My new way of eating.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

also, 2 pounds per week is generally an attainable goal for weight loss. i'd say that depending on height, even with muscle mass, a good goal is to have a healthy BMI. it's a bad formula for hardcore athletes (people with 3% body fat who have a ton of muscle can be seen as overweight, obviously), but for general people -- even casual/competitive, albeit not elite athletes -- it's a good general way to judge yourself. long term, there's no reason why you couldn't be 190-200 pounds, but you've just got to stick with it.

[Damaramu 0]

See I just hear conflicting reports. People say "Go low on carbs, the only carbs you should get should be from meat, fruit or veggies" and then I hear people say to only eat natural food. I also hear people say to lay off bread (even whole wheat) because it's nutritonally dead and does nothing but make you fat. This is really the first time in my life I've heard people say to only eat fruit, meat and veggies and cut out all processed foods including grains. This is really the first time I've come across this methodology.

 

When you say moderation, do you mean like once a week? Twice a week?

 

Also, cutting this stuff is really the only time I've seen real positive changes in my weight loss. Before I really can't lose weight. I just feel I'm maintaining at the gym. By only eating meat, fruit and veggies I've pretty much been forced to cut the junk food out and I mean I'm losing weight pretty rapidly and my wife is too.

 

I dunno, there's so many different philiosophies out there and like a lot of them work, but I assume it's because different people have different bodies and different things work. I'm still trying to figure out what works for me.

 

I know one thing though. I don't like veggies. If I don't make them one of only 3 things I can eat and force myself to eat them then I will never eat them.

 

And yeah, I do CF but only twice a week.

[Damaramu 0]

I went to sparkpeople. It's a little confusing at first.

 

I just figured that if I ate in moderation (IE not a gut-busting meal) and didn't have any processed sugar, little to no processed foods and lots of meat and veggies that having grains should be ok if I follow those other tenets for every meal.

 

Then you throw in running my ASS off at the gym AFTER I lift heavy to get the muscles burning and the fat burning then I figure I should be able to lose 30 pounds in the next 6 months or so.

 

And would you recommend eating a sandwich with whole wheat bread for lunch? Or is that too many carbs and too much empty processed food?

[dubq 0]

Basically they're trying to say that the Paleo diet is the ONLY way to go and that I can never go off of it. That my diet from now till the day I die has to consist of fruit, vegetables, meat and nuts. And if I ever add grains or bread or anything back in, well then by god I'll gain 50 pounds and be back where I started.

 

 

Don't listen to these fuckwits. I mean, it's good to think of how you're eating as a lifestyle change.. ie a permanent eating habit, not a diet in the popular sense of the word. But not allowing cheats here and there is ridiculous and is just counter productive to human nature, IMO.

[dubq 0]

And would you recommend eating a sandwich with whole wheat bread for lunch? Or is that too many carbs and too much empty processed food?

 

I eat as clean as I can, but I still include complex carbs as required. Doesn't necessarily have to be breads, but if it's what's available and what's convenient, then I think it's fine. Two normal sizes of wholegrain sandwich bread should only be about 120 calories, to begin with. If it's more than that then they're either too large or I'd question their ingredients.

 

You should check out Josh Hillis' blog. He's got a lot of good info on there about this kind of thing. http://joshsgarage.typepad.com/

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

to be honest, there's NOTHING wrong with breads or whole wheat pasta or whatever. the only problem with it is if you eat more than a standard serving size (i.e. what i used to do, which was empty the package) or eat ONLY carbs. carbs should be eaten every day, just like proteins and yes, even fats. you just have to balance and not eat too much. a lot of dieting is common sense, it's like, hmmmmm should i eat myself a turkey ham and cheese sandwich for lunch -- following standard serving sizes, that could be around 300-400 calories, which is a reasonable amount for lunch -- or should i bring a piece of pizza? stuff like that. yeah, you can cheat every once in a while, no doubt. just account for it and realize you've just got to work that much harder the next day.

 

also, on the fruits and veggies thing, keep in mind that most fruits and veggies have VERY little caloric content. that's a good thing, yes, but it can also be a really bad thing in terms of if you're only eating them, you're not going to hit your calorie goals. i actually turned off the SP meal plan because i didn't need it, but i used their nutrition section and added my long term goal, how many pounds i wanted to lose a week, and how active i was (which turned out to be roughly burning 3500-4500 calories a week), and they spat out a number for a calorie range i should be hitting every day, in addition to approximately how many grams of fats, carbs, etc. i needed. you'd be surprised just how much of those things you can have, but you'd also be surprised how quickly your numbers climb when you don't follow serving sizes.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah, it's just that I was used to eating SO much before. That was my problem. Instead of eating a serving size I'd unload with 4 serving sizes in one meal. I get what you're saying.

 

I wonder how many calories the average person burns living their daily life?

 

According to spark people I should be consuming 2200 calories a day. Would I need to consume less to lose weight?

[Damaramu 0]

Well you know all this healthy eating would be great if I could work out! I worked out last Sunday. Then didn't work out again until Thursday because of being sick. Then Thursday I ran a mile and did some lunges and push-ups and that just made me feel sicker. Now today I'm still feeling sick to my stomach and I'm about to do my taxes!

I've lost 7 pounds in a week, imagine how much I could've lost if I was working out everyday?

[Guest Vitamin X]

Dama, I bet you more than anything you're getting more out of just doing the exercise and eating better portioned sizes than you are following some weird and/or complex diet plan.

 

Or if you want to, you could just go all hardcore and eat only rice and veggies like I have been doing for the past couple weeks or so. I don't have a scale, but I haven't had much- pretty much any- time to work out outside of doing calisthenics and stretching at home and I can certainly tell the difference.

