1/2 affair on my part. Just as good as their first match at Backlash, but not as good as their match at Judgement Day.

 

Big Tim has SPOKEN!

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The Main Event was really good, ***3/5 or something.  Not very good, but better than good... making it really good... I dug A TON of spots in it, the flipover powerbomb, the STIFF elbow, the fun flips and ladder bumps.  The was was Eddie being a fucking ring general and calling audibles and making the match flow MUCH better than it's mistakes should have let it.

 

This was not a good sign for things to come in the future of Chris Benoit.  If the Wwf wants to build new superstars, new main eventers, new faces, then Chris Benoits return should have been HUGE.  There are a few ways you can make a Mid-Carder become a Headliner.  One is retiring a legends, the other is a big fucking musical packages over-exaggerating the importance of the wrestler in question.  Benoit has the luxury of neither.  His 'return' was just to further Austin's storyline.

 

Lets pretend that Eddie vs. Austin is up for sometime in the near future.  Benoit is at his side, and they build up the Austin/Benoit program in the meanwhile.  So after Austin goes over Eddie, do you think Benoit is going over Austin?  Come on, Austin has been on the downswing lately, any win that Benoit will get will mean one thing... Dick all.

 

Lets say that Benoit wins his feud with Austin, who is next?  HHH as world champ?  You think benoit is going to win THAT feud?  Benoit... Is...Screwed.  And that leaves a very sour taste in my mouth after MARKING OUT LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER at his entrance.

[Guest]

I'd just like to say you are all a bunch of pessimistic motherfuckers.

[Guest]

Sorry beating Austin has and always will mean something. Unlike HHH you get a rub just by feuding with Austin. Austin made Angle look like superman during their feud last summer. At Summerslam Angle kicked out of three stunners. Austin is much more giving than HHH ever has been or will be.

[Guest justcoz]

For people to be sitting here saying RVD vs. Guererro was "alright but nothing special" when these two guys damn near killed each other and abused their bodies for the sake of our free channel surfing Monday night entertainment is kind of a sad statement on the ring work expectations people have today.  This is one of the reasons why I don't see anything wrong for 15,000 people popping huge for Hogan's boot to the face and legdrop because maybe it will make something like tonight's ladder match look a little more special.

 

Tonight's match was awesome and both RVD and Eddie busted their asses but let's sit and nitpick over blown spots and psychology.  Maybe one of them will sign on to the net tomorrow and read this crap since um... neither will be able to walk around without insane pain come tomorrow morning.

 

Raw was just kind of there up until the main event.  I'm glad Benoit appears to be on Raw.  I'm glad he's a heel because that kind of face pop would only come in Edmonton for him unfortunately.  I'm glad he's alligned with Flair and en route to feuding with Austin.  Raw's main event lineup just got a little prettier tonight.  I would have loved a little Horsemen 4 finger hand gesture by Flair to end the show but there is time for that and rushing a Horsmen reunion in this era of Hulkamania and Dead Man Inc. would look a little desperate.

 

This Booker T/Goldust NWO thing is hilarious.  Booker will be huge once he goes face.  Possibly as huge as the Rock was with his first face turn.  A core group of RVD, Benoit, Eddie, Stone Cold, Booker T and possibly Brock or Raven isn't too shabby.  I'd consider pushing Jeff Hardy before the inevitable retirement time bomb for runs with RVD, Benoit and Eddie.  Matt could hook up with Raven.  Raw could also soon be the home of the returning Mike Awesome and Rhyno by the end of the summer.

 

I was bummed by the Kevin Nash/Goldust confrontation only because I was hoping for some more humor besides Dustin's 4 life hand gestures.  I was hoping he'd throw out a crotch chop also.  It would be funny to see Nash play uptight hetero to Goldust's infactuation with the black and white, Booker T and Big Sexy.

 

And the blown 5 star from the ladder was the result of RVD having trouble setting up the ladder.  He couldn't pull the lock down all the way and I knew once he climbed up the ladder there was going to be a blown spot.  The fan running into the ring was one of those special things which make live wrestling entertaining but I love the idea of saving him for Eddie who he could've either seriously injured.  I sense that RVD and Eddie, given how critical they were of their previous encounters really wanted this one to go down in the books and Eddie would probably love to get his hands on that dude for almost f'n it up.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Benoit... Is...Screwed.  

 

...

 

He's been on TV for a total of perhaps 23 minutes thus far.  Without executing a single wrestling move, or being in ring gear.  I think he's got a ways to go before he's screwed.

[Guest]

You all think too horridly. Raw was really good overall, good matches if short, and the main event was killer. Benoit is not screwed, not yet - let the storyline and the shows continue before you stab them pleeeeease. feh

[Guest Dangerous A]

RVD's match was fine.

 

His style is fine.

 

Now if he can just work on those shitty transitional forearm smashes and come up with some decent looking ones, he'd be set.(at least for my taste)

[Guest]

That ladder match gets my vote for best free TV match of the year, slightly edging out the Angle-Austin #1 contender match from February. And to whomever said that the match's suppposed sub par quality was due to Guerrero must've not noticed that it was he that dictated the flow of the match, letting RVD do all his spots AND working around the ones that RVD blew.

 

(As a side note, here are my picks for the top five matches this year so far [keep in my mind I have not seen the No Way Out and Judgment Day PPVs]:

 

1. Rock-Jericho title match at the Royal Rumble ****1/4

2. Angle-Edge at Backlash ****1/4

3. RVD-Eddy IC ladder match at Raw in May ****

4. Angle-Austin #1 contender match at Raw in February ****

5. RVD/Spike-Eddy/Regal at Raw in April ***1/2)

 

Though it started out slow, I liked the Bubba-Brock match. I'm with JR; I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch either.

 

And, judging from this thread, bps can get really bitchy when someone complains about RVD. Get over it, man.

[Guest Ripper]

Besides the fall off the Ladder for the 5 star(which actually looks believeable in the flow of the match, seeing how RVD and Eddie sold it and went to a alternate ending. BTW, Eddie was too close to the Ladder for a 5 star anyway...I wonder what was going to happen.) and that ass running in, what exactly were these other blown spots???  They wrestled a damn near perfect match in terms of not blowing spots and such.  

 

I found the beganing of the match to be a little TOO slow, but it picked up nicely. Damn fine match and MOTY on free TV so far.

[Guest]

...man, were it not for the blown spots, I'd say last night's ladder match was the best WWF/E match this year. If everything had gone smoothly, I would've given that bad boy ****1/2 stars rather than ****. Still, 4-stars is nothing to sneeze at.

[Guest]

what exactly were these other blown spots

 

RVD fucked up a monkey flip, which JR sold as the damage done to his legs by Eddy. That would've been fine, but a few moments later, RVD did another monkey flip with seemingly little problem. Also, RVD missed what I guess was suppose to be a missle dropkick, and landed on his feet instead, no-selling Guerrero's leg work in the process. I agree with you about the fall off the ladder, though.

[Guest Ripper]

Yeah, on that Monkey Flip, Guerro was going to do the reveral, sit him on the ropes bit at first, but then it looked like they changed their mind... I'll give you that, but it wasn't a blown move in my eyes.  They still got it off, it just looked awkward.  If you are talking about the missle dropkick I think you are, I think it was suppose to be missed.  

 

While I agree that RVD didn't sell the leg through out the match, the leg work in the match only consisted of 2 chairshots and a dropkick.  There wasn't that much focus on the leg for him to sell it like a madman...you know, the way he did in one of thier earlier matches.

[Guest]

While I agree that RVD didn't sell the leg through out the match, the leg work in the match only consisted of 2 chairshots and a dropkick.

 

You're forgetting Guerrero ramming RVD's knee into the ringpost those times. When RVD missed the dropkick, his knee should've buckled on landing. But whatever, that was one HELL of a match. Guerrero is a god.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Well I guess I'am in the minority here, but that ladder match really didn't do nothing for me.  It was better than most of the RVD/Lynn and Sabu messes.  Maybe my rating of **, was a little too low. More like a **1/4.  Which is still very good IMO.  I consider *** to be a match worth watching over and over again.  I consider **** to be perfect.  And I consider ***** to be the best ever.  

 

The match sadly reminded me alot of RVD's old messes in ECW. There not bad if you fast foward to the highspots.  Though the spots was way better this time, and Eddy added some substance to it and actually out spotted RVD.  There was zero transition, zero logic, zero suspense(which should be a must in a ladder match), zero storytelling.  It was just some cool stuff throw together.   

 

And whoever said we have to like the match, because they beat themselves up, is bullshit.  Balls Mahoney bleeds thimself to death in every match, so I guess that makes them **** affairs.

[Guest]

Things not worth your time:

 

- Tommy Dreamer/Undertaker segment:  I gagged after listening to this... that's right, I couldn't even look at the TV.  This may upset a few people but, Tommy Dreamer is a waste of time.  If they were actually going to let him wrestle against Taker or throw the cup of spit at Taker, then I would say the segment was worth it, but as it is, Tommy Dreamer is nothing but a talentless human dumpster.  Either tell him to stop doing that shit and give him a real push or get him the fuck off of the show.

Actually, speak for yourself. I enjoy Tommy's "gimmick." But in all reality, you know it's not going to last.

 

It goes this way all throughout wrestling (or at least WWE) history. A guy has a ridiculous gimmick to get over, and once he starts getting over and the fans appreciate his own attributes, the gimmick is slowly phased out. Granted, this doesn't work all of the time, but there have been cases.

 

Al Snow doesn't carry around a mannequin head with him anymore, yet he still gets a fairly nice pop.

 

Billy & Chuck were ultra homo when they started hanging out. It's been toned down a lot.

 

What about Mick Foley/Mankind? I think that is a perfect example. He came in, talking nonsense about being locked up as a kid and having his hands crushed, pulling out his hair, etc. Yet eventually that portion of the Mankind character was phased out when the fans started to appreciate Mick/Cactus for who he was and what he did in the ring.

 

I say fuck it. If this gimmick gets Tommy noticed, I could care less if it disgusts people or not. They've given other useless slobs millions of chances over the years, why doesn't Tommy deserve one as well?

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

If you are talking about the missle dropkick I think you are, I think it was suppose to be missed.

It wasn't supposed to be a missile dropkick.  It was that thrust-kick thing he does from the turnbuckle.  Looked to me like Eddie didn't get close enough for RVD to connect.

 

As for Raw overall, for me the show was just average.  I loved the ME and subsequent beat-down on Austin, but the rest of the show didn't do anything special for me.

 

Stuff I liked:

--ladder match

--build-up to Booker's face turn

--Goldust's backstage stuff (maybe he should start calling himself Black-and-WhiteDust?)

 

Stuff I didn't like:

--Hardcore title stuff

--the "Next Big Thing" Brock Lesnar being practically beaten by Buh-Buh

--Brock's punches.  He needs to work on those.

 

Summary:

An blah show, saved by the ME.

[Guest]

With the exception of the Dreamer-Undertaker segment, nothing offended me terribly, and some of the stuff I really liked. This was Raw was far from great, but it was the best one in a long time.

[Guest Ace309]

Here's my feeling on the ladder match.

 

It was an excellent match with a great big finish planned and a great alternate ending improvised. It looked like both Rob and Eddy did a great job calling audibles.

 

The monkey flip -> sit on ropes spot looked weak. RVD undersold the leg damage and the "slam myself onto the ladder" spots in all cases except the commercial break, where both guys WAY oversold the impact. Eddy was too close to the ladder for the Five Star, which made me wonder if it was planned for the ladder to go down.

