Top 100 Boxers ever

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Heres Bert Sugar's list...hard to argue as the guy (as obnoxiously pretentious as he can be) knows his shit. Personally I think See Pea Whitaker is one of the ten best ever and its missing some great modern-day fighters (Barerra, Morales, De La Hoya).

 

1. Ray Robinson

2. Henry Armstrong

3. Willie Pep

4. Joe Louis

5. Harry Greb

6. Benny Leonard

7. Muhammad Ali

8. Roberto Duran

9. Jack Dempsey

10.Jack Johnson

11.Mickey Walker

12.Tony Canzoneri

13.Gene Tunney

14.Rocky Marciano

15.Joe Gans

16.Sam Langford

17.Julio Cesar Chavez

18.Jimmy Wilde

19.Stanley Ketchel

20.Barney Ross

21.Jimmy McLarnin

22.Archie Moore

23.Marcel Cerdan

24.Ezzard Charles

25.Sugar Ray Leonard

26.Joe Walcott

27.Jake LaMotta

28.Eder Jofre

29.Emile Griffith

30.Terry McGovern

31.George Foreman

32.Johnny Dundee

33.Jose Napoles

34.Pasqual Perez

35.Billy Conn

36.Ruben Olivares

37.Joe Frazier

38.Tommy Loughran

39.Sandy Saddler

40.Kid McCoy

41.Abe Attell

42.Evander Holyfield

43.George Dixon

44.Maxie Rosenbloom

45.Larry Holmes

46.Ted Kid Lewis

47.Marvin Hagler

48.Pernell Whitaker

49.Carlos Zarate

50.Thomas Hearns

51.Battling Nelson

52.Beau Jack

53.Ricardo Lopez

54.John L. Sullivan

55.Carlos Monzon

56.Alexis Arguello

57.Carmen Basilio

58.Pete Herman

59.Charley Burley

60.Ike Williams

61.Kid Gavilan

62.Jack Britton

63.Dick Tiger

64.Pancho Villa

65.Panama Al Brown

66.Bob Fitzsimmons

67.Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

68.Tiger Flowers

69.James J. Corbett

70.Tony Zale

71.Tommy Ryan

72.Georges Carpantier

73.Sonny Liston

74.Kid McCoy

75.Bob Foster

76.Freddie Welsh

77.Joe Jeanette

78.Jim Driscoll

79.Jersey Joe Walcott

80.Peter Jackson

81.Ad Wolgast

82.Nonpareil Jack Dempsey

83.Manuel Ortiz

84.James J. Jeffries

85.Salvador Sanchez

86.Jimmy Barry

87.Carlos Ortiz

88.Roy Jones Jr.

89.Wilfredo Gomez

90.Aaron Pryor

91.Bernard Hopkins

92.Mike Gibbons

93.Jack Delaney

94.Johnny Kilbane

95.Willie Ritchie

96.Wilfred Benitez

97.Packy MacFarland

98.Rocky Graziano

99.Lew Jenkins

100.Mike Tyson

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Bert Sugar's previous top ten, from 1984...

 

1. Robinson

2. Armstrong

3. Harry Greb

4. Jack Dempsey

5. Benny Leonard

6. Joe Louis

7. Mickey Walker

8. Sam Langford

9. Tony Canzoneri

10. Muhammad Ali

 

Roberto Duran cracks the top ten on the new list. Kind of odd to see rankings move around like this, but everyone changes their opinion at some point. It's hard to argue with Robinson and Armstrong at one and two. Ali's moving up three spots is a minor victory. Sugar always hated his style, but he's fighting an uphill battle.

 

Maybe it's me, but I don't see too many real additions to the list in the last twenty years.

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Willie Pep appears to have been the best fighter of the past 20 years.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Like I said, I won't begrudge a guy for changing his mind. Julio Cesar Chavez made the biggest jump, going from non-entity to #17. Other newcomers are George Foreman, Evander Holyfield, Pernell Whitaker, Ricardo Lopez, Roy Jones Jr., Bernard Hopkins and Mike Tyson. Roy Jones at #88 seems much too low.

 

Kid McCoy is listed twice at #40 and #74. Can you double-check that?

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The list comes from this site... http://www.mondoboxe.com/start/modules.php...rticle&sid=3797

 

I havent read the actual book so I dont know what the actual mistake was there. MAybe one of the more recent fighters was at 74?

 

My only complaint is the same as with all the old-timer boxing historians...just because guys foght before Ronald Reagan's election doesnt make them better then everybody of recent times.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

The fact he has Chavez ranked over Pernell Whitaker, makes me not take this list seriously.

 

Bert Sugar is extremely knowledgable about the sport, but his opinions are very strange. He even predicted Roy Jones Jr to knock out Tarver the 3rd fight, and got made a fool of on Stephen A Smith's ESPN show by Boxingtalk.net owner Greg Leon.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The fact he has Chavez ranked over Pernell Whitaker, makes me not take this list seriously.

 

I think there's a legitimate argument. Chavez's record before the Whitaker fight was highly impressive. His greatest successes were at lower weight classes. People forget he rose a weight class to battle Whitaker. It's the same deal with Roberto Duran. Duran lost to many lower ranked fighters, but he's top 20 material based on his lightweight career. And Whitaker's higher than De La Hoya and Felix Trinidad, whom he both lost to. Not that they should be ranked higher. Just noting the problem with judging a ranking based on one fight.

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Roberto Duran had probably the most padded record of any 'legend' in boxing.

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Greg Leon.

 

Scored the Jan7 fight for Zab Judah. He does know everything though.....about providing rimjobs for gentlemen.

[Guest Arnold_OldSchool]

64.Pancho Villa

 

Que?

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He was actually Filipino but took the name of the Mexican revolutionary when he began fighting. He beat the great Jimmy Wilde (who was coming out of retirement) for the flyweight title. He defended for 2 years with what is said to have been a very exciting style. In 1925 he had a wisdom tooth taken out then fouth Jimmy McLarnin in a fight where he took a bad beating around the mouth. Pancho Villa, the fighter, required surgery and died under anasthesia on July 14 1925. Villa the revolutionary died almost 2 years earlier to the day (July 20 1923). In my opinion, he deserves his legendary status as an early pioneer of the smaller weights but his career does not match up to those of Mark Johnson, Erik Morales, or Marco Antonio Barrera a couple weight classes up.

 

Wikipedia appears to disagree with me and says that Pancho Villa died following surgery.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

He was actually Filipino but took the name of the Mexican revolutionary when he began fighting. He beat the great Jimmy Wilde (who was coming out of retirement) for the flyweight title. He defended for 2 years with what is said to have been a very exciting style. In 1925 he had a wisdom tooth taken out then fouth Jimmy McLarnin in a fight where he took a bad beating around the mouth. Pancho Villa, the fighter, required surgery and died under anasthesia on July 14 1925. Villa the revolutionary died almost 2 years earlier to the day (July 20 1923). In my opinion, he deserves his legendary status as an early pioneer of the smaller weights but his career does not match up to those of Mark Johnson, Erik Morales, or Marco Antonio Barrera a couple weight classes up.

 

Wikipedia appears to disagree with me and says that Pancho Villa died following surgery.

The Boxing Register, the IBHOF's official reference book, says Villa visited the dentist again after the fight where the infection was discovered and three more teeth extracted. Villa ignored the dentist's instructions afterwards and died a week later.

 

As for his career, obviously it is hard for us to judge since I doubt any of us has seen a Pancho Villa fight. Villa died perhaps before his prime and he was never knocked out. He owns a victory over Jimmy Wilde, and that is HUGE.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

The fact he has Chavez ranked over Pernell Whitaker, makes me not take this list seriously.

