EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2008 Boxing probably has the richest library of any organized sporting event. When Thomas Edison developed motion pictures, some of his first films depicted boxing in a studio. Obviously a small, stationary area like a boxing ring made the event more ideal for rudimentary technology. With boxing establishing Marquis of Queensbury rules around the 1890s (gloved fighting and timed rounds), virtually all of its history exists on film. With that in mind, I thought it'd be fun to progress decade by decade over the last century plus and find the gems. Bob Fitzsimmons KO's Jim Corbett in the 14th round to win the heavyweight championship. The footage is shaky because it was pieced together from potato chip fragments of film. Another nitrate film bites the dust. Fitzsimmons lost to James J. Jefferies in his first defense. Here, Jim Jefferies defends the title against Bob Shawkey. Jefferies retired as champion, naming Marvin Hart the new champ after Jefferies refereed a Hart bout. That was dubious. After Hart dropped the belt to Tommy Burns, Burns managed to establish himself as a legitimate champ with a string of knockout victories over notable (re: white) challengers. Here's a fight between he and Jack O'Brien in 1906. Jack Johnson pursued Burns around the globe, finally landing a title bout in 1908. Johnson is the first black fighter to challenge for the heavyweight crown. Following that victory, Johnson defends against middleweight champion Stanley Ketchel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richard 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2008 So how did pro boxing develop into a (usually) legit sport, while pro wrestling became often-cartoonish "sports entertainment"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2008 So how did pro boxing develop into a (usually) legit sport, while pro wrestling became often-cartoonish "sports entertainment"? Boxing certainly had its share of fixed fights in the era, as did wrestling. I think the key is that it was possible for an honest boxing fight to be just as exciting as a fixed one, usually more so. A fixed wrestling encounter on the other hand was much more visually entertaining than a real one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 As the narrator mentions, that Johnson-Ketchel fight was supposed to be fixed. Ketchel should have just stuck with the script. Ketchel was later murdered during a bizarre robbery attempt at his house. Johnson said he took a dive in his title loss to Jess Willard. I think he was full of shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 1910s Going into the 'teens, Jack Johnson reigned as heavyweight champion. The audacity of a black fighter holding the crown caused outrage in sporting America, with writer Jack London calling for retired champion Jim Jefferies to come out and restore white pride. Jefferies, overweight and living on his alfalfa farm, eventually relented and trained to return to the ring. Jefferies and Johnson met on July 4, 1910. The fight sparked race riots throughout the country. Johnson vs. Jefferies It was two years before Johnson took another fight. Here he fights Fireman Jim Flynn. Johnson vs. Fireman Jim Flynn Johnson fought a bad fight against Battling Jim Johnson, defeated Frank Moran by decision and knocked out Jack Murray. At the age of 37, he took a fight against the latest Great White Hope, huge Jess Willard. This is a short clip of the 26th round KO. Of particular note is that this bout was co-promoted by Jess McMahon, grandfather of the WWE chairman. Johnson vs. Willard Did Johnson throw the fight? I doubt it. If Johnson had thrown the fight, why would he have waited 26 rounds to do it? Johnson did shield his eyes, but KO'ed fighters have done odd things. I recall one boxer throwing punches on his back. Mike Tyson attempted to put in his mouthpiece backwards while attempting to rise from the Douglas knockdown. Willard defended the title once, in a ten round no-decision bout against Frank Moran. Four years after winning the title, Willard stepped into the ring against Jack Dempsey. What followed was utter destruction. Willard vs. Dempsey While Johnson was one of the greatest fighters of all time, his style was not exciting and the crop of white fighters in his era was weak. The best fighters such as Sam Langford, Joe Jeannette and Sam McVey never challenged for the title. Willard barely fought as champion, leading to an entire decade devoid of good heavyweight bouts. Dempsey ushered in a new era of a fighting champion fighting exciting bouts in hugely marketed events. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Great thread, Al. I'll get more active in it when we hit the 60's and 70's. By far my favorite era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I've tended not to use too many descriptions of the clips, but check out Jim Flynn trying to launch his head at Jack Johnson. Not the finest moment in fight history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Dempsey beat the shit out of Big Jess. I believe Willard maintained that Dempsey had a loaded glove. Not only did Johnson go those 26 rounds, in was the afternoon in Cuba. He had a good run, though. And his importance went far beyond boxing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Niggardly King 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I'll be in out of this thread for Joe Louis, Marciano, Ali, Smokin' Joe, and Tyson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Sonny Liston is fun to watch too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coffin Surfer 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 As the narrator mentions, that Johnson-Ketchel fight was supposed to be fixed. Ketchel should have just