Money in the bank

[humanoid92 0]

What does everyone really think about money in the bank as a concept?

 

I realize I might be in the minority here, but I really hate it.

 

Maybe it's just because I've never liked #1 contender matches to begin with, but the fact that they're doing this yet again just screams lazy booking to me. It just seems like a transparent way to jam as many people as possible onto the card instead of giving the deserving guys something worthwhile to do, and to add a big clusterfuck spotfest of a ladder match to the card, just for the sake of having a big clusterfuck spotfest of a ladder match.

 

And there's really only a few directions to go with the aftermath.

 

I just see it as lazy booking and really don't care for the idea. The first one was fine, but I hate that it seems to be an annual tradition now. I think it takes away from the show more than it adds to it.

 

Thoughts?

[foleyfanforever88 0]

I like it, but I don't think guys like Edge, Orton, or Booker should be in it. It should be for guys that are just getting up to the ME level, not guys that have already been there. Those kinda guys should be able to have bigger matches for other reasons. MITB should be filled with guys around the level of MVP, Chavo, the Hardys, Kennedy, Shelton, Kenny, Nitro, Punk, etc.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

They're two for two in having good matches with a good storyline coming out of the victory, so in that sense I strongly believe it should be an annual event. A MITB match is exactly where I felt Punk would be come Mania time, and sure enough that's where he is. It does seem odd to have Edge in it again and Booker at all, and while I support the idea that this match could be used to push someone up a tier, kayfabe wise it makes sense for former champs like Edge and Booker to try and earn a shot anytime the want in any match they want at the biggest show of the year.

[Black Lushus 0]

It's a good way of getting top tier guys on the card without overloading it with matches that could be hit or miss.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

But Edge and Booker should be able to get title shots anyways. They should be having high-profile singles matches at WM. My MITB, which is apparently going to have 8 men in it this year, would have been Kennedy vs Nitro vs Punk vs Jeff vs Chavo vs Kenny vs Sabu vs Matt.

[humanoid92 0]

I like it, but I don't think guys like Edge, Orton, or Booker should be in it. It should be for guys that are just getting up to the ME level, not guys that have already been there. Those kinda guys should be able to have bigger matches for other reasons. MITB should be filled with guys around the level of MVP, Chavo, the Hardys, Kennedy, Shelton, Kenny, Nitro, Punk, etc.

 

Interesting take. Although I think that really speaks to a whole other problem they have as far as the logjam at the top. I mean, look at the first match two years ago, with guys like Jericho, Benoit, Kane, etc.- all of them were already well past their run as main eventers, so with the structure the way it is today, they just get stuck in a holding pattern in the upper midcard. Jericho's career was a perfect example.

 

But the thing is, if guys like Edge and Orton shouldn't be in it, why in the world should guys that have been portrayed on the level of Nitro, Kenny, Chavo, MVP, etc. ever have the chance to skip over them and have a crack at becoming the #1 contender?

 

Anyway, just to elaborate on my original post, this is kind of why I find the notion of #1 contender matches to be ridiculous in the first place. There are no standings or organized tiers in wrestling, so how can there be #1 contender matches? How do you qualify for the right to be in a #1 contender match? Why not have matches to qualify for the contenders matches? And then how do you qualify for those? How far does it go back? For years and years, the top challengers always filtered their way to the top. It worked itself out because of strong booking. To me, #1 contender matches started as an excuse for lazy booking (it's no coincidence that they really became prevelant during the Russo era, by the way). It allows for lazy booking because instead of just logically piecing things together to establish a credible top contender, you can just say "ok, here are two (or in this case, eight) guys- just throw them together and we'll get our contender."

 

I think the notion of this type of match kind of cheapens the Rumble too. Granted, the Rumble is the Rumble and it will always sell, but to me the Rumble was always the one event that supposedly allowed underdogs, and those that wouldn't otherwise have a shot, to have a chance. And the prize was legitimate- a title shot at Wrestlemania. But now if you're just going to have another big contenders match at Wrestlemania, where does it end? Why not have contenders matches at every PPV for the following PPV?

 

So that's what I mean when I say in my opinion it's lazy booking.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Yes, Booker and Edge should be in the running for pre-scheduled matches under match stipulations decided upon by someone in a match booking capacity.

 

The Money in the Bank winner can (and already have) use their contract to get the jump on a weakened champion or make a match to suit their best interests.

[humanoid92 0]

Generally speaking, I always preferred how guys like Bret and Shawn just simply rose to the top over time. It all unfolded in a very logical way and really meant something once they finally got there. I love how Shawn ended up getting to the top, even though I was always a huge Bret guy. The way they handled him was perfect. Today, everything is paint-by-numbers and rushed. If things were handled then the way are today, Shawn would have been the champion by the summer of '94. Wouldn't have had nearly the same effect as it did with the slow (and logical) build.

 

Even guys that took the world by storm all of a sudden, like Diesel, got their spot without the use of cheap booking tricks that are all over the place today.

 

It seems like today every push is cookie cutter and the trigger has to be pulled right away, and to me, MITB comes across as an extension of that booking philosophy.

[Black Lushus 0]

Edge's push was cookie cutter? They spent the last half of 05 building him up.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I think it's a worthwhile concept, but it will have run its course after this event.

[Black Lushus 0]

agreed...especially if the winner always wins the belt eventually.

 

Somehow, the Rumble has escaped that.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

I'm sure this has been discussed in other threads, but how awesome would it be if HBK won the title from Cena, only to have Edge (the MITB winner) cash in his title shot immediately after and leave WM with the title? I would LOVE that, even as a huge HBK fan.

[Black Lushus 0]

I dunno, that last hot switch at WM didn't go over well...

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

There are pros and cons to every argument and this is no different. Sometimes just pushing a guy up the ladder through normal booking isn't enough to make the casual fan go "wow, this guy is worth watching". It doesn't help that said booking usually results in unnecessary losses just to show that due paying is more important than money making.

 

I could certainly see Punk winning the match and using the title shot as his right to jump to Raw (which has been rumoured). He will of course lose to Michaels (here's hoping!) in a good showing with a handshake. The casual Raw viewers who probably don't like the ECW brand could be like "hey, this guy from ECW, he IS pretty cool".

 

I realize that above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely, and a phone call I took while typing this made me lose my original train of thought... but yeah, there might be a point somewhere in there.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

I dunno, that last hot switch at WM didn't go over well...

 

It would play out perfectly though. It would establish Edge as an even bigger heel than he already is. Seriously, the heel heat on him would be insane. It would give a new ending to the MITB concept. It would add 2 more wins to Edge's WM streak and Taker could win the WHT at the end of the night to leave the crowd with a good ending. Then you can do Edge vs Taker at WM24. If I was booking, I wouldn't think twice about this option.

[humanoid92 0]

Not necessarily Edge's. That last post wasn't specifically about MITB, just the way they seem to handle elevating guys and their general booking philosophies. I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth about that in this thread.

 

Anyway, the real point of the thread was just that I don't see the point in matches like MITB and to me it's uninspired booking. Earlier, you said it's a good way to get top tier guys on the card- my whole argument is that it's just a way to jam them on there- not necessarily a good way.

 

Going back to what I was saying about the fundamental problem with #1 contender matches in general, once those exist every so often, why then should anybody care about other matches? If a #1 contender match is just a shortcut to hijacking your way into a title shot, then why do other major matches exist. I guess I don't like the whole aspect of having it spelled out. With good booking, you can establish a guy as a top contender by having him evolve and progress over time to the point where he's a legitimate top contender. There's some underlying progression there. They don't have to spell it out for you by creating the status of having a #1 contender. Russo used that crap all the time because he had no idea how to actually build someone up. Of course titles changed hands every two weeks anyway, so it's not like it mattered much. I know it's only once a year, so MITB isn't really *that* bad in the grand scheme of things. It's just the notion behind it that I don't like.

 

If they are going to do this though, I do like that there's actually a briefcase as a symbol of their status (which also provides a logical reason to make it a ladder match in the first place) but I still think the concept behind the idea is lazy.

[Black Lushus 0]

I dunno, that could TARNISH Edge...he can only win a title by beating an already exhausted champion? Weak sauce!

[Perfxion 0]

It fits the storyline, Edge could win the Money in the Bank match AGAIN, and win the title back after the main event of a match again. But this doesn't make for lazy booking, it fits the gimmick of the people in the match. It also adds a good match to a card to keep the crowd hot for a 4 hour PPV.

 

Who would want to see MVP, CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, MATT F'N HARDY and ect in WORLD TITLE matches on PPV? Who would pay to see Taker vs Matt Hardy in May for the world title?

[Black Lushus 0]

if Orton is in, he'll win and face Cena next year at WM, calling it right now.

[Hawk 34 0]

I dunno, that last hot switch at WM didn't go over well...

 

Having Edge cash in later that night to take the title from Shawn (which I've been calling for weeks, even before Edge was slotted into the match) can work on many levels. First off, it's a great heel move for Edge and gives that MitB stipulation something different this time around and it's "unpredictable". It also adds heat to the DX/RRKO feud that WILL continue upon Hunter's return this summer. By setting up a spot with Edge being ultra sneaky during the MitB match by staying away from the carnage and sneaking in to capture the briefcase from Orton and another face (Punk, for example). He comes off looking more of an asshole by virtually stealing the briefcase by staying out of the fray and marching down later that night completely fresh and capitalizing once again on a tired champion. Shawn gets that brief moment with a flukish method, Cena gives respect to Shawn. Edge interupts the celebration and takes the title.

 

Best of all, it's not the main event so they won't need to worry about pissing off the crowd and sending them home angry. Put a filler match or segment to calm the crowd down before the main event. That does depend on them not being stupid and having Batista win. That'd murder the crowd big time.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

I dunno, that could TARNISH Edge...he can only win a title by beating an already exhausted champion? Weak sauce!

 

It fits his character though. Last time, they screwed it up by having him lose the belt back to Cena after just 3 weeks. But this time, he could retain the title cleanly at Backlash against Cena and HBK (they seem to like having triple threats at Backlash), defend against Orton at the next PPV and retain, and then finally lose the title at say Summerslam after a good 4-5 month reign.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Well they've been calling that one for years now (by "that one", I mean Orton in a singles Maniavent, not just Cena vs Orton) so yeah, it's gotta happen one year right?

 

Off topic: "Maniavent" - clever portmanteau of Mania Main Event or annoying word?

[humanoid92 0]

I dunno, that last hot switch at WM didn't go over well...

 

It would play out perfectly though. It would establish Edge as an even bigger heel than he already is. Seriously, the heel heat on him would be insane. It would give a new ending to the MITB concept. It would add 2 more wins to Edge's WM streak and Taker could win the WHT at the end of the night to leave the crowd with a good ending. Then you can do Edge vs Taker at WM24. If I was booking, I wouldn't think twice about this option.

 

I actually pushed for this last year if they were going to have Flair go over in MITB. Since everyone was convinced HHH was going over Cena, this would have been worked to give the fans the happy ending. And it would have made sense for Flair to cash in right away since he's an old man and has never closed out WM and whatnot.

 

I think there's something to this idea, because like I said, and like Al said, the concept will eventually run it's course. There's really only a few directions to go.

 

A) Guy waits and cashes in after a champ has just won a hard fought match

B) Guy challenges champion for major match ahead of time (which is really no different than how a typical PPV or Raw match is built up)

C) Guy challenges champion same night he wins (yet to be done).

 

Outside of another idea I read on here about two guys coming down with the briefcase and both getting a shot (which is an interesting twist but sounds a bit contrived and hard to pull off) what else is there to really be done?

 

Still, I don't think the cards are stacking up correctly for that to happen this year. Simply because something like that would have to go on last, and I think Taker will go over Batista last, and I can't see them using this scenario with him.

[Black Lushus 0]

well, certainly not as bad as WW e F

[foleyfanforever88 0]

Man, the more I think about Edge cashing in against Shawn and winning, and after reading Hawk's post on it, the more I want it to happen. I would let Taker lose to Batista if they had Edge win the title.

 

And "maniavent" is an annoying word.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Yeah, it's not testing very well. Consider it dropped for now.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Not necessarily Edge's. That last post wasn't specifically about MITB, just the way they seem to handle elevating guys and their general booking philosophies. I probably shouldn't have opened my mouth about that in this thread.

 

Anyway, the real point of the thread was just that I don't see the point in matches like MITB and to me it's uninspired booking. Earlier, you said it's a good way to get top tier guys on the card- my whole argument is that it's just a way to jam them on there- not necessarily a good way.

 

Going back to what I was saying about the fundamental problem with #1 contender matches in general, once those exist every so often, why then should anybody care about other matches? If a #1 contender match is just a shortcut to hijacking your way into a title shot, then why do other major matches exist. I guess I don't like the whole aspect of having it spelled out. With good booking, you can establish a guy as a top contender by having him evolve and progress over time to the point where he's a legitimate top contender. There's some underlying progression there. They don't have to spell it out for you by creating the status of having a #1 contender. Russo used that crap all the time because he had no idea how to actually build someone up. Of course titles changed hands every two weeks anyway, so it's not like it mattered much. I know it's only once a year, so MITB isn't really *that* bad in the grand scheme of things. It's just the notion behind it that I don't like.

 

If they are going to do this though, I do like that there's actually a briefcase as a symbol of their status (which also provides a logical reason to make it a ladder match in the first place) but I still think the concept behind the idea is lazy.

Number one contender matches are a hallmark of wrestling, and a perfectly acceptable way of choosing a challenger. I think everyone can agree that it is a logical move. That said, is it a lazy move to have an annual match to choose a contender? I don't see how it would rank much different from the Royal Rumble or the King of the Ring tournament. We're not talking about a common match that continually propels undeserving wrestlers to title matches. Both times it has been used to create title matches that would otherwise be nearly impossible to book under normal conditions. The concept itself is fine. The only danger is that there are only so many times you can book a six-man ladder match on an annual show before they start to run together in the fans' minds. It's not a match that lends itself to storytelling.

 

That said, is it just a lazy way to throw a bunch of wrestlers on the undercard? Perhaps. But would it be better to book 2-4 of them in less meaningful matches and leave the others off the card? Others might prefer it that way. I honestly think the match is more exciting than traditional matches, so I like the concept. You might not, and that is valid.

[Black Lushus 0]

want to book Edge as the uber-heel? Have him beat UTr, steal the title AND end the streak...

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

The LAZIEST bookings are matches like the 15 minute Hardcore Invitational and the "Mania Leftovers" battle royals they've done two years in a row now. I give those a pass since they're dark matches / DVD extras.

[foleyfanforever88 0]

want to book Edge as the uber-heel? Have him beat UTr, steal the title AND end the streak...

 

But that doesn't work as well, because of the RKO/DX feud. And also, if you want to look back a few years, remember when Edge kept complaining about how HBK kept screwing him out of the title? Revenge is sweet.