Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 9, 2002 Dude! 'Nightmare on Helm's Street' ROOLZ! Anyways, the Wwf should just try to make the cruiserweight division a 100% clone of the NJ Jr. Division in its heyday. Just have Malenko work the whole thing. Hurricane can be Lyger, Knoble can be Benoit, Mysterio can be Sasuke, Kidman can be El Samurai (that is, Hurricanes trusty and underrated sidekeekuh), Chavo can be Black Tiger, and Funaki can be Ohtani. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted June 9, 2002 I totally agree with RRR. I would much rather watch a smartly worked NJPW-style match than a WCW/Indie spot-a-thon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted June 9, 2002 The reason the "WWF/E cruisers suck" argument is valid (at least partially) is because they aren't treated like juniors. They're treated like mini heavyweights. It's the same punch-kick-spot style. But instead of punch-kick-slam/suplex, it's punch-kick-cruiser move. It DOES suck, when you compare them to even WCW cruiser matches (Rey/Malenko comes to mind as a really good one)..and the Super J-cups.. It's because matwork is EVIL. Can't let them use a submission, or anything. Wouldn't want to do that. Probably a direct result of the fact "marks" attention spans have been turned down. Really stupid, IMO. Letting the cruisers work how they want, instead of Steve Austin mixed with a couple of hurricanranas..that may change things.. -Shiro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 9, 2002 Diablo has touched on the true problem that WWF/E Cruisers have experienced, and that's that they haven't been seperated enough from the Heavyweights, in matches and when it comes to styles. Cruiserweights are a good thing because they are an alternative to the heavyweight style that provides something different and exciting. If it's not different, no one will pay attention. In WCW, they were kept seperate and were treated as something much different from the norm. Good Cruiserweights with alternate styles were brought in, and it worked. If the WWE follows suit, then it could help them too. I'm not sure copying the New Japan '96 Junior Scene is such a hot idea, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest El Psycho Diablo Report post Posted June 9, 2002 I dislike copying anything. Especially an older angle that a promotion has put on, or copying another promotion's division. an NJPW style junior div might not work here..but.. Longer match times, the removal of the move/style restraint, and actual PUSHES of cruisers would work. Don't treat them like heavyweight fodder anymore (after all, Crash has to be kept around for some damn reason.). Bring in promsing cruisers, and let Malenko tutor the ones that need help. -Shiro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 9, 2002 I dislike copying anything. Especially an older angle that a promotion has put on, or copying another promotion's division. an NJPW style junior div might not work here..but.. Longer match times, the removal of the move/style restraint, and actual PUSHES of cruisers would work. Don't treat them like heavyweight fodder anymore (after all, Crash has to be kept around for some damn reason.). Bring in promsing cruisers, and let Malenko tutor the ones that need help. -Shiro In all liklyhood, anything resembling New Japan circa 1996 Junior Division would just flop here, considering that it required lots and lots of build up to make the juniors credible enough that people respected the division just as much the heavyweight division, and so on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 9, 2002 What's wrong with copying? New Japan was able to work fast paced, mat based, strong striking, high submission, and occasional high spots very well in its Jr division making it one of, if not THE, best style in the world. And it is easily compatable with the Wwf style. The closest (and most successful) of which was Scotty vs Dean Backlash 2000 and fans dug it. Dean knows both the Wwf and NJ divisions as he was in both and they have the talent to make it work (not saying that Hurricane is at Lyger level, but as a figure-head/super hero he can be). Just take the personalities and styles of each NJ wrestler and put them on a Wwf star (see previous post). Hell, its almost set up that way in the Wwf as it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Black Tiger Report post Posted June 10, 2002 When Tajiri made his debut he got over so quickly because of his in-ring style which was almost a carbon copy of New Japan's Shinjiro Ohtani. If WWE can make a divison based on the style of NJPW Junior divison of 1994-1997 then they will wind up entertaining the hell out of anybody who hasn't been exposed to it. What they need to do though is let the Cruiserweights do moves that are a little more risky like tombstones and the like since in NJ they were the backdrop for the high flying moves. It was a simple formula. The devistating move to credibly put the guy out, the high flying move to pop the crowd. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 10, 2002 It took years for Liger to book the division properly to the point that it was viewed with as much respect and admiration from the fans. You can't just decide "I think I'll make this division the same as NJPW circa 94-97" and watch it magically occur. No offense, but you guys are leaving out years of history with Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid, Lyger/Sano, and Hamada's UWF that led to all the amazing lucharesu greatness. Right now, they've got about six guys to build a division around. Most of them are very good, but not nearly at the levle of Ultimo, Liger, Samurai, Ohtani, Benoit, Eddy, Sasuke, or even Sabu and Kanemoto. The levle of respect from the fans is getting there, but is really a drop in the bucket compared to how distinguished the IWGP Junior-Heavyweight title was. What you guys are talking about sound great on paper, but is much more dificult in execution. WCW, who had a great thing going with their Cruiserweight title for a while took only a few months to burry it and render it useless. The WWE has an even smaller attention span at this point. I'm sorry guys, but at the end of the day Juniors just aren't respected as much in the states, and nothing about that will change unless some serious steps are taken, none of which Vince and Co. are willing to follow through with, even slightly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted June 10, 2002 If anything, they build the division around Tajiri. You can't just go out and copy something and expect it to get over. The wrestlers definately need cred and they need to get over. The second problem is that the shows haven't seperated enough. They have to seperate the shows, than treat the wrestlers in a respectable manner but in a different division. You hvae to draw real lines for at least the time being, and I understand the whole thing about that light-heavyweight need momentum to move up as well, but until the division is on solid ground, you can't cure that. Then afterwards, you can go out and make a tag team or two and maybe send a guy into a television-like division. Quite frankly, until the shows are completly seperate with two individual set of champions and seperate PPV's (and I could care less how many as long as they're seperate). They've taken one step in seperating the writing team, but I can't stand having floating champions and having both groups at the PPV's, while good for morale, is not right. They're seperate entities. Cut out any advertising and recapping of the other shows. It seems pretty obvious that RAW will be hit and miss because it's so storyline based, that it will go overboard sometimes, but SmackDown's going to have to bust out Mr. Consistancy with the ring work because it seems obvious the Heyman influence is on the ring, but they really need strong storylines. Now when this happens, the split is totally evident, you take your cruiserweight division, put the title back on Tajiri, get a face to chase it (Hurrican or Mysterio, the latter I prefer because he will probably be better for that role), build a secondary story and introduce the other players. Than, and this is probably where they're really screwed with Cole announcing, let them work in their own confines. They're to limited to wrestle anything but WWE style. The key is building diversity. If Helms pulled out a Vertibreaker, it'd be so goddamn over. I wish they could also change rings, but that's a little contrived on my part. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted June 10, 2002 If anything, they build the division around Tajiri. You can't just go out and copy something and expect it to get over. The wrestlers definately need cred and they need to get over. The second problem is that the shows haven't seperated enough. They have to seperate the shows, than treat the wrestlers in a respectable manner but in a different division. You hvae to draw real lines for at least the time being, and I understand the whole thing about that light-heavyweight need momentum to move up as well, but until the division is on solid ground, you can't cure that. Then afterwards, you can go out and make a tag team or two and maybe send a guy into a television-like division. Quite frankly, until the shows are completly seperate with two individual set of champions and seperate PPV's (and I could care less how many as long as they're seperate). They've taken one step in seperating the writing team, but I can't stand having floating champions and having both groups at the PPV's, while good for morale, is not right. They're seperate entities. Cut out any advertising and recapping of the other shows. It seems pretty obvious that RAW will be hit and miss because it's so storyline based, that it will go overboard sometimes, but SmackDown's going to have to bust out Mr. Consistancy with the ring work because it seems obvious the Heyman influence is on the ring, but they really need strong storylines. Now when this happens, the split is totally evident, you take your cruiserweight division, put the title back on Tajiri, get a face to chase it (Hurrican or Mysterio, the latter I prefer because he will probably be better for that role), build a secondary story and introduce the other players. Than, and this is probably where they're really screwed with Cole announcing, let them work in their own confines. They're to limited to wrestle anything but WWE style. The key is building diversity. If Helms pulled out a Vertibreaker, it'd be so goddamn over. I wish they could also change rings, but that's a little contrived on my part. Very well put. The Cruisers need ground to stand on before they can be pushed anywhere to begin with. Mixing of Jr.'s and Heavies never did anything for anyone, and that includes when New Japan did it. I agree with Cole announcing being death, too. While he has shown some effort in putting them over, it always comes off as half-hearted and he drifts over to talking about what's happening in the main event after thirty seconds of false enthusiasm for whatever Kidman or whoever is doing. Mike Tennay wasn't exactly the most charismatic comentator ever, but man did that guy know wrestling and how to make the Cruisers seem important. Cole's "look-at-the-athletisism!" style of commentating just does not work, and Tazz isn't much help. Ah well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Again, I disagree. The way the Wwf could organize it, with Hurricane being the top man (which he is) and knoble being the outsider wanting to kick ass (which knoble is) and Kidman trying to aspire to greatness (which he is) and Funaki being the goofy young punk everyone loves (which he is...HE IS), and Tajiri being an ass (which he is) and Chavo being the dick who just looks on and throws a brainbuster in once (which he is), and Mysterio can be the guy who comes out of nowhere and makes matches all spotterific and tries to take the top spot inwhich Hurricane says 'nuh uh hunay, that aint happenin in mah hOUse.", yeah, I say that would rock. Then they could divide up the cruiser div into groups: Kidman/Hurricane/Funaki vs. Knoble/Mysterio/Chavo/Tajiri... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Then right there we have Survivor Series Cruiserweight style Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Put down in writing all who encompus WWE's Great experiment in the Cruiserweight division Tajiri, Kidman, Chavo, Funaki, knoble, Helms... Who's yet to appear Shannon Moore, Rey Mystero Jr, Nova.. 9 total wow what they should do is perhaps if they ever had the desire to do any touring deals with the Japanese feds they should have a Junior tour with some name talent for a PPV Great Sasuke introduced TAKA to WWF Canadian Stampede again.. Perhaps his legs can't keep up anymore but hell its Sasuke he kicks a## in whatever condition But maybe do a deal with Toryumon... just have a Magnum Tokyo Dragon Kid and Ryo Saito vs CIMA SUWA and Sumo Fuji maybe... or have 3 T members vs Whats the WWE has to offer and see what happens... maybe the crowd would be wowed enough Remember majority of the Crowd never even seen NJPW no matter what year, so to them it wouldn't be a copy we probably pick it up before they would. and of course the One MAN that can Save the Cruiserweight divison the ONE man that Made Cruiserweight wrestling Famous the Man that WAS Mr. RATINGS in WCW! You know who im talkin about Im Talkin Bout LA PARKA!!!! DATS RIGHT LA PARKA GRANDA!!!! EL MANIA!!! RUNNING LOCO!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest thefrenchargel Report post Posted June 10, 2002 La Parka...I bet the WWF could sign him for about a nickel, and he'd get over, just due to his mannerisms. The crowd would be so bewilidered by him, it'd be priceless. Hurricane vs. La Parka would be a hoot and a half. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Your Olympic Hero Report post Posted June 10, 2002 How is Tajiri/Maven a PPV lock? I thought Maven broke his leg... or is that just in storyline? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Maven's going to be out at least two-to-three since I don't really know the severity of his injury, or even if the WWE will keep up with the story by then. The WWE only needs ten guys in that division. It's not like they're going to get more than one or two spots in the anchor shows, and a match on Excess maybe. Like Choshyu said, you can't just go out and expect to carbon copy a whole division with different players in a place where the wrestlers, and wrestling, get very little attention and are restricted as much as they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 10, 2002 La Parka was the most over luchadore in wcw who didn't have the cruiserwiehght title. La Parka could get the div. over easly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Man-o-man, just have La Parka run in on E and C and smack'em both with chairs and have him do his strut say 'yo yo yo its not the 411 its the 1 4 1 4, one for me, and one for my hommies' and he will have the WORLD by sun down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Risk Report post Posted June 10, 2002 Well, if I was in charge I would trash the tag titles and only have a Heavyweight and Junior Heavyweight singles division. I would cut out 90% of storylines and stupid backstage segments. I'd make most of the wrestling matwork and striking. I would eliminate moves which drop opponents on their heads. I would make the count out rules mean something again. I'd nix hardcore matches with props like chairs(while real, are too overused now) and tables. I would make sure all moves and especally finishers legitametly hurt A LOT. I would keep promos, although not many backstage ones, but they wouldn't last more than five minutes. I would destroy heel and faces then create new wrestling "alignments." These would be Scrpulous, Tweener, and Rulebreaker. Fans could cheer for any of these three types, but would mostly like Scrpulous and Tweener. I would make pins only one count like in amateur wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted June 10, 2002 That's horrible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 10, 2002 You are kidding right? One count? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted June 11, 2002 Put down in writing all who encompus WWE's Great experiment in the Cruiserweight division Tajiri, Kidman, Chavo, Funaki, knoble, Helms... Who's yet to appear Shannon Moore, Rey Mystero Jr, Nova.. 9 total wow Jason Jett is still down at HWA. They could also go get Elix Skipper back & let him do the "Primetime" gimmick And this is for Anglesault: Vertebreaker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 11, 2002 <--- Longs for the Helms/Jett feud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