stuck with the script. Ketchel was later murdered during a bizarre robbery attempt at his house. Johnson said he took a dive in his title loss to Jess Willard. I think he was full of shit. http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news/bearden2006.php I found a better article with actual links to the fight before but this will have to do for now. Basically found footage has most likely proved that Johnson/Ketchel was a legit fight all the way through. Eh, Johnson was never a reliable storyteller to begin with. Yeah, Willard was really just a bad style match up for Johnson who was already at the tail end of his career anyway. Willard's superior stamina, cautious style, and physical power in the clinch took Johnson out of his comfort zone and forced him into the aggressor role where he burned himself out and got caught late. Willard was really underrated when he was motivated, Dempsey would have ran over him no matter what though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Dempsey beat the shit out of Big Jess. I believe Willard maintained that Dempsey had a loaded glove. Manager Jack Kearns claimed it was plaster of paris, but a boxing magazine ran an experiment and found it wouldn't work. I think it was legit. Dempsey clocked Willard because he was able to hit him as soon as both knees left the canvas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I wish there was more of a market for boxing books, Johnson-Ketchel deserves one. I read that article but I'm not sure that stuff like, "Jack Johnson was never a beacon of truth. He was a rascal and a character who was hated by whites and admired by blacks during his lifetime," casts the author as a particularly bright person. Jess Willard was the Iron Sheik of boxing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coffin Surfer 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 Even based off this limited footage I would have my doubts. Ketchel goes wild on the inside in round 2 only to get caught with a right and knocked down. Ketchel would also go down again in 3 but that footage isn't here. You can also see Johnson landing flush jabs on a very bloody Ketchel who is now desperatley winging wild haymakers as early as 9, one of them eventually catches Jack in 12. Looks like the typical Johnson fight with him grappling and wearing down his opponent with his defense while picking his moments. Ketchel just got lucky late and Johnson came back up hard. The fact that Johnson also seemed to be lying about Willard and Ketchel can't speak up doesn't help his claim's credibility. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 You (and the rhetorically devoid fellow you linked to) could well be right. I agree about Johnson's bullshit about the Willard fight. It's oertainly one of about a million very interesting stories from boxing history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coffin Surfer 0 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 You (and the rhetorically devoid fellow you linked to) could well be right. I agree about Johnson's bullshit about the Willard fight. It's oertainly one of about a million very interesting stories from boxing history. Oh yeah, I agree that there should be more official research and books on all these contradictions from boxing's past. I personally wish there was just more readily available footage. Most of Johnson's stories were accepted as fact for so long because very few had access to any of the footage for decades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 6, 2009 Links used from dailymotion.com instead of embedded video when I found better footage. The 1920s kicked off with Jack Dempsey a newly established champion. Dempsey defended the title just once in 1920, a twelveth round KO of Bill Brennan. 1921 saw the biggest gate attraction at that time in boxing history. Dempsey battled Georges Carpentier, the World's Light Heavyweight champion. Adding to the attraction was Carpentier's status as a French war hero, whereas Dempsey was seen as a draft dodger. The fight drew 80,000 fans to Jersey City and drew boxing's first million dollar gate. Though game, Carpentier was overmatched and fell to a fourth round KO. http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...arpentier_sport It took Dempsey two years to take his next serious fight, a decision win over Tommy Gibbons that bankrupted the town of Shelby, Montanta. Two months following that debacle, Dempsey stepped into the ring with big, raw Luis Angel Firpo. The damnest four minutes of boxing followed. http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/searc...-14091923_sport While Dempsey drew huge purses, most of his attractive fights took place against smaller foes. Gibbons at his peak was a light heavyweight. Carpentier had won titles as far down as welterweight! Dempsey took three years off after the Firpo fight before he took the challenge of Gene Tunney in Philadelphia. The fight could not take place in New York City as the NY commission refused to sanction any title bout not involving Harry Wills. Wills had beaten Sam Langford and taken the measure of Luis Firpo in a no-decision bout. Tunney easily defeated Dempsey in a ten round decision to take the title. Meanwhile, Harry Wills lost to Jack Sharkey on a foul when behind on points. With Wills conveniently out of the picture, Dempsey KO'd Shawkey to earn a rematch at the title. You may have noticed in the Willard and Firpo fights that Dempsey would stand over his fallen opponents, hitting them as soon as they arose from a knockdown. This created the rule that a fighter should go to a neutral corner during a knockdown sequence. The "Long Count" followed. If anyone has a useable clip of these, feel free to post it. I was surprised not to find anything on