 

Senton off the ladder, dropkicking the ladder out from under, and SUNSET POWERBOMB OFF THE LADDER~! made the match, as did the extra-stiff shit Eddy was doing to both RVD and the fan (who I thought was Austin at first).

 

I felt it was a ***1/4-***1/2 match when I saw it. I have no experience rating matches, and it was just a gut rating, but I feel like it was an excellent match. They used the ladder well and improvised like champs.

 

Unfortunately, due to the fact that hockey is GOD~!, that and Goldust were the only parts of Raw that I saw.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

"You only get one chance to make a first impression"

 

Let us Compare HHH's and Benoit's returns.

 

HHH - Got a solid month of hype for his return.  Not just with the 'Beautiful Day' montage, but he had a whole ppv dedicated to 'his' vengeance.  His return was a main event level thing, he got a ton of mic time and all that good shit.  It was almost like the second coming of Christ.  They built up his heart and determination which made you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

Benoit - He came out, said it was good to be home... Ok... Benoit was a damn workhorse in his last month before surgery and they are not going to even acknowledge it.  He is a heel, so the Wwf now won't even APPRECIATE it and dare to mention anything of the sort on television.  The best they will do is have Benoit talk about how he could have beaten Austin 3 times and shit.  How will the fans respect Benoit and his work when the Wwf won't?

 

After Return:

 

HHH won the rumble, went to mania, won the title.

 

What the fuck do you think Benoit will do?  Like I said, a feud with Austin.  It WON'T mean anything.  Hell, RVD had a feud with Austin, Tazz had a feud with Austin, Scott Hall had a feud with Austin...What happened to them afterwards?  It may get someone recognized, but benoit is already recognized, he doesn't need it.  He doesn't need a cheap heel win over a fallen star (which Austin is at the moment).  And then he will job to HHH or something.  Wow, great push there.

 

We CAN base what the company thinks of his star power by his return AND we can base if they want to make him into a star based on the glitz and glamour of his return.  It showed that Benoits status and priority on the Wwf's mind is LOW.

 

Benoit... Is... Screwed.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

The ladder match was pretty bad up to the point they went to commercial, but once they got back the wrestlers really turned it on and not only did they salvage what had been a trainwreck up to that point, they produced a very nice match. The clean finish was pretty good

[Guest]

If they continued the RVD/Austin fued, like I wish they would have, RVD would be champ by now.

 

By the way, Triple H's comeback did nothing but hurt him.

[Guest]

Argh. Can't we have a thread without the usual Triple H bashing? It's old, people. Quit your whining. I don't like him, either, but I feel no need to bitch about it constantly.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

you say that now...but if he is the one to main event KOTR (and there is NO reason that he should...but hey...) you'll be back.

[Guest]

Well, since Steph and Vince write both shows, they can bury or push whoever they want.

 

KOTR Main Event: HHH vs Taker

[Guest]

you say that now...but if he is the one to main event KOTR (and there is NO reason that he should...but hey...) you'll be back.

 

Is that addressed to me? If so, I'm resigned to the fact that it will be HHH-Taker at King of the Ring. Anything else will be a pleasant surprise.

 

If that isn't addressed to me, then, um...nevermind.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Benoit... Is... Screwed.

 

You say that again, and I'm still a bit confused.  I know you think Austin is a has-been and/or falling star, but how would you propose they handle Benoit's return?  Poising him for a program with the Raw brand's top face seems like a reasonable start to me.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I am assuming the 'hhh bashing' came from my post.  That was in no way a HHH bashing post.  It was just showing how the Wwf treats its 'Superstars'.  Austin got a big return, Rock got a big return, and HHH got the biggest of them all.  HHH needed that inflated importance to improve his legacy.  Rock and Austin are already secured in wrestlings HOF, which the jury is still out on HHH.  He was the bridesmaid, never the bride..that is until the Wwf gave him the comeback of all comebacks.  

 

The only 'damage' done was by HHH's own physical ability and it not living up to the standards that the hype surrounding him warranted.