Heavy Metal Band Tournament: Nomination Thread

[Guest J0bber]

Let's face it, you're one of those metalcore kids who's jumping on the bandwagon to label every metal band that came out in the mid to late 90s nu metal. Call it nu metal if you want, but bands like Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Mushroomhead and Coal Chamber were far more revolutionary than the bands that are coming out today. They deserve some recognition in the metal scene. I'm sure five years from now when the metalcore scene is dead everyone will be saying how metalcore wasn't true metal.

FACT: The first CD I ever owned was White Zombie's Astro-Creep 2000.

FACT: I was learning Slayer and 80's Metallica songs on my guitar before I even knew who the fuck Slipknot, KoRn, or Limp Bizkit were.

FACT: You are a stupid fuckwad.

 

Dude, you really think I'm just one of those "metalcore" bandwagon kids, eh? Oh, so I guess listening to metal since I grew my pubes in, having 200+ CDs chronicling multiple styles of the genre, and being one of the only TSM'ers that have been one of the "TSM Metalheads" since TSM started makes me a fashioncore wannabe bandwagoner.

...yeah, and I guess that means Journey is metal. I mean, they had long hair! And distorted guitars! And solo's, dude! It takes more to be a metal band than Drop-D and palm muting, dumbass. Nu-metal is just pseudo-grunge with screams about how much the overprivileged youth of the nation hate their yuppie parents instead of muttering. Weed replaced heroin, Hot Topic replaced the local thrift shop, and looking like a fucking clown replaced looking like a lumberjack.

 

Also...what the fuck? "Far more revolutionary"?! Coal Chamber ripped off KoRn (who just ripped off Helmet), Mushroomhead is basically one big Mike Patton love afair with some Ministry thrown in (listen to Mushroomhead, and then listen to Mr. Bungle and Patton-era Faith No More, and you'll see what the fuck I mean), Slipknot is a weak-ass wannabe version of Sepultura and Slayer that stole Mushroomhead's gimmick (the original Mushroomhead masks were eerily similar to the original Slipknot ones, and Mushroomhead predates Slipknot by a few years), and Marilyn Manson just took his favorite elements of KISS and Alice Cooper and tossed some New York Dolls and David Bowie into the mix. I won't deny that SOME of these bands produced some quality music (I've been trying to get my hands on some old-school Mushroomhead to no avail since I love XX and XIII ain't that bad, and Manson produced some quality hard rock up until Holy Wood), but there's a diamond in every rough. Just because one band happens to be good at playing a bastardization of another style of music, that doesn't mean that the music being played isn't a bastardization nonetheless.

Nu-Metal bands (like Coal Chamber and Slipknot) are to REAL metal bands (like Iron Maiden and Exodus) what Pop-Punk bands (like Blink 182 and Simple Plan) are to REAL punk bands (like TSOL and Black Flag): a fucking corporate bastardization, simplified and watered-down to appeal to a larger market that has no idea what the meaning of the style even is.

As for Rob Zombie being "Alice Cooper" metal, I have no problem with that. He does have some great metal songs though like Demonoid Phenomenon, which is why I mentioned him. However, a band you nominated, Black Sabbath, can be termed "Alice Cooper" metal. Ozzy was also a shock rocker back in the day just as Manson and Zombie are now.

No, Sabbath really couldn't be. Ozzy did fucked up shit because he was playing to the stereotypes of rock n' roll, and constantly on a vast array of drugs. Sabbath, MUSICALLY, defined heavy metal: heavy distortion, dissonance, an overall sense of power in musical form, and doom. Heavy metal is meant to reflect the darker aspects of society as a whole, not "waah, my daddy raped me when I was 10 so now I'm scared of the dark."

And, again, I fucking love Rob Zombie. Doesn't make his solo work metal, though. Some of it is metal (funny how you say "Demonoid Phenomenon," one of his weakest songs, and fail to mention killer tracks like "Superbeast," "American Nightmare," and even his latest single "American Witch").

I don't know why I like Derrick Green in Sepultura. Maybe it's because his growl is a bit deeper than Max's. I know I'm in the minority when I say Against is one of my favorite Sepultura albums.

Yeah, you are. You'd prolly prefer Soulfly's second album over Sepultura's classic Schizophrenia, too.

 

Now, onto your second post...

I didn't necessarily say those bands were revolutionary. I said they are more revolutionary than the metalcore bands that are coming out today.

No, you said "than the bands" that are coming out today. Name me one band - one fucking band - that could fall into the nu-metal category that newer bands like Mastodon, High On Fire, or even Unearth aren't better than. Say what you will about Unearth, but Buz can fucking SHRED on guitar, and Trevor writes some damn decent lyrics. Much better than your generic Marilyn Manson "I do coke and worship Satan, but I'm not such a bad guy" message with faux-fascist overtones just to get a rise out of the religious right.

And Mastodon...FUCK. If there's a single band you even listen to on a regular basis that can hold Mastodon's collective pubic hairs then I'd like to hear them.

They each had their own identity. Nowadays, there is no character in metal.

No. Nu-metal was the forerunner to today's "metal," or as I and a lot of others call it, fashioncore. Whiny, generic, and it sounds like a bunch of riffs pasted together with no rhyme or reason just to finish the song. I couldn't tell any nu-metal band apart from the other without seeing their pictures, and even then I saw fishnet shirts, poorly dyed black and purple hair (often long braids or short spikes), and your standard black Hot Topic faux-bondage pants with Doc Martens.

I tried listening to some of Shadows Falls's albums, but they were just so terrible I couldn't get all the way through.

