Canadians should more to welcome Islamic community

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Politicians of all stripes are advocating the importance of engaging and holding discussions with Canada's Islamic community after police made 17 arrests on Friday, allegedly foiling a Toronto terror cell.

 

Twelve adult men and five youths were rounded up in the sweeping raid. Police seized weapons, army fatigues, and three tonnes of fertilizer that can be used to build bombs.

 

The investigators allege the group was planning a series of major attacks against targets in Southern Ontario.

 

Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day told CTV's Question Period the enemy is anyone who has intentions of doing harm to other Canadians, not a specific ethnic or religious group.

 

With the arrests, many fear there will be reprisals against Muslim groups in Canada, but Day said his government is taking efforts to avoid that possibility.

 

"Tomorrow I'll be meeting with our cross-cultural round table on these types of issues, and they report to the public safety department." Day said on Sunday.

 

"These are individuals who represent a variety of our ethnic and cultural communities across Canada, so the message goes out very clearly that what we're talking about is people who have criminal intentions on other Canadians."

 

The Liberal and New Democratic public safety critics agreed with Day on the importance of engaging the Islamic community.

 

"This should be a big issue for us," Liberal Public Safety Critic Derek Lee told Question Period. "Ninety-nine per cent of the broader Islamic community is out there, very sensitive about this and waiting to hear some reassurance that they are Canadians just like everybody else.

 

"A few bad apples, should there be some...shouldn't be allowed to taint the whole community," Lee said. "There are as concerned about our public safety as anybody else."

 

Joe Comartin, the New Democratic Public Safety Critic agreed. He said Canadians need to react with calm and sensitivity to the recent arrests, and must protect the Islamic community from retaliation.

 

"They're the major victims when something like this happens because of what seems to be the inevitable backlash," Comartin told Question Period. "Canada has been good about the limited nature of that backlash, but it certainly is there. There's the bigotry and the racism that comes to the surface at these points."

 

"The Muslim community here has every right to expect Canadians will respond with moderation, apply our values, our judicial and justice system to the facts that are in effect here, (and ensure) we don't over react and we don't panic."

 

Day would share few details about the ongoing investigation. He said he has been in touch with his U.S. counterparts, but would not say whether they were involved in the investigation, as some media outlets have reported.

 

"I can say that with security agencies around the world, all countries communicate in terms of things we learn and how we can protect one another's borders."

 

The arrests should build confidence in Canada's security efforts, rather than prompt fears in the nation's neighbours that Canada is a haven for terrorists, Day said.

 

"This type of action and the demonstration of what Canadian security forces can do builds confidence, not just among Canadians but among all our allies."

 

Day praised the Canadian agencies that were involved in the investigation, saying the arrests foiled serious intentions to do harm against Canadians.

 

"This sends a very clear message that if there are people in Canada who want to harm other Canadians, their chances of being discovered are very great and they will be put out of action for a very considerable period of time."

 

"They will be found out. As Stephen Leacock used to say, Canada is just a big small town and we are able to zero in on these types of activities."

 

 

Well done. This on yesterday's news of a MAJOR terror bust in Toronto. Interestingly, Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair reported that the motivation for the attacks was not faith-based. Either way, we can all learn something from the article above, I suspect.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Sorry, didn't mean to post this topic twice. Mods, can I get this one deleted?

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Nah get the other one deleted.

 

And bad on the politicians, we should encourage the drubbing of Moslems.

[dubq 0]

From: http://www.pulse24.com/News/Top_Story/20060605-002/page.asp

 

The terror investigation in southern Ontario that culminated in the arrest of 17 individuals began two years ago with suspicious activity on the Internet.

 

According to a published report, spies noticed a number of teenagers visiting extremist websites spouting anti-Western views in 2004.

 

That sparked the interest of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, which began keeping an eye on the suspects in an investigation that included members of the RCMP, other federal and provincial agencies, and various police services from across Ontario including Toronto’s.

 

The probe eventually uncovered an alleged plan to attack targets in the province, and led to the arrests and laying of terrorism-related charges this past weekend.

 

Police made the arrests Friday after three tonnes of ammonium nitrate – a common garden fertilizer which can be mixed with other substances to make explosives – was allegedly bought from undercover officers.

 

It was reported over the weekend that the substance sold was in fact a harmless chemical that resembled ammonium nitrate.

 

Investigators have been extremely tight-lipped about possible terror targets, but rumours circulated that they may have included the Parliament buildings and the Peace Tower in Ottawa, and the CN Tower, Toronto Stock Exchange and CSIS office in Toronto.

 

There was no official confirmation that any of those locations were in fact targets.

 

The reasons behind the alleged conspiracy remains unknown, and one federal official who didn’t want to be named said that’ll be the focus of much debate in political and security circles in the coming days.

 

"Most of them went through the school system here. They're not just off the plane. So there will be some questioning going on," the official said.

 

"The big issue is going to be societal, that's clear."

 

Meanwhile, another report suggests the suspects used a rural area in the town of Washago, Ont., about 90 minutes north of Toronto, as a training ground. Neighbours living in the area recalled seeing two groups of men dressed in camouflage allegedly trespassing on the land.

 

One person said he heard high-powered gunshots coming from the area. The RCMP apparently kept tabs on the individuals during their time there in late December and early January.

 

The suspects, 12 men and five youths, are due back in Brampton court Tuesday.

 

June 5, 2006

 

Regardless of the motives, etc. these fuckers had better not get off with some lax punishment - and that goes double for the young offenders.

[CanadianChris 0]

Unsurprisingly, the accused's lawyers are claiming entrapment under the Charter.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

3 of them went to my high school. I was 3 years above them but my brother and his friends knew some of the dudes.

 

I think the Toronto media is backpedalling after the racial violence and vandilism that took place over the weekend. Today's stories on the news were "Suspect X's Wife says 'My husband is innocent'" pieces as opposed to the "TERRORISTS IN CUSTODY" headlines they were running over the weekend.

 

I'll be interested to see what happens if it turns out these guys ended up getting caught in a police sting, as it was originally reported. Good luck finding any excuse as to why you'd need that much fertilizer in fucking Mississauga.

[cbacon 0]

Taliban warns Cdn. troops to leave Afghanistan

 

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...s_name=&no_ads=

 

A top Taliban official says Canadian troops should get out of Afghanistan and stop acting like Americans, or face the insurgents' wrath at the same level the U.S. has experienced.

 

The military commander and Taliban spokesperson, known as Mullah Dadallah, appeared on the Al-Jazeera television network this week.

 

"Our main enemy is the United States. As for Canada and the other countries, we have no historical enmity with them," Dadallah said, according to a report in The Globe and Mail on Friday.

 

"But if they want to come here as fighting forces, we will view then just as we view the Americans. America is a big snake that wants to bite everybody."

 

The report came the same day as Canadian troops apparently avoided a suicide car bomb attack that killed the driver and three civilians, according to local police.

 

A Canadian convoy passed near the vehicle 25 kilometres north of the city of Kandahar before the explosives detonated, a spokesman for the governor of Kandahar told The Associated Press.

 

Canada currently has 2,300 soldiers in Afghanistan, and recently committed to remaining in the war-torn nation until at least 2009.

 

Since 2002, 16 Canadian soldiers and one diplomat have been killed in Afghanistan.

 

Dadallah advised Canada and the other multi-national forces in Afghanistan to abandon both the nation, and any attempts to defend or side with the U.S.

 

"If they return to where they came from, and withdraw their forces from here, we will not view them like the Americans."

 

Dadallah said the U.S. is using Canada, and others, to fight its battles for it, according to a transcript of the interview prepared by the Middle East Media Research Institute.

 

"Our advice to Canada and Britain is to refrain from defending the American propaganda, and from standing by this historic American crime. America wants to get other countries entangled in the crimes it committed in Afghanistan.

 

"Our advice to these countries is to avoid the heat of battle, because we will wreak vengeance upon them one by one, like we are doing with the Americans, if they remain here when the Americans are gone."

 

The warning marks one of the few occasions the Taliban has specifically mentioned Canada directly. The comments seem intended to strike fear in the hearts of troops, and to provoke distrust in the Afghan population.

 

Meanwhile, the Canadian military has gone to great lengths to build bridges with Afghans, holding informal, sit down meetings with village elders around the country to determine the needs of locals, as well as working to help provide vital services.

 

The Taliban has kept a relatively low profile since the U.S. invaded Afghanistan in 2001, but the insurgents appear to be stepping up efforts recently.

 

This week in Ottawa, Lt.-Gen. Michel Gauthier appeared before a Senate committee. He told members it is vital that Canadian troops strive for the support of locals, and said the work in Afghanistan will be accomplished by providing security and safety to Afghans.

 

"If they are still being terrorized by the Taliban, that terror might force them to vote with the Taliban," Gauthier said.

 

Jack Hooper, the deputy director of operations with the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, told the committee that Canada's work in Afghanistan will have ramifications outside the nation's borders.

 

"In the here and now, terrorism and insurgency are being brought to Canadians in Afghanistan," Hooper said.

 

"At some future point, if we are to learn the lessons of history, their practitioners may bring violence to the streets of our cities."

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

Welcome C-Bacon. You've been quiet lately, my leftist brother.

[cbacon 0]

'Sup, comrade

[dubq 0]

From: http://www.dose.ca/toronto/news/story.html...LgCPyc82w%3d%3d

 

Suspect Held Extreme Views

Reuters

Tuesday, June 6, 2006

 

OTTAWA - Qayyum Abdul Jamal, the eldest of the 17 men arrested in Canada's home-grown terror case, was an unimpressive "idiot" who alleged Canadian troops were in Afghanistan to rape Muslim women, a local legislator said on Monday.

 

Jamal, 43, was charged on Monday with planning to cause a deadly explosion and could face life in prison if found guilty. He was a volunteer at the Ar-Rahman Islamic Center in Mississauga, Ontario, west of Toronto, and sometimes lectured there.

 

Wajid Khan, the Liberal legislator for the local parliamentary constituency, said he had been invited to speak at the center about a year ago.

 

Jamal, who was leading the prayers that day, was supposed to make brief comments introducing Khan to the congregation.

 

"He said they (the Canadian troops) are in Afghanistan to rape Muslim women," Khan told Reuters by telephone from Mississauga.

 

"I just got up right away and I pushed him aside and started to address the crowd and criticized him for talking nonsense. People agreed with me, that this was bullshit."

 

At the time of the incident, Canada had a large contingent of troops in the Afghan capital Kabul. There are now 2,300 Canadian soldiers in the southern city of Kandahar.

 

Khan said he had been told that angry members of the congregation later confronted Jamal outside the center and "kind of roughed him up" to show their displeasure.

 

"I just figured he was another one of the disgruntled Canadians who is not happy with troops being in Afghanistan. Half the country didn't like the idea, so I thought that this is just an idiot trying to be a hero," he said.

 

Khan told Reuters he had had nothing more to do with the center or Jamal.

 

"Then I saw his picture in the news and his name and (I thought) 'holy cow' and then all hell broke loose."

 

Members of the congregation told local media that Jamal had been a mentor figure to several teenagers who are also among the accused, something Khan said he found hard to grasp.

 

"It's very disturbing. I'm struggling with the whole of the idea of how the hell that this guy -- who is very ordinary ... he's not a fiery speaker, his command of the language is piss-poor: is he really the guy who has brainwashed these other teenagers or he is just a contact guy?" he said.

 

Sayyid Mohamed Syeed, the secretary general of the Islamic Society of North America, said some Muslims who immigrated to Canada were not as well educated as their U.S. counterparts and tended to stick with members of their ethnic community.

 

"The Canadian Muslim community has in common with the European Muslim community a generally lower skill set, lower education," he told Reuters in Washington.

 

"Canada has espoused the mixing bowl mentality, celebrating cultural diversity, whereas the United States has pushed for the melting pot model where different cultures are encouraged to blend in with the mainstream."

[Lord of The Curry 0]

It just keeps getting more fucked up around here. Meadowvale is makin' the international headlines. Talking to people who knew one of the youths that was arrested it seems that after Grade 11 he started to get heavily into religion, grew out the hair/beard combo and never spoke to any of his former white friends again.

 

Apparently one of the guys in custody personally wanted to behead Stephen Harper.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Canada should take Australia's tone after this incident: "You're welcome to come here, but if you want an Islamic theocracy, there's other countries where you can go, because it's not happening here."

[Lord of The Curry 0]

After those friendly text-messaging riot incidents earlier this year I don't think we'll be following the Aussies advice on this one.

[SuperJerk 0]

Dear Canada,

 

Fuck the Taliban and fuck what they think.

 

Signed,

 

The U.S.

[cbacon 0]

Indeed.

 

Although we should get out of Afghanistan, not because the Taliban threatened us, but because it's the right thing to do

[SuperJerk 0]

I think the vast majority of U.S. citizens still favor military action in Afganistan. Is there a reason we shouldn't?

[cbacon 0]

The majority of Americans are currently against the occupation of Iraq, so I can't imagine the numbers being much different for Afghanistan. Especially considering the condition Afghanistan is in now, and there dosen't look to be much improvement on the horizon.

 

Canada rightly insisted that any invasion of Afghanistan should be sanctioned by the United Nations. We went there under the UN umbrella. Now the mission has changed, and Canada is working directly for the Americans, outside of NATO and without the legal direction of the UN. Canadians did not ask for that.

 

I don't have a problem with Canada participating in a multinational, UN-led reconstruction effort. I have a problem with Canada participating in a NATO- or US-led effort because NATO and the US should not get to decide whether a country needs occupying.

[SuperJerk 0]

The majority of Americans are currently against the occupation of Iraq, so I can't imagine the numbers being much different for Afghanistan.

 

No, because the connection between the Taliban and Al Quaeda is actually valid.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

The majority of Americans are currently against the occupation of Iraq, so I can't imagine the numbers being much different for Afghanistan. Especially considering the condition Afghanistan is in now, and there dosen't look to be much improvement on the horizon.

 

Canada rightly insisted that any invasion of Afghanistan should be sanctioned by the United Nations. We went there under the UN umbrella. Now the mission has changed, and Canada is working directly for the Americans, outside of NATO and without the legal direction of the UN. Canadians did not ask for that.

 

I don't have a problem with Canada participating in a multinational, UN-led reconstruction effort. I have a problem with Canada participating in a NATO- or US-led effort because NATO and the US should not get to decide whether a country needs occupying.

 

You know how rarely you and I disagree Bacon, but the genuine appreciation shown by any Afghan-Canadian makes me think we have to be on the right tack, even if you were absolutely right about the NATO/US thing.

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

The majority of Americans are currently against the occupation of Iraq, so I can't imagine the numbers being much different for Afghanistan.

 

No, because the connection between the Taliban and Al Quaeda is actually valid.

 

Not that I don't believe it, but can you elaborate a little?

 

Remember, we were told for close to two years that Saddam also had close ties.

[SuperJerk 0]

The majority of Americans are currently against the occupation of Iraq, so I can't imagine the numbers being much different for Afghanistan.

 

No, because the connection between the Taliban and Al Quaeda is actually valid.

 

Not that I don't believe it, but can you elaborate a little?

 

Remember, we were told for close to two years that Saddam also had close ties.

 

The Taliban was harboring and aiding Osama bin Laden prior to 9/11. No one has ever disputed this, and the link was pretty well established. The only thing we don't like about the Afgan war is that bin Laden hasn't been captured yet. I think most Americans have even forgotten we're over there.

[cbacon 0]

Americans really have to question why they are in Afghanistan in the first place.

 

A Pentagon report said the invasion was necessary “to dissuade any military competitor from developing . . . capabilities that could enable regional hegemony or hostile action against the United States.” Translation: Stop China from asserting its power in its own part of the world, which includes Afghanistan.

 

It has been argued convincingly by Pentagon officials that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the risk of terrorist attacks on America and her allies. I guess the risk to Amreican and Afghan lives is worth achieving “full spectrum dominance” — as another official report puts it.

 

It should also be noted that the US had no proof to get Osama convicted before the bombings in Afgnanistan took palce. The Taliban even offered to turn Osama in if the US could prove his guilt (yes, I know that was likely an insincere gesture, but the fact remains that the US still went ahead with the bombings without any proof at the time). Furthermore, Article 51 of the UN charter states that force can be used in self-defsnse against an armed attack. In international law, it means an instantantenous ongoing attack, which the US was not under after 9/11. Somewhere along the line Osama conveniently became an after thought. And what's left after the invasion is a country with a massive increase (in the millions) of Afghans without food, and tens of thousands of Afghan civilians killed by the bombings. It's safe to say that the US, and subsequently Canada are seen as occupiers, rather than liberators in their country. And it's hard to blame them, given the fact that they've had to deal with all sorts of imperialism and occupying armies for centuries.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I'm all for a Canadian reconstruction effort under a UN banner rather than helping to clean up the mess America has made for it self. As good neighbouts and allies, we should be assisting in legal, multilateral operations rather than further wading into the quagmire. This is not our war. Our troops would be much more of an assistance in Dafur right about now.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

If you don't understand why the US had to invade Afghanistan, you're a fucking idiot.

[Dr. Zaius 0]

Americans really have to question why they are in Afghanistan in the first place.

 

A Pentagon report said the invasion was necessary “to dissuade any military competitor from developing . . . capabilities that could enable regional hegemony or hostile action against the United States.” Translation: Stop China from asserting its power in its own part of the world, which includes Afghanistan.

China?

 

It has been argued convincingly by Pentagon officials that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the risk of terrorist attacks on America and her allies. I guess the risk to Amreican and Afghan lives is worth achieving “full spectrum dominance” — as another official report puts it.

No fair lumping two invasions in together that took place over a year apart.

 

It should also be noted that the US had no proof to get Osama convicted before the bombings in Afgnanistan took palce. The Taliban even offered to turn Osama in if the US could prove his guilt (yes, I know that was likely an insincere gesture, but the fact remains that the US still went ahead with the bombings without any proof at the time). Furthermore, Article 51 of the UN charter states that force can be used in self-defsnse against an armed attack. In international law, it means an instantantenous ongoing attack, which the US was not under after 9/11. Somewhere along the line Osama conveniently became an after thought. And what's left after the invasion is a country with a massive increase (in the millions) of Afghans without food, and tens of thousands of Afghan civilians killed by the bombings. It's safe to say that the US, and subsequently Canada are seen as occupiers, rather than liberators in their country. And it's hard to blame them, given the fact that they've had to deal with all sorts of imperialism and occupying armies for centuries.

You're forgetting that the Taliban was also helping bin Laden. They were considered accomplices, and thus guilty of attacking the US. And everyone knows bin Laden was responcible. The U.S. intelligence community got that one right.

[Big Ol' Smitty 0]

Afghanistan should have been the only country that we invaded. Well, perhaps Sudan, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

 

The problem with Afghanistan seems to be that it's been totally forgotten over the past 3+ years.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

That's partly Bush's fault for invading Iraq though.

 

I don't think people understand how completely insane the Taliban was. I remember reading stories about how they were going to start instituting Nazi-esque measures against their Jewish and Hindu communities right before 9/11 (making them wear armbands, etc).

[cbacon 0]

You're forgetting that the Taliban was also helping bin Laden. They were considered accomplices, and thus guilty of attacking the US. And everyone knows bin Laden was responcible. The U.S. intelligence community got that one right.

 

Yeah? This still does not justify the invasion. The US attacked Afghanistan, not the other way around. Much like with Iraq, the United States could have helped to get rid of the enemies they helped to finance without crippling the country and killing thousands of civilians in the process. This could have been done years before 9/11 took place, but they chose not to.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

Invading Afghanistan was completely 100% justifiable and necessary. Those fuckers had it coming.

 

Or maybe we should've just left the Taliban in place so they could've kept harboring terrorists, terrorizing their own people, and stoning women to death for exposing their ankles, etc.

 

Why some of you are so tolerant of the barbarians is beyond me.

[cbacon 0]

Invading Afghanistan was completely 100% justifiable and necessary. Those fuckers had it coming.

 

You mean the millions on the verge of starvation? They had it coming?

 

Or maybe we should've just left the Taliban in place so they could've kept harboring terrorists, terrorizing their own people, and stoning women to death for exposing their ankles, etc.

 

You seem to have no problem leaving in the brutal regimes still left in places like Uzbekistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc.

 

Why some of you are so tolerant of the barbarians is beyond me.

 

I don't think anyone is.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

 

You seem to have no problem leaving in the brutal regimes still left in places like Uzbekistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc.

 

Don't be a fool. None of those countries have done anything directly to us, to the extent of the terrorist attacks perpetrated on 9/11.

 

Oh, but if I had my way, we would have no troops in Saudi Arabia, and we wouldn't give any aid to any of the Arab countries, at least ones that sponsored school that preach anti-American hate and work against our ally Israel, etc.