Youtube. My own personal take on the controversy is that if Dempsey had Tunney on the canvas for a knockout, he should've damn well put him away anyway. Dempsey was outclassed the rest of the fight, he did not deserve to win. Tunney knocked out Tom Heeney in the eleventh round of his next fight, and announced his retirement. For the first time in history, boxing's heavyweight championship suffered a clean break in its lineage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2009 The thirties kicked off with a vacant heavyweight championship. The top two ranked heavyweights met on June 12, 1930 in Yankee Stadium. Schmeling won the championship on a fourth round foul, the only time the title has changed hands in such a manner. Schmeling defended the title just once in 1931, a 15th round KO of hard punching Young Stribling. Sharkey received his rematch in '32 and bested Schmeling via a 15 round decision. Unfortunately for Sharkey, he dropped the title in his first defense, a sixth round KO loss to Primo Carnera. Carnera was a mob controlled fighter; not terribly talented. Could Sharkey have thrown the fight? I have heard little beyond speculation. It is certainly not unheard that a huge boxer like Carnera would land a big shot. Carnera defeated Paulino Uzcudun and Tommy Loughran in decision victories. Uzcudun was well past his prime. Tommy Loughran was a career light heavyweight with a few heavyweight victories on his record. Though came, he was outweighed by nearly 100 lbs. Carnera encountered a slightly tougher challenge in Max Baer. Max Baer in three years had produced an impressive string of victories. He defeated five top ten fighters, including Johnny Risko, Ernie Schaaf, King Levinsky, Tully Griffiths and Max Schmeling. He had just knocked out Carnera and did it by knocking him down eleven times. He looked every bit the dominant champion. So of course he lost to Jim Braddock in his first defense. I assume most of you have seen Cinderella Man. The movie was substantially accurate with the exception that the actual fight was dull. Luckily for the heavyweight division a truly great fighter emerged. Joe Louis had knocked out Sharkey, Carnera and Baer. Despite a KO loss to Max Schmeling, Louis earned a shot at the heavyweight title. Louis followed up his title win with defenses against Tommy Farr, Nathan Mann and Harry Thomas. Brits take pride that Tommy Farr simply lasted the fifteen rounds. Take your victories wherever you can find them. Next Louis met the only man to defeat him, Max Schmeling. Schmeling had KO'd Louis in the twelvth run of their previous encounter. The second fight in Yankee Stadium is one of the most iconic fights in boxing history. Louis knocked out John Henry Lewis in his next fight. Lewis was a Hall of Fame light heavyweight, collecting one big payday before retirement. Louis followed his first round KO streak with a victory over Jack Roper. Louis then stepped in against Tony "Two Ton" Galento. Louis ended the decade with a win against Bob Pastor. Already Louis had defended the heavyweight championship eight times. He was not even halfway done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 As the 1940s began, Joe Louis' "Bum of the Month Club" hit full throttle. Four title defenses in 1940, followed by seven defenses in 1941. Louis' first fight ended in a controversial split decision against Arturo Godoy. Louis KO'd Godoy in a rematch four months later. Louis KO'd Johnny Paychek and Al McCoy. 1941 saw Louis kick off the year with KO's of Red Burman, Gus Dorazio, Abe Simon and Tony Musto. Louis then defeated Buddy Baer by DQ in a controversial bout. Baer's manager claimed that Louis hit Baer after the bell. Louis-Baer I One month later, Louis made his most famous defense against light heavyweight champ Billy Conn. Conn led on two cards coming into the 13th round, before Louis caught up with him. Louis knocked out Lou Nova in his next bout. In 1942, Louis KO'd Buddy Baer in the first round to erase any doubts, and KO'd Abe Simon again. With the world at war, Louis and the title went on hiatus. Louis fought a quasi-exhibition in 1944. He retured to action in June 1946, KO'ing Billy Conn in a much easier bout. Louis KO'd Tami Mauriello in August. Louis next fought a year later, defeating Jersey Joe Walcott by split decision. Louis was knocked down twice, and thought he lost the fight. Louis came back to KO Walcott in a rematch. In March of 1949, Louis announced his retirement. Louis-Walcott I Louis-Walcott II Following Louis' retirement, Walcott met Ezzard Charles for the vacant crown. Charles won via a unanimous decision. While Charles did not enjoy unanimous recognition, he was certainly the best fighter of the time. Charles was a devestating light heavyweight puncher. While his final record looks terrible, he was 59-5-1 heading into the Walcott bout. Walcott KO'd Gus Lesnevich and Pat Valentino to finish the decade. While few legitimate challengers existed, Joe Louis would step out of retirement in 1950 and attempt to reclaim his crown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Things got ugly between Tunney's retirement and the rise of Joe Louis. It was bad then as it is now. Joe Louis was one of ther best ever and, despite the 'Bum of the Month' club, fought and defeated several good opponents. Too bad he got a bit of a bad deal in the end. The demolition of Schmelling never gets old. He got a bad deal, too, as he was not a Nazi. It's a touch racket, kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Things got ugly between Tunney's retirement and the rise of Joe Louis. It was bad then as it is now. Joe Louis was one of ther best ever and, despite the 'Bum of the Month' club, fought and defeated several good opponents. Too bad he got a bit of a bad deal in the end. The demolition of Schmelling never gets old. He got a bad deal, too, as he was not a Nazi. It's a touch racket, kid. It wasn't AS bad, because they at least could agree on who should fight for the title. They can't even create a title fight today. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 Well, that can be said for all the weight divisions. Even when a weight class' championships get unified it is only for brief periods. But it doesn't change the fact that the guys scrapping over the title then were some of the worst ever (much like today). Imagine either Klitschko in a fight with Primo Carnera. In my opinion, starting with Louis' lengthy reign, heavyweight boxing stays gold like Ponyboy until our own present time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 8, 2009 I would argue that from Ali losing to Shavers to Tyson vs. Berbick was a time which wasn't very good. Not shitty like now, but not very good. Anyway, we'll get to that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 8, 2009 When that time comes, I will have to argue with you. I am a big Larry Holmes fan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 Ali beat Shavers. Do you mean Leon Spinks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 9, 2009 Yeah, I did. I was checking the boxrec page to make sure, but too many s's confused me for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 9, 2009 There's a couple of good fights from 1978-85. We've got Holmes-Norton, Holmes-Cooney, Weaver-Tate. And of course there's the Holmes/Cobb fight to cover. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 1950 kicked off with Ezzard Charles laying claim to the heavweight championship. Charles defeated Freddie Beshore by 14th round TKO in his first fight of 1950. One month later, Joe Louis came out of retirement to challenge Charles, the undisputed crown on the line. With Louis defeated, Charles set about defending against a relatively thin crop of challengers. Charles defeated Nick Barone and Lee Oma by KO. Charles then fought Jersey Joe Walcott for a second time and won via unanimous decision. Charles then defeated light heavyweight champ Joey Maxim by decision. With few challengers available, Charles again fought Walcott for the title. It was Jersey Joe's fifth challenge. Walcott defeated Charles via unanimous decision to retain his title in a rematch. Walcott next defended against a boxer whom many considered a great puncher, but not tremendously skilled. Walcott dominated Rocky Marciano for twelve rounds. Trailing on all three scorecards, Marciano unleashed the greatest punch in boxing history. Marciano KO'd Wolcott in the first round of a rematch. Walcott retired after the fight. Next up, Marciano fought Roland LaStarza, who gave Marciano a challenge in 1950, losing via split decision. Unable to solve LaStarza's guard, Marciano punched through it; punching LaStarza's arms until LaStarza could not lift them, and then knocking him through the ropes. A fifteen round war with Ezzard Charles followed, with Marciano winning via unanimous decision. Still, the exciting fight prompted a rematch. Charles split Marciano's nose wide open. Marciano by some accounts had one more round left before it would be stopped. The cut The next year Marciano TKO'd Don Cockell of Britain. As a running theme, Britains were proud that Cockell put up a game fight. Later that year, Marciano fought the legendary Archie Moore, who moved up from light heavyweight. Moore had won the light heavyweight championship from Joey Maxim in 1952. The description of Moore going down like a sinking warship seems apropros. Marciano retired following the fight. Archie Moore received another shot at the vacant title, this time facing 30-1 Floyd Patterson, another fighter who came up from the light heavyweight ranks. Patterson ran up a streak of KO victories. Tommy Jackson, Pete Rademacher, Roy Harris and Brian London. Rademacher was the 1956 Olympic Gold medalist, making his professional debut. On June 26, 1959, Patterson met another Olympian, Ingemar Johansson. Johansson had been disqualified in the olympic final for backpeddling from opponent Ed Sanders. His record as a professional stood at 21-0, and he had just KO'd contender Eddie Machen in the first round. In their fight, Johansson clocked Patterson with a knockdown punch in the third round. Out on his feet, Patterson suffered six more knockdowns before the fight was finally stopped. I am unable to find a clip of the fight. Needless to say though, the fight should not have continued as long as it did. That left Ingemar Johansson the heavyweight champion as the decade closed. Floyd Patterson would yet receive a rematch. Meanwhile, a contender named Sonny Liston was in the midst of a string of knockout victories. Another young boxer named Cassius Clay was gearing up for the 1960 Olympic games in Rome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snuffbox 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 Ezzard Charles is very underrated by history. He wasn't the best heavyweight champion ever but the rest of his career make him a legend. Also, my great-uncle claimed to say he worked/trained at the same Chicago gym as Charles back in the day. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EVIL~! alkeiper 0 Report post Posted January 10, 2009 Ezzard Charles is very underrated by history. He wasn't the best heavyweight champion ever but the rest of his career make him a legend. Also, my great-uncle claimed to say he worked/trained at the same Chicago gym as Charles back in the day. Absolutely. Charles has wins over six Hall of Famers, including Charley Burley, Joey Maxim, Jimmy Bivins, Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott and Joe Louis. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites