Campaign 2008: Canadian Version

[Red Baron 0]

They should be tried as an adult as 14. Seriously these kids these days are drinking, smoking, doing drugs at a young age. You can't tell me that a 14 year old should know not to fire a gun at someone.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

If we're going by that argument in regards to human capabilities a 4 year old has the strength to shoot certain guns. Sure, the kickback would break their arm but the point remains. Youngin's are getting away with far too much shit nowadays.

[Red Baron 0]

16 would be the reasonable arguement.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I don't see why a 2 year age difference should matter when it comes to somebody taking a human life in cold blood. Majority of kids, especially with the violence that's prevelant in todays society are aware of their actions.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I think 16 is a reasonable age because here in the US it's driving age. I'm not sure if it's the same in Canada, but the age should be set at whatever driving age is. If you're responsible to drive a car, which can be a deadly weapon, you're responsible to live up to running someone down with that car if you do so.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Latest Harris-Decima polls show the Tories at 40% and the Liberals and NDP in a dead heat at 21%. Layton must go to bed at night praying that Dion keeps fucking up as badly as he's done so far.

 

Enjoy the majority vote, Stevie.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Followers of Canadian politics, what are the chances you're going to dissolve into two parties like the US anytime soon? Not counting Green (not enough of a threat) and BQ (only run in one province)? Because it seems like Harper has dominated by moving so many parties together. What are the chances that NDP and Liberal merge in the next 5 years?

 

I mean, aside from Layton being Harper's BFF in fighting to keep the Green out of the debate, it just looks like the inevitable way of things. Which is sad, because it means we'll never see a legitimate third party here.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I personally don't see it. There's enough Greens (at least here in Ontario) there were former Liberals and have not-too-fond memories of Bob Rae. Ontario isn't the be-all end-all for this country but we have enough stroke that if we are significantly opposed to something like a merger I doubt it'd happen.

[cbacon 0]

 

oh hello Sania

[cbacon 0]

NDP's Ruby Dhalla

[cbacon 0]

Followers of Canadian politics, what are the chances you're going to dissolve into two parties like the US anytime soon? Not counting Green (not enough of a threat) and BQ (only run in one province)? Because it seems like Harper has dominated by moving so many parties together. What are the chances that NDP and Liberal merge in the next 5 years?

 

We'd sooner have Proportional Representation than any of the left parties merging. Though the former isn't likely in the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

[cbacon 0]

About the juvenile offenders issue: Harper's "tough on crime" platform provides more reliance on the police state and throwing kids in jail rather than addressing the underlying social problems. These sorts of policies do nothing to lower crime rates and will cost us a fortune.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

bacon, I love you and all but I personally would rather see a kid get locked up then placed in the hands of a pussy-arsed social worker who'll do nothing other then coddle the little monster and adress the issue of his father not being around. Agreed though that the social programs in our country are underfunded.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Also, I love our country because we have gorgeous Indian politicians. And just gorgeous everyday Indian girls for that matter. I've had a disturbing case of brown fever lately. Time to hit up a Brampton club.

[The Thread Killer 0]

About the juvenile offenders issue: Harper's "tough on crime" platform provides more reliance on the police state and throwing kids in jail rather than addressing the underlying social problems. These sorts of policies do nothing to lower crime rates and will cost us a fortune.

Yeah, see the Liberal Party already tried that when they scrapped the useless Young Offender's Act and replaced it with the even more unless Youth Criminal Justice Act. All Harper is proposing is a return to what the YOA gave us, since the statistics are out and it proves what those of us who work with Youth Offender's already knew...the YCJA is a useless piece of legislation and is keeping dangerous kids on the streets.

 

Scrapping the YOA and replacing it with the YCJA (which was so poorly constructed and worded that it had loopholes big enough in it to drive a truck through...which lawyers immediately did...which made it useless and eliminated the transfer to adult court clause due to it being a violation of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms) ALSO cost the taxpayers big time. No matter WHAT you do to deal with youth crime, it's going to cost the taxpayers. So THANK YOU Allan Rock and Anne McClellan. Who knew that introducing a new piece of legislation without barely bothering to consult people who actually WORKED in the field it affected would work so badly?

 

And why do people who hold left wing viewpoints care about "the taxpayers" all of the sudden, when it supports the argument they're making...when normally they are all for spending tax dollars for social programs?

 

And is it true that "cbacon" isn't even really Canadian?

 

And why do I care?

 

And who am I asking these questions to?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

bacon is 100% Canuckian.

[The Thread Killer 0]

Oh.

 

I thought somebody once told me he was born somewhere else and moved here.

 

So I guess we can't have him deported then.

 

Oh well.

[cbacon 0]

About the juvenile offenders issue: Harper's "tough on crime" platform provides more reliance on the police state and throwing kids in jail rather than addressing the underlying social problems. These sorts of policies do nothing to lower crime rates and will cost us a fortune.

 

And why do people who hold left wing viewpoints care about "the taxpayers" all of the sudden, when it supports the argument they're making...when normally they are all for spending tax dollars for social programs?

