Guest Austin3164life Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 Some of the matches on here should be moved around. I think Austin/Bret from Survivor Series 96 is better than Rock vs. Austin WM XV, or Rock vs. Triple H Judgement Day. Where is Austin/HBK vs. Owen/Bulldog? I think that's the best free tv match (but I wont argue with Austin vs. Benoit). I think the top three matches of all time are: 1. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (WM XIII): Without this match, Wrestlemania 13 looked like a terrible IYH. Both men did it all in this match. Very good brawling and a nice array of submission moves and power moves. The crowd heat this match garnered is like none other, after they had been dead from the previous matches. In about 25 minutes, Austin and Hart put on a very impressive display of "Who's the better icon?". The way a wrestler was viewed was inevitably changed in this match. An excellent match, and excellent crowd, and an excellent ending to the best match in the modern area of pro-wrestling..... 2. Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage (WM III): Not only did this match have the impact that the Main Event had later that night, but this match was a combination of technique, brawling, and quick paced action. I don't know how many breathtaking pinfalls there were in that match, but it sure had my heart beating. Steamboat put on a great performance, and Randy Savage just added so much as well. Randy looked like a true heel by trying everything to keep his IC Title. Ricky looked like he had the heart of a lion by kicking out after everything Savage dished out. A match to truly steal your breath, and to steal a crowd of 93,173 is incredible..... 3. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (WM X): Miraculously, Vince and King put on some good commentating, as the Harts put on an excellent display of all around ring technique. There was high flying, high impact, technique, and brawling. It totally showed that Owen really wanted to step out of Bret's shadow, and Bret wanted to teach Owen a lesson. I'll never forget this match, because it started off that night perfectly. People just expected Bret to pin Owen but Owen kicked out and it made the crowd wonder who would win. It looked like Bret was going to win with his victory roll-up, but Owen the crafty heel just sat down and pinned Bret Hart shoulders to the mat. The crowd at MSG was shocked and so was I as Owen "jumped out of Bret's shadow" as Lawler put it..... *These are my top three choices. They all had everything. Agree with me or not, I just think these three made a huge impact on modern pro-wrestling.*
Guest undisputedjericho Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 No Shane vs. Angle street fight?
Guest Goodear Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 Unfortunately, most mindless marks today who chant “WHAT?!” every second of a RAW show couldn’t tell you who Randy Savage or Ricky Steamboat even are, let alone when their legendary match took place. Okay, I'm a pretty calm guy a whole lot of the time but whoever wrote this just supremely pissed me off. Look, I know everyone loves to climb up on a pedestal and claim that they're smarter and know know more than the average fan. And that's perfectly acceptable, since they most likely do. But to claim that the average fan doesn't know who RANDY SAVAGE is?!?!?! RANDY SAVAGE!!! He's like in the top five most recognizable wrestlers in the history of the business. He was just in Spider-Man for the love of all that's holy. Go up to anyone you know and go "Ohhhhhhh yeah" and they will know who you're talking about. So spare me this "Everyone's a moron except me" crap, I'm sick of it. If Gorrilla Monsoon shows up on the Titantron at a show, he will get a ovation. The guys from the gimmick battle royal got tons of love from the people. The fans know things. Deal with it. Half of those people are still at home creaming themselves everytime they watch Rob Van Dam knock Jeff Hardy off a ladder, because they think they’re watching the greatest match of all time. SO FUCKING WHAT?!?! Some people watch wrestling and LIKE IT. Is that such a bad thing? What do you do? Sit in your office, wearing a bowler hat and twirling you cane? Saying to yourself, "Oh tosh. That Jeffrey and Robert sure aren't as good as that Lou Thez- Ed "The Stranger" Lewis battle in nineteen-aught-six where Lewis slapped on his trademark headlock for the victory. I pitty the poor fools who watch this tripe and enjoy it." Get off your fucking high horse, yah fucking snob.
Guest Perfect Plex Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 (Gives Goodear a much-needed hug)
Guest Goodear Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 What the world needs now.... is love.... sweet love. It's the only thing there's just .... too little of....
Guest dreamer420 Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 it seemed like half of the matches were written from a mark standpoint and the other half was a smark standpoint.
Guest Brian Posted June 24, 2002 Report Posted June 24, 2002 My ballot for the DVDVR Top twenty WWE matches of the nineties from memory: 1. Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair - Iron Man Match, Boston House Show Best match you may never see. Doesn't have the feel of an iron man match, of an hour long match, but that doesn't mean the gimmick is misutilized. It's gauge of how good everything is in this match that you don't feel confined. I rate all matches in the WWE with this match in mind. Only match on this list I will give ***** any day, no problem, no second thoughts. 2. Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania X The essence of match built on mat wrestling and chain sequences. Dug everything about it. 3. Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - SummerSlam 1995 I'm still debating what order I had this and the next pick. This was super, super psychology; the best I've ever seen in a Shawn match because he did a great job building, something I criticize him and Bret for not doing. Finish aside, an excellent match. 4. SCSA vs. Bret Hart - Survivor Series The much more technically sound match of the two. 5. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind - Mind Games The best match ever without a finish. I could have given this top spot consideration had there not been so many run-ins at the end. 6. SCSA vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania 13 A very, very good match. Lacked in one area; Austin never used the Million Dollar Dream despite that being his only true submission hold and that he had success with it. 7. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - WrestleMania X It's hard seeing this match so late, as it's very innovative but it's also patterned after the Stampede ladder match. 8. Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker Don't have a lot to say. Very good, excellent use of building the whole psychology of the match around the gimmick, especially a fresh one. 9. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - SummerSlam 1994 10. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - Iron Man Match from unknown house show in 1994 Very, very good iron man match. I'll get to 11-20 later.
Guest slabinskia Posted June 25, 2002 Report Posted June 25, 2002 here is what i think is a more reasonable top 50.of course no one can agree on placement of matches but this is just my thoughts. 1.bret-austin wm13 2.savage-steamboat wm3 3.hbk-razor wm10 4.bret-austin ss96 5.flair-bret ironman match 6.hbk-foley mind games 7.hbk-taker bad blood 8.hhh-austin no way out 9.savage-flair wm8 10.rr92 rumble match 11.bret-perfect ss91 12.hhh-foley rr00 13.bret-owen wm10 14.bret-hbk ironman match 15.bret-dibiase wwf early 89 from best of wwf vol19 16.rockers-brainbusters 2/3 falls snme 17.hbk-deisel iyh good friends better enemies 18.bret-buldog ss92 19.savage-warriar wm7 20.hbk/deisel-razor/kid action zone late 94 21.hhh-rock ironman match 22.bret-taker one night only 23.hbk-razor ss95 24.hardys-dudleys-e&c wm00 25.bret-piper wm8 26.rock-austin wm17 27.bret-owen ss94 28.taker-foley kotr 98 29.benoit-jericho rr01 30.austin-foley over the edge 98 31.hhh-rock ss98 32.benoit-angle wm17 33.10 man tag canadian stampede 34.bret-steamboat 1985-86 35.hbk-sid ss96 36.bret-taker-vader-austin final four 37.hbk-marty janetty raw 5/93 38.flair-perfect raw 1/93 39.bret-perfect kotr 93 40.brain busters-strike force wm5 41.hardys-e&c no mercy 99 42.rock-foley rr99 43.angle-shane kotr 01 44.perfect-owen wm5 45.hogan-warriar wm6 46.tag team survivor match ss88 47.austin-hbk wm14 48.tag team survivor match ss87 49.hardys-dudleys rr00 50.bret-backland ss94
Guest CanadianChris Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 Wow, that's pretty good. I'd throw these on there somewhere, though: - Owen/Bulldog European tournament final from RAW in 1997 - Benoit-Jericho/Austin-HHH tag title match from RAW last year - Benoit/Austin from SmackDown last year - any of the Benoit/Jericho matches from 1999 - Austin/Michaels from King of the Ring 1997 (far superior to the WM match, and understandably so) And a personal fave of mine... - Hogan/Orndorff in the cage (the tied finish) from SNME in 1987 (this was the first "big" wrestling match I ever saw)
Guest Austin3164life Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 I think the best free tv match (or Raw Match) was Austin/HBK vs. Owen/Bulldog for the tag titles. Excellent workrate, the match took about 25 minutes on a one hour show, and an excellent twisty-turny finish, which saw the Hart Foundation beat up Shawn Michaels and Austin attack a crippled Bret Hart......