Really? Which one? Because The Art of Balance sucked, the second half of Of One Blood lacks energy and drive, and Somber Eyes to the Sky suffers from terrible production. Listen to The War Within from start to finish and you'll see why Shadows Fall are the only young band that a lot of old-timers actually fucking respect.

The t(h)rash metal scene died a long time ago.

Somebody better go tell Exodus that, since they just released two of their best albums in the last couple of years. Somebody better go tell Slayer that, who are headlining the biggest metal tour in the States this year. Somebody better tell The Haunted that, since, you know, they're one of the most widely-known "newer" metal bands (and yeah, fucky, there's a reason "newer" is in quotes, so do some research). And as for SOD and Kreator and all of those other old-school thrash bands that are making somewhat of a comeback, even if it is post-mortem? Who the fuck needs them!?

We don't need people reinventing it.

You're right, we don't. Fuck off, Susperia! Fuck you for trying to add some of that amazing black metal ambience to thrash metal! Eat shit, Darkest Hour, for even fucking THINKING you could do some 7-minute long heavy thrash-influenced epics! Hey, Bitchslicer, go lick your mother's taint! You too, Despotic Robot, we don't need your fucking jazzy improv and grindcore insanity to be added to thrash metal!

However, I will admit that there are some decent bands coming out like The Dillinger Escape Plan and Every Time I Die who do have a great sound and seem to be coming from the metalcore scene.

Every Time I Die is pretty good. I'm surprised you like them. Dillinger Escape Plan, though, is atrocious. If you like a band that just tries to fit as many annoying riffs into one song as possible, go ahead and listen to them. They're talented, though, I can't take that away from them, but they're music sorta, you know...sucks.

 

Are you seeing my point yet, J0bber? Thus far you have proven to know about 5% as much about metal as a style as I do...and I'm one of the LESS KNOWLEDGABLE posters here when it comes to heavy metal.

Is it really worth to go on such a long tangent about music, which is supposed to be taken as entertainment? I don't take any music I listen to seriously. All the songs are fantasy. Marilyn Manson is really a nice guy deep inside, just listen to his interviews.

 

You can define metal the way you want, and I can define it in the allegedly haphazardly way I want. I got into music when the supposed "nu-metal" scene was exploding so yeah I got into bands like Coal Chamber, Mushroomhead, and Slipknot, but as time went on, I got into what you elitists in the metal scene may consider "real" metal. Yes, I listen to Deicide. Yes, I listen to Meshuggah. Are these bands worth being nominated? Maybe Meshuggah, but Deicide is not to be taken seriously anytime.

 

I guess I may be a hypocrite when I say I don't like thrash because I listen to a few death metal bands that were influenced by thrash like Cannibal Corpse and Deicide. I got into death metal before I got into thrash metal. When I listened to a band like Overkill, I became under whelmed since there wasn't enough growling.

 

As for you not telling any "nu-metal" band apart, I can't tell any metalcore band apart either. They all look emo with their eyeliner and tight jeans, except for the likes of Hatebreed and Throwdown who may be considered hardcore instead of metalcore.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Is it really worth to go on such a long tangent about music, which is supposed to be taken as entertainment? I don't take any music I listen to seriously. All the songs are fantasy. Marilyn Manson is really a nice guy deep inside, just listen to his interviews.

No, really?! Entertainers put on a show?! NO FUCKING WAY!!!

And no, it's not really worth it, but when you talk about a style of music you know so little about as if you were some fucking expert, then yeah it needs to be done.

You can define metal the way you want, and I can define it in the allegedly haphazardly way I want. I got into music when the supposed "nu-metal" scene was exploding so yeah I got into bands like Coal Chamber, Mushroomhead, and Slipknot,

Well, that's when I really got into metal, too. I was 14 when Slipknot first came out with "Wait and Bleed." I went through a Slipknot phase, even. Doesn't mean I didn't know they weren't true metal (though if there was ever a nu-metal band that caused controversy over whether or not they were actually metal, Slipknot was it).

but as time went on, I got into what you elitists in the metal scene may consider "real" metal. Yes, I listen to Deicide. Yes, I listen to Meshuggah. Are these bands worth being nominated? Maybe Meshuggah, but Deicide is not to be taken seriously anytime.

No shit. Gore metal shouldn't be taken seriously, it's a joke. And I think Tack would have something to say about death metal not being serious.

I guess I may be a hypocrite when I say I don't like thrash because I listen to a few death metal bands that were influenced by thrash like Cannibal Corpse and Deicide.

Ahem...ANY death metal you listen to was influenced by thrash. NWOBHM > Speed Metal > Thrash Metal > Death Metal.

I got into death metal before I got into thrash metal. When I listened to a band like Overkill, I became under whelmed since there wasn't enough growling.

If you're listening to a band because of nothing but the vocals, you're listening for the wrong reasons. And Overkill fucking sucks anyway.

As for you not telling any "nu-metal" band apart, I can't tell any metalcore band apart either. They all look emo with their eyeliner and tight jeans, except for the likes of Hatebreed and Throwdown who may be considered hardcore instead of metalcore.

I never said you could tell fashioncore bands apart. I'm glad you keep thinking I'm all about fashioncore, despite me always listing SOD and The Haunted (note: THRASH BANDS) among my favorite bands.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Are you seeing my point yet, J0bber? Thus far you have proven to know about 5% as much about metal as a style as I do...and I'm one of the LESS KNOWLEDGABLE posters here when it comes to heavy metal.

 

Corey, you're sabotaging your arguement by attacking the person instead of his points.

 

I'm gonna have to do one of my genre rants here soon i think, also.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

But my argument was that he knew next-to-nothing, and my evidence was his points.