 

And is it true that "cbacon" isn't even really Canadian?

 

And why do I care?

 

And who am I asking these questions to?

 

What's with the hostility, guy?

 

Anyways, taxpayers should have issues with initiatives that don't really address social problems. Prison is not an effective deterrent to crime, nor does it attempt to rehabilitate the criminal. In fact the psychological effects it entails are dangerous. So I see this as wasteful tax dollars being spent which could be better spent on addressing economic and social issues such as inequality and poverty. Gangs, for example, are an avenue kids in lower classes tend to join, so I think programs that address this issue are the way to go.

 

The idea of a 14-year old going to prison for life with other adults is a tad extreme. But this is coming from a Prime Minister that has sat back while Omar Khadr has been tortured in Guantanamo since he was 15.

[cbacon 0]

thread needs more Sania:

[The Thread Killer 0]

What's with the hostility, guy?

 

Nobody likes you...you didn't know that?

 

Anyways, taxpayers should have issues with initiatives that don't really address social problems. Prison is not an effective deterrent to crime, nor does it attempt to rehabilitate the criminal. In fact the psychological effects it entails are dangerous. So I see this as wasteful tax dollars being spent which could be better spent on addressing economic and social issues such as inequality and poverty. Gangs, for example, are an avenue kids in lower classes tend to join, so I think programs that address this issue are the way to go.

 

Your ideas are...not shared by everybody...to put it mildly. You are also not totally correct in your arguments.

 

Having worked in the Correctional System in several different capacities, I can tell you without fear of contradiction that the average citizen does not care if prison deters criminals and their concern over rehabilitation is usually lip service at best. They want criminals to be punished and they want to be protected from them. I can guarantee you one thing, and that is that nobody serving time in a correctional facility ever committed a crime outside of the facility while they were inside. So in that respect, it's 100% effective.

 

People can wax poetic about how prison is a school for criminals and how poor and underprivileged people are more prone to be in jail. That is certainly true in the United States, but not as much in the Canadian correctional system. Either way, it is unrealistic and a waste of time to think that the correctional system will ever change. Corrections will always be allotted enough tax dollars to house criminals and little else. Large amounts of money being spent on so-called "rehabilitation" programs in the correctional system will never happen, even if the NDP got into power. One of the few areas that the majority of people agree is on crime prevention. Any politician who publicly suggests increasing funding for prison reform is cutting their own throat. The public would rebel and the opposition would instantly suggest that the money be spent on more cops on the street.

 

Besides, Canada's correction system DOES offer a good variety of rehabilitation programs, especially at the minimum and medium security level in the Federal system, and the entire Provincial system has quite a few programs...at least in Ontario. (Having only worked in Ontario, I can't speak for other provinces.) If you are doing time in Ontario, you can get your High School Diploma, undergo free Alcohol and/or Drug Treatment, and in the Federal system you can learn a trade...all on the nickel of the taxpayer. The Probation system and organizations like the John Howard Society provide counseling for criminals after their release back into society, and assists with job placement. However, having said this, the onus is on the individual to avail themselves of these services...if they just choose to do their time, get out and re-offend, that is their choice.

 

I am sure you are familiar with the "nature/nurture" controversy if you have any sort of post secondary education. For every person who claims that criminals are "made" by society and "the system" there is one who will tell you that criminals are born with Anti-Social Personality Disorder, and cannot be rehabilitated no matter how many programs you offer them or how much money you throw at them. Look at the recidivism statistics on Sex Offenders...it will scare the hell out of you and make your skin crawl. Even the most generous stats suggest that over 90% of all criminals who commit sex crimes will re-offend. The "nature" argument suggests that deviant behavior is a psychological illness and that deviants need to be locked away to protect society.

 

Either argument cannot be proven conclusively either way, and to claim that it can is intellectual arrogance.

 

The idea of a 14-year old going to prison for life with other adults is a tad extreme. But this is coming from a Prime Minister that has sat back while Omar Khadr has been tortured in Guantanamo since he was 15.

 

That would be the same Omar Khadr who is on video planting landmines to kill soldiers? Awww...poor widdle terrorist.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

The idea of a 14-year old going to prison for life with other adults is a tad extreme. But this is coming from a Prime Minister that has sat back while Omar Khadr has been tortured in Guantanamo since he was 15.

You know, if you're going to bring up a case of Harper sitting around and leaving Canadians to their own devices when they run into foreign law systems, you could at least use Brenda Martin or one of the other handful of cases involving people not trained in terrorism.

[Red Baron 0]

Did anyone read a report on Peter Lougheed from Report on Business magazine? Guy made some interesting points if Harper gets a majority government and how our Oil, Water, Lumber is going to be sold off for pennies to the Americans and be bought back for a few dollars.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

The idea of a 14-year old going to prison for life with other adults is a tad extreme. But this is coming from a Prime Minister that has sat back while Omar Khadr has been tortured in Guantanamo since he was 15.

You know, if you're going to bring up a case of Harper sitting around and leaving Canadians to their own devices when they run into foreign law systems, you could at least use Brenda Martin or one of the other handful of cases involving people not trained in terrorism.

 

This is somewhat of an offhand remark but it's worth bringing up: My aunt works directly (and I means DI-RECT-LY) under our Federal Minster of Finance so she's privy to some serious shit and she informed me a while back that it's more or less general consensus amongst all of the Federal Gov't involved in the Martin case that while Brenda herself may not have been guilty of the crimes she was accused of she sure as shit was involved in the scam that lead to her getting locked up.

[ZGangsta 0]

Did anyone read a report on Peter Lougheed from Report on Business magazine? Guy made some interesting points if Harper gets a majority government and how our Oil, Water, Lumber is going to be sold off for pennies to the Americans and be bought back for a few dollars.

Yeah it's ironic how we bitch over and over again in Canada about exactly this (and a lack of secondary industry) and people are willing to elect a guy who thinks this is actually a fine way of running things.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Albertans always bitch about how they aren't getting enough from their natural resources. This is a 1-2-3 list of talking points. Number two is to then insist that legal language regarding the allocation of natural resources means all the oil sands money is theirs and shouldn't leave the province. Number three is is to bitch and moan about how once the Ontario manufacturing sector dies a little more, Alberta will be the only one funding every other province's equalization payments.

 

It's a combination of insisting that all the other money is exclusively theirs and making noises about how having all the money means they're supporting people that don't. It's that American right-wing idea that simply being the wealthiest isn't satisfying enough, you also must watch everyone around you fall into the poor house and only once they're properly envious have you made it.

 

These people usually have no answer for what the rest of the country should do except, "well maybe you should not have chosen to live in a province without oil!"

[... 0]

Albertans always bitch about how they aren't getting enough from their natural resources. This is a 1-2-3 list of talking points. Number two is to then insist that legal language regarding the allocation of natural resources means all the oil sands money is theirs and shouldn't leave the province. Number three is is to bitch and moan about how once the Ontario manufacturing sector dies a little more, Alberta will be the only one funding every other province's equalization payments.

 

It's a combination of insisting that all the other money is exclusively theirs and making noises about how having all the money means they're supporting people that don't. It's that American right-wing idea that simply being the wealthiest isn't satisfying enough, you also must watch everyone around you fall into the poor house and only once they're properly envious have you made it.

 

These people usually have no answer for what the rest of the country should do except, "well maybe you should not have chosen to live in a province without oil!"

Precisely. Any one group of people that sees fit to constantly re-elect Bozo the Klein and his ilk have no business telling anyone else how to run their lives.

[Vigo 0]

Albertans always bitch about how they aren't getting enough from their natural resources. This is a 1-2-3 list of talking points. Number two is to then insist that legal language regarding the allocation of natural resources means all the oil sands money is theirs and shouldn't leave the province. Number three is is to bitch and moan about how once the Ontario manufacturing sector dies a little more, Alberta will be the only one funding every other province's equalization payments.

 

It's a combination of insisting that all the other money is exclusively theirs and making noises about how having all the money means they're supporting people that don't. It's that American right-wing idea that simply being the wealthiest isn't satisfying enough, you also must watch everyone around you fall into the poor house and only once they're properly envious have you made it.

 

These people usually have no answer for what the rest of the country should do except, "well maybe you should not have chosen to live in a province without oil!"

Precisely. Any one group of people that sees fit to constantly re-elect Bozo the Klein and his ilk have no business telling anyone else how to run their lives.

 

And who would you suggest we elect? That twat Kevin Taft?

 

[... 0]

Kevin Taft never closed no hospitals.

 

So, twelve days to go, and it seems we're still treading water, at least as far as polls go. Some say Harper is in for a squeaker of a majority, but TEH ECONIMIC CRYSIS is all over the place and if someone is able to score a big jab on the issue, they may have the momentum in the home stretch.

 

It's been the most interesting campaign since the KILL THE TORIES election in 1993 (although for the wrong reasons), but the most I see happening is the Grits losing 30 seats: 15 to the NDP, 15 to the Conservatives. The Bloc stays the same. The aftermath is what I'm looking forward to, as I'm pretty sure Dion's lame duck term as leader is done and either Ignatieff or Rae hit the reset button. And I'm sure Harper will be in for some tough questions as to why an election was even needed in the first place. I'm not saying in-party revolt, but he might be doing some damage to the party base.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

I will fully and completely cop to watching the US VP debate over this simply because I was more interested in how Biden would handle himself but from what I saw/heard on the aftermath it was basically the Gangbang Harper Show with Layton coming out looking the best. Maybe somebody who actually watched the full debate can confirm/deny?

[Jobber of the Week 0]

As far as a "reading a brochure of platform ideas", I like the Libs but every time I see Dion and try to like him he fulfills the "quietly lodge a polite protest and then promptly sit down" stereotype that he has become saddled with.

 

I like that video of his leadership on climate change where he takes the headset off while accusing them of holding up an important issue, then very nicely asks them if they'd discuss their objections. I bet he's one of those guys who says "and another thing!" after losing an argument.