 

I think there's a legitimate argument. Chavez's record before the Whitaker fight was highly impressive. His greatest successes were at lower weight classes. People forget he rose a weight class to battle Whitaker. It's the same deal with Roberto Duran. Duran lost to many lower ranked fighters, but he's top 20 material based on his lightweight career. And Whitaker's higher than De La Hoya and Felix Trinidad, whom he both lost to. Not that they should be ranked higher. Just noting the problem with judging a ranking based on one fight.

 

The only people who really think Chavez should be ranked above Whitaker are the biased mexican fans, or people who really hate Whitaker.

 

Even if we ignore the fact that Whitaker made Chavez look like an amatuer when they fought, look at Whitaker's accomplishments. The most dominate lightweight since Roberto Duran a divison in which he cleared out, he won world titles in 4 different weight classes, arguably the greatest defensive fighter of all time. And the reason why De La Hoya or Trinidad isn't ranked above Whitaker despite having wins againest him, is because of the fact that Whitaker wasn't NO WHERE near his prime when he fought both of them, espically Trinidad. And the desicion win for De La Hoya is EXTREMELY questionable. Alot of people, including me had Whitaker winning the fight, and that was when Whitaker was heavily into drugs.

 

Chavez won titles in 3 different divisons, and fought alot of journey man and mexican bums who problay fought the fight for a sandwich. His best win is againest Meldrick Taylor where he got EXTREMELY lucky from the referee Richard Steele whom called the fight off with 3 seconds left on the clock, and Taylor would of got the desicion easily. Now I do have nothing againest that stoppage, Richard Steele did the right job(Lou Duva on the other hand should be responible for that lost to Taylor because he distracted Taylor when Steele was trying to see if he is alright), but for pretty much the whole fight Taylor was making Chavez look very amatuerish.

 

You look at most boxing experts on their Pound for Pound lists, 8 out of 10 will have Whitaker ranked above Chavez, and alot higher then Bert Sugar has him ranked. Infact, when the Ring Best 80 fighters in the last 80 years, they ranked Pernell Whitaker #10 while Chavez got ranked #20.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Chavez won titles in 3 different divisons, and fought alot of journey man and mexican bums who problay fought the fight for a sandwich. His best win is againest Meldrick Taylor where he got EXTREMELY lucky from the referee Richard Steele whom called the fight off with 3 seconds left on the clock, and Taylor would of got the desicion easily. Now I do have nothing againest that stoppage, Richard Steele did the right job(Lou Duva on the other hand should be responible for that lost to Taylor because he distracted Taylor when Steele was trying to see if he is alright), but for pretty much the whole fight Taylor was making Chavez look very amatuerish.

 

Yeah Chavez got lucky, but what matters is that Chavez knocked out Taylor. No one holds Louis-Conn I against Joe Louis, and most people don't knock Rocky Marciano because Walcott was ahead on points in the first fight.

 

I'm no expert on the 80s mexican boxing scene, so I can't comment on how good Chavez really was, and if his prime was better than Whitaker's. But there certainly was an aura of invincibility around Chavez before he lost his first fight. Not that he couldn't be beat, but somehow he wouldn't.

 

I'd rank Whitaker above Chavez myself. But if an informed person wants to make the opposite choice, I won't begrudge him that. No Top 100 list is going to please everyone.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Another relavent point to consider is knockouts. Chavez knocked out 81% of his opponents, Whitaker just 40%. Whether you put stock in that or not, you have to remember that high knockout boxers are always going to be rated more favorably.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Knockouts doesn't matter in the case of Whitaker, because that wasn't his style to knock out the opponet. He didn't pressure the fighter like Chavez did, he would let the fighter try to pressure him and duck and slip his punches and counter with his jab.

 

In what Whitaker lacked in power he made up in skills. Look at all the fights Whitaker dominated in his prime, he is easily the most dominate lightweight/welterweight fighter in the 90's, atleast in my opinion.