Guest BobbyBacklund Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 About your bashing of Bret-Austin WM13(Brian), I knew a guy who thought that it was just a "great" match, but not much else. Than he basically wrote a column about how the match is not about Austin not quitting, it's about Bret becoming what he hates, which is a dirty cheater, which explains his turn at the end. I'm sure he posts on this board somewhere...
Guest Brian Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 I mean there's a lot of great storylines involved and being played out in this match, but compared to Survivor Series but it didn't build as well off their other matches but rather the entertainment side of things.
Guest Perfect Plex Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 it seemed like half of the matches were written from a mark standpoint and the other half was a smark standpoint. I would say that's very accurate, and not surprising. We all have a little 10 year old mark in us, or else we probably wouldn't be here. On another note, I want to know something. I'm sure I'll probably get negative feedback, but here goes... Is there anyone on this Earth besides myself that thinks the HBk/Razor ladder matches are a little...well...overrated? (ducks) I mean sure, they were innovative and kept us on the edge of our seats, and I love both of these guys, but these matches have now been outdone time and time again. There is nothing about the two that hasn't been improved upon, IMHO. And besides that, is there anyone who feels that the WM10 one was FAR FAR superior to the SS95 one? Maybe it was just that the "latter Ladder" match had the grating commentary of Cock Hendrix, but I thought it was slow and tedious in comparison.
Guest NoCalMike Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 What about some of the classic battles between The Rockers and Orient Express. The bumps in the matches might not have been as "exciting" as someone going through a table, but certainly the workrate was much better. Dudleys/Hardys make at least 2 appearances on the Top 50, but no Rockers/Orient Express.....argh
Guest HBK WILL ROT IN HELL Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 Good on you man for doing your list. Its only his opinon and what you enjoyed. So I don't know why people are telling him HIS opinion his wrong. Their good to read even if you don't happen to agree with them. And I appreicate the effort you made man.
Guest Anorak Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 What about some of the classic battles between The Rockers and Orient Express. The bumps in the matches might not have been as "exciting" as someone going through a table, but certainly the workrate was much better. Dudleys/Hardys make at least 2 appearances on the Top 50, but no Rockers/Orient Express.....argh I agree, the RR 91 match was great. I've got a couple of points concerning the first list. The Jericho/Angle/Benoit match from Mania 2000 never impressed me much really, i always thought it was really flat. For a similar type match i'd much rather watch Jericho/Benoit/Guerrero/X-Pac IC fourway from NWO 2001. Hardyz/Dudleys Cage match from shoudn't be on any best matches list. Funk/Foley isn't worth inclusion because its pointless considering their matches elsewhere. Rock/Austin at Mania 17 and Jericho/HHH from Jugement Day 2000 should be a bit higher, they will definately stand the test of time. As a tag-team fan i'd love for someone someday to make a top 50 matches list listing the best tag matches. There's been some amazing tag matches over the years in numerous places, WWF, WCW, ECW and SMW in the US for a start and you could also include classic AJPW, NJPW, M-Pro, AAA and AJW matches. It wouldn't be hard to get 50 genuinely great matches out of that lot, you would probably have a hard time deciding what to leave out or end up making it 50+ matches to include everything. It would probably take a real Anorak (not me) to put together something like that but it would be really great. There's plenty of famous or revered singles matches that find their way on to lists which can't hold a candle to some tag matches from the last 15 years or so. What do people think?
Guest slabinskia Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 anyone think my top 50 is better?if there were ones i left out its because i only saw them once and cant remember that much about them
Guest Brian Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 I find the second ladder match beter because the psycholgoy ran so much deeper (and it was one of the few times Shawn actually built off a prior match) and they built off the last match. The thing about the first ladder match is that it totally went the way of the Stampede ladder match, which isn't to say it's not good, but that it was a carbon of that match. The second match was so much more unique in that sense; the pacing solid. I was actually wondering what ladder match that has been put on that is actually better than these two, because I can't think of any?
Guest benoitrulz4life Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 Well, one other person's done it, so I'll be the second My Top Fifty (Based on Historical Impact and Match Quality, weighted more to the latter): 1. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania XIII (3/23/97) 2. Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels - WrestleMania X (3/20/94) 3. Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon - SummerSlam '95 (8/27/95) 4. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - WrestleMania X (3/20/94) 5. Randy Savage vs. Rick Steamboat - WrestleMania III (3/29/87) 6. Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith - SummerSlam '92 (8/29/92) 7. Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind - Mind Games (9/22/96) 8. Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania VI (4/1/90) 9. Steve Austin vs. Triple-H - No Way Out 2001 (2/25/01) 10. Triple-H vs. Cactus Jack - Royal Rumble 2000 (1/23/00) 11. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian - No Mercy '99 (10/17/99) 12. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels - Badd Blood (10/5/97) 13. Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart - WrestleMania XII (3/31/96) 14. Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior - WrestleMania VII (3/24/91) 15. The Undertaker vs. Mankind - King of the Ring '98 (6/28/98) 16. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart - Survivor Series '96 (11/17/96) 17. Steve Austin & Triple-H vs. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho - WWF RAW (5/21/01) 18. Triple-H vs. The Rock - Judgment Day 2000 (5/21/00) 19. Bret Hart vs. Curt Hennig - SummerSlam '91 (8/26/91) 20. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart - SummerSlam '94 (8/29/94) 21. Steve Austin vs. Dude Love - Over the Edge '98 (5/31/98) 22. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz - SummerSlam 2000 (8/27/00) 23. Royal Rumble - Royal Rumble 1992 (1/19/92) 24. Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett - In Your House #2 (7/23/95) 25. Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty - WWF RAW (5/17/93) 26. Triple-H vs. Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000 (2/27/00) 27. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz - WrestleMania 2000 (4/2/00) 28. Bret Hart vs. Curt Hennig - King of the Ring '93 (6/13/93) 29. The British Bulldogs vs. Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake - WrestleMania II (4/7/86) 30. Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust, & The Legion of Doom vs. Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Brian Pillman, & Jim Neidhart - Canadian Stampede (7/6/97) 31. The British Bulldogs, The Rockers, The Hart Foundation, The Powers of Pain, & The Young Stallions vs. Demolition, The Brainbusters, The Rougeaus, The Bolsheviks, & The Conquistadores - Survivor Series '88 (11/24/88) 32. Bret Hart vs. Ric Flair - Boston House Show (1/9/93) 33. Steve Austin vs. The Rock - WrestleMania X-Seven (4/1/01) 34. The Rock vs. Triple-H - SummerSlam '98 (8/30/98) 35. Shawn Michaels vs. Big Van Vader - SummerSlam '96 (8/16/96) 36. Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage - WrestleMania VIII (4/2/92) 37. Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith - In Your House #5 (12/17/95) 38. Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage - WrestleMania V (4/2/89) 39. The British Bulldogs, Strike Force, The Rougeaus, The Killer Bees, & The Young Stallions vs. Demolition, The Hart Foundation, The Islanders, Greg Valentine & Dino Bravo, & The Bolsheviks - Survivor Series '87 (11/26/87) 40. The Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz - WrestleMania X-Seven (4/1/01) 41. Steve Austin vs. Chris Benoit - WWF SmackDown! (5/?/01) 42. Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho - Royal Rumble 2001 (1/21/01) 43. Owen Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith - WWF RAW (2/25/97) 44. Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel - Good Friends, Better Enemies (4/28/96) 45. The Rock vs. Chris Jericho - No Mercy 2001 (10/25/01) 46. Bret Hart vs. Diesel - Survivor Series '95 (11/17/95) 47. Bret Hart & Owen Hart vs. The Steiner Brothers - Wrestlefest '94 (1/11/94) 48. Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper - WrestleMania VIII (4/2/92) 49. Royal Rumble - Royal Rumble 1990 (1/21/90) 50. The Rock vs. Mankind - Royal Rumble 1999 (1/24/99) I don't think this list is that bad.
Guest slabinskia Posted June 26, 2002 Report Posted June 26, 2002 there were a few i totally forgot about. rockers-orient express rr91 austin-hbk kotr 97 flair/warlord/mountie/dibiase-piper/bret/virgil/buldog ss91 hhh-foley no way out 00
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