 

Oh also, fighting off late night hunger pangs with either a bunch of water and/or a cup of yogurt. That's actually been my biggest problem with eating well, eating at the right times.

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah, having a job that makes me go to bed at 10 every night is pretty good about keeping me in check. However, I just have to fight off mid-day hunger.

 

I decided I want to eat fucking sandwiches for lunch. So I got some sugar-free whole wheat bread. I was unaware bread had high fructose corn syrup in it.

 

I still feel bad that I've basically only worked out twice this week, but such is the case when you're sick as a dog.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Yeah staying away from high fructose corn syrup is an excellent choice. Whole wheat bread is the ish. I try to go with either that or fresh baked loaves which I gobble up over a couple days (usually the weekend).

 

And for some reason "I decided I want to eat fucking sandwiches for lunch." made me laugh.

[Damaramu 0]

It's also hard for me to do a lot of the CF workouts. Be it physically or equipment wise. I think I may go back to my normal routine on days when I can't do the CF workout. My normal routine is:

 

Bench Press 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2 (getting heavier as I go)

Military Press 3x10

Bent-Over Row 3x10

Lat Pull-down 3x10

Squat 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2

Hamstring Curls 3x10

 

It's kind of basic, but I get some decent lifts for power and a few compounds ones that hit different body parts.

[Damaramu 0]

Ok Tyler, I didn't realize how hard it was to keep your calories in check until you started reading labels.

 

I bought some sugar-free bread and made a sandwich for lunch. I read labels and created a 390 calorie sandwich. I realized that if you don't keep control of things then the calorie count can get WAY out of hand.

 

Luckily the only other things I eat are fruit and veggies that have little to no calories. So I doubt they'll get out of hand. That's why I was like "Ok so my sandwich is 390 calories and my oatmeal is going to be 140. That's 430 calories! How much will I have with dinner?" Then I realized that my dinner is going to be a porkchop and a ton of steamed broccoli. I may be under 1,000 calories. WTF? I have some smoked almonds. Those can add on some calories. But even then, I'm still struggling to even make it to 1,500 calories!

 

 

I guess it's all the better because I had a bad weekend. I had some cheetos and pizza on Saturday because of the UFC and then had some chips at a Super Bowl party. So I got a lot of calories this weekend. So I'm going to have to kill myself in the gym and definitely watch what I eat all week. I do feel like I look a bit thinner though!

 

 

And how overrated is the starvation effect? I've heard people say that if you don't eat in a few hours your body starts storing calories and fat to prepare itself and thus you don't lose weight. I've also heard that if you eat like under 2,000 calories a day your body starts doing that. And then I've also heard people say it takes a long time of continually starving and undernourishing yourself to actually make the starvation effect take hold.

So, what is it? How long does it actually take of not eating enough calories before you stay fat? lol

 

 

And I know we discussed this a bit earlier, about whether you can build muscle and lose weight at the same time. If I go in and have a heavy lift then go for a 30-45 minute run won't I be losing fat but putting on muscle? Isn't this the best thing to do? Just making sure I'm not going to retain fat if I go about this method. I doubt I would, because I'd probably be burning even more calories with the lifts. I just want to do whatever is the best and quickest way to get the fat off my midsection. It's really not about weight, it's about not being fat and having some muscle and definition. For a while there I was just going to the gym and just lifting. Yeah that wasn't a good idea. I got stronger, and my arms did get bigger (albeit without a ton of definition), but my waistline also expanded because I wasn't burning enough calories with just the lifts.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

to be honest, the biggest thing about the starvation effect is that it makes it tougher to lose, rather than easier to gain. i dunno if that makes sense. i never had trouble with gaining weight if i dropped under 1500 calories in a day, but i guess if i did it repeatedly day after day, it might make me hit a plateau.

 

and yeah, basically you've got it right. you're gonna lose weight because you're cutting calories and burning more cals, but you'd be putting on muscle because you're lifting harder and gaining muscle naturally.

 

you seem like you've got the handle on it, the general theory is pretty sound. just don't do what i did and stop lifting because you became enamored with the weight loss, because you WILL lose muscle if you do that. also, you've got to make sure you're at least getting enough food that you're able to recover from your weightlifting if you're feeling way too sore after your workouts. for that sort of thing, i'd recommend increasing protein; i drink those awful whey shakes and eat protein bars.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Bananas are good for the potassium as well.

 

That, and peanut butter anything are excellent recovery snacks. I used to have them all the time after a long run. Now I have no running shoes, but just some okay-ish basketball shoes that start getting uncomfortable after a couple miles of running, and forget about taking them outside so most of the cardio I get is either from that, biking, or rowing which I'll do for like half an hour (and I really like doing anything that increases upper body muscle endurance and resistance WHILE getting that pesky cardio in too).

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

just stay away from the salmonella ftw

[Damaramu 0]

Well how long of starving myself do I have to go before the "starvation effect" sets in?

 

Yeah, I honestly don't know how much I'm going to be into weight loss as much as watching my waistline shrink. I wear size 42 pants. If I was wearing like size 36 and still weighed 270, I'd probably be ok with that! See I don't even know what a good waist size is because it's been so long since I've been thin! (5th or 6th grade!)

 

But, I don't want to become a skinny rail. That's why I will be lifting, so I can gain muscle while losing the fat. So I don't think I'll get enamored with losing the pounds, just the inches.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

yeah dude, i was a 38 bordering on 40, and now i'm a 28. it's sick to watch.

 

as for the starvation mode, it's not a matter of a few hours imo. i never went into starