Let's Talk About...Vince Russo's first stint booking WCW

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Didn't The Radicalz end up jumping to The WWF/E because Russo was being replaced after 3 months on the job by Sullivan? I mean I'm sure there were other factors involved in their decision to leave, but I still think that was a big endorsement of sorts by those 4 for Russo. Either that, or they just hated Sullivan with a passion.

They left because Sullivan replaced Russo, not specifically because Russo was replaced.

[King Kamala 0]

I feel like the biggest problem with this stint has kind of been understated by all of us. Good, bad, mediocre- whatever you think of his direction, it was the exact opposite of what WCW fans wanted at that time. The WCW fans still left picked Nitro over RAW for a reason and the WWF fans would never switch over because it was basically a watered down version of WWF. IIRC, right after Bischoff got canned in August '99, WCW sent out a survey at live events asking fans what they wanted to see. And the result basically was they wanted more in-ring action and less backstage segments and promos and whatnot. That was WCW for ya.

 

I know I bagged Summer of '99 WCW a bit in this thread and rightfully so. But the short one-month or so period after Bischoff got canned and before Russo and Ferrera came in wasn't all that bad. At least not as bad as what came before and after (that's becoming a theme in this thread...). I still maintain that Sting's heel turn was fairly well done, from a booking standpoint. It bombed because WCW fans would never ever accept Sting as a heel and Hogan's act was tired at that point that it was hard to muster any enthusiasm for him. Actually I remember the Nitro before Russo came in (the one highlighted by the Owen Hart tribute match between Bret Hart and Chris Benoit) was one of the best Nitros they did in months.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah but that Bret/Owen match was basically done on a lame duck Nitro where they had nothing booked and just threw them out there to kill time for lack of anything else. It worked for 1 night, but it's not really a long term solution.

 

WCW was so utterly horrible for most of 1999. I mean just the worst trash ever put on TV. 10x worse than anything Russo ever could think of doing, which is at least silly and moves quickly. I almost wish Nitro was up to mid 1999 on 24/7 so people here could see the full extent of how putrid those shows were. Enough to drive a man to drink level bad. Just 3 hours of ponderous, inane, boring, offensive SHIT. No redeeming value.

 

At least that inital Russo "Powers That Be" era grabbed you by the balls. It wasn't good from a wrestling standpoint, but it certainly was different from the tedium WCW had been producing. Almost all of it goes into the guilty pleasure category, and in fact I almost preferred that late 1999 insane stuff to the WWF's late 99 output (which kinda ran out of steam once HHH started getting pushed, and before Foley put him over).

 

I think Starrcade 99 and the aftermath of that show are what initially doomed Russo. It was a bad PPV with a goofy Montreal inspired main event, and then the chaos of Oct.-Nov. basically led to another lame rehash of the NWO. Then of course things spiralled completely out of control in late Dec. and early Jan. of 2000, with everyone getting hurt, having concussions, slicing their arms, etc. I actually maintain the dumbest move WCW made was Bill Busch removing Russo and naming Sullivan as booker. Was Russo wanting to put the belt on Tank Abbott a dumb idea? Of course. But why fire him over this? Was this stupid idea really worth demoting the guy and causing a mutiny? Bill Busch had zero idea of how to manage a crisis situation. All he had to do was tell Russo "Uh, no...Tank Abbott isn't an acceptable world champion. Put the title on someone else that fans see as a viable contender." Hell, they could have done the battle royale and have the last 2 guys be Sid and Benoit and let them do a main event match out of it. Would half the roster have demanded their release? Hell no.

[King Kamala 0]

I think the worst attribute of Russo's booking is not his love for worked shoot angles or his pubescent ideas for mid carders' gimmicks (HUGH G. RECTION!? HAW!) but his complete lack of patience. Since The Powers That Be angle wasn't capturing the wrestling fans imaginations (except cabbageboy's apparently...), he immediately became desparate with those dumbshit nWo and Montreal retreads. As he became more and more desparate in WCW, his ideas got worse and worse.

[BUTT 0]

Lost cause, if only because the establishment known as Turner continued to change who was running the show, and the "top tier" talent was uncooperative to the point where they refused to put ANYBODY over (the only minor exception is Nash/Booker from Fall Brawl '00, which was so past-due it didn't matter).

That was only after Nash politicked to be the one to beat Booker for the title. I remember reading for weeks leading up to Nash's title win that he was urging Russo to let him win the title and then lose it back in order to elevate Booker. Why Nash would want a three-week title run is beyond my comprehension but I suppose it's better than nothing.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Didn't The Radicalz end up jumping to The WWF/E because Russo was being replaced after 3 months on the job by Sullivan? I mean I'm sure there were other factors involved in their decision to leave, but I still think that was a big endorsement of sorts by those 4 for Russo. Either that, or they just hated Sullivan with a passion.

The latter, especially Benoit. It was regarding his wife, who was Kevin's ex, and his belief that the World title he was given was just a "stay here" tactic and they would stop pushing him the moment he re-signed. Dean and Eddie were already set on leaving, more so Eddie than Dean, and Saturn was fed up with how he had been treated following the Flock and tag team with Raven. So they left primarily due to Sullivan, because you know Russo would at least have pushed Benoit (which he WAS doing), and prolly even Saturn. Maybe not Eddie or Dean, but he would have tried to at least give them something to do. That's about the most positive thing I can say regarding Russo in that stint, and in any stint in WCW or TNA: he tried to give everybody something to do, oftentimes to less than desirable results, but at LEAST he tried.

 

Oh yeah, and I can pinpoint the perfect example that Russo can, at TIMES, be a halfway decent booker: TNA, October '02 through October '03 when he was replaced by Dutch to try to appease Hogan. Most of what he did went nowhere, but this time saw the rise of AJ Styles to a semi-believable main event talent, the push of Chris Sabin, Jeff Jarrett being interesting for the first time in his career, and Glenn "Disco Inferno" Gilberti being treated as a semi-serious character for once. Of course, most of it all went to shit, but at least the RIDE was fun, eh? Even if the destination was ultimately a tree on the side of the road, at least it was fun to drive from your house into it down the road, right? Right?!

[cabbageboy 0]

It's sort of tough to fully explain my thoughts on Russo's WCW booking. After the previous 6 months of WCW TV shows, Russo's stuff at least seemed fast paced and interesting. It didn't draw any money, it wasn't really GOOD or anything, but it did at least command attention. And say what you want about Russo, but at least he didn't book something as utterly horrific and mindnumbing as the Hummer Angle.

 

The Hummer Angle....now there's a fun potential topic for some truly ranting debate on here. Maybe I should start that thread once this one runs its course.

[King Kamala 0]

The Hummer Angle....now there's a fun potential topic for some truly ranting debate on here. Maybe I should start that thread once this one runs its course.

 

Feel free to use that as The Let's Talk About...topic next week.

 

The only thing very mildly amusing about that whole angle was how it was abandoned once Bischoff got canned and I think on the first or second Nitro after he came back, they revealed it was him in a very lazy manner. It was like an hour before the Nitro they realized they had forgotten that angle for months and decided to come up with the most half-assed way to end it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

And say what you want about Russo, but at least he didn't book something as utterly horrific and mindnumbing as the Hummer Angle.

Turning Sting into The Torch qualifies as utterly horrific and mindnumbing.

[cabbageboy 0]

Well, I will mention this in more detail in that thread but was Bischoff even the actual driver originally or was this just a goofy joke done as a nod to the original angle? I don't recall them ever saying that Bischoff was who originally hit Nash, and in fact it makes literally zero sense if he had been the original driver.

[BUTT 0]

I always thought Bischoff driving the Hummer into Hogan's limo was just an in-joke, a "wink-nod" mocking of old WCW booking.

 

The thing is, the Hummer storyline could have been a good angle if they were smarter about it. First, they shouldn't have done it a week before the PPV. It should have been three or four weeks before the show. (Well, it shouldn't have been three weeks, because then it would have been the night after Owen's death and they probably would have gotten complaints about it (at the very least I know internet fans would have bitched about it since they found fault in everything WCW did and they even complained about Sting descending from the rafters at Slamboree 2000 in the Kemper Arena which DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN and it still was voted the number 11 worst promotional move in the RSPW Awards in 2000 but that's a story for another day!) but the point is that a week isn't enough time for that kind of angle.) Nash needed to be gone for a couple of weeks to sell the injury but he could do taped promos from bed and phone interviews saying he was coming back at the Bash to kick Savage's ass. Savage would then say that the guy who hit Nash with the hummer was coming to the Bash too. And of course, it would be Sid, and that would lead into a Nash-Sid feud which I would rather not have seen but whatever. Even with how they did it, it should have been simple with Sid being revealed as the driver, but they had to keep it going and it went nowhere. Remember when Savage did a promo before Road Wild '99 where he said the driver of the Hummer would be with him. And then at the show they just forgot about it? Weak.

 

I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the feud as it was, what with memorable moments like Nash spraying shit into Savage's limo and the Macho Man emerging screaming "SON OF A BITCH! SON OF A BITCH!" and then the next week Nash bringing a small woman in a duffel bag into the ring to dump a bucket of shit on Savage's head. If you just had one angle like that in a feud, it's great. With two shit-themed angles, it's amazing. When you take two shit-themed angles and add to it a dude driving a Hummer into a limo...well, that can only be called the greatest angle of all time.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

How was Carmen Electra supposed to fit as the driver (or was that a false rumor)?

[King Kamala 0]

She did it for Rodman!

[cabbageboy 0]

Haha, this is great. I'm still trying to remember all of the various details so I can spin this off into a Hummer thread later in the week. When should I post it?

[BUTT 0]

Whenever your heart wills you to.

[King Kamala 0]

Well if you want to be a Let's Talk About... thread, you'll have to wait till Friday since we've enacted an official one Let's Talk About... thread a week rule but you can call it something else if you want to post it sooner. Call it Behind The Angle or something and we can have another weekly thread!

[Guest Smues]

A Russo quote from back during his first WCW run.

 

One thing about me, that I've said a million times, is that all

storylines start with logic.

 

Heh

[King Kamala 0]

Haw. Any Russo apologists want to try to explain the "logics" behind The Powers That Be angle?

[Guest]

That there was no logic? He watches too many soap operas. Like that Passions shit.

[cabbageboy 0]

I'll just wait until Friday and start a Let's Talk about the Hummer thread.

 

I wish we could just FF through 1998 on 24/7 and get to these horrible 1999 Nitro shows. I want to see the 3 hour breakneck insanity that was Russo's initial stuff. Can you imagine a 3 hour show of crazy crash TV angles, 3 minute matches, skits, burlesque? It was the exact opposite of what WCW had been doing if nothing else. Before it was an ultra boring 3 hours that was a snooze, but then it became a 3 hour demolition derby under Russo.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

I bumped a Hummer thread for y'all

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

A Russo quote from back during his first WCW run.

 

One thing about me, that I've said a million times, is that all

storylines start with logic.

 

Heh

Russo was big on talking about logic being important, but his idea of what's logical is unlike that of everybody else.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Russo and David Flair skit.......

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9srjJjXT5AU

 

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

I was probably just too markish yet, but I really enjoyed the Flair/David match that ended in Russo shaving Flair's head. When did the Hell in the Cell-esque cage match between Russo and Flair take place? Russo climbed through the top of the cage amid a bunch of other craziness. I'd like a youtube of that crap again.

[BUTT 0]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2s3br_ri...teel-cage_sport

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2n5o4_ri...vid-flair_sport

 

There you go, Bruiser.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Awesome!!!!!

[Enigma 0]

Everytime I think how WCW at the end couldn't have been that bad, I watch the Flair/Russo cage match that I was almost suckered into attending live.

 

Then I remember it was that bad.

[BUTT 0]

The thing is, from what I remember, and this was 8 years ago and I don't have a great desire to watch that Dailymotion vid I posted, but the Flair-Russo match actually was pretty good. I think I remember Meltzer saying that if Flair had gone over clean it would have been ***. And if 51-year-old Ric Flair could have a good match with freakin' Vince Russo, well, that's pretty amazing.

[BUTT 0]

Actually, that particular Nitro contained about 5 things that exemplified what was wrong with WCW at the time:

 

- Russo pinning Flair

- Bischoff winning the Hardcore title

- Giving away Goldberg's return match on free TV

- Scott Hudson using the term "Dusty Finish" on live TV in response to Sting's title win over Jarrett being overturned

- Nash beating a whole bunch of New Blood dudes in a gauntlet match in which, inexplicably, when he knocked his opponents to the mat, the referee counted them dow for the pin! He didn't even have to cover them to pin them! What was that?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

The thing is, from what I remember, and this was 8 years ago and I don't have a great desire to watch that Dailymotion vid I posted, but the Flair-Russo match actually was pretty good. I think I remember Meltzer saying that if Flair had gone over clean it would have been ***. And if 51-year-old Ric Flair could have a good match with freakin' Vince Russo, well, that's pretty amazing.

It wasn't long after that match that Russo made the comment that they should teach actors how to work, because if he (Russo) can do it, anyone can. If Russo's ego would allow it, someone should have informed him that his 'wrestling' is as bad as his writing, and the only reason that match didn't stink was because Ric Flair was carrying his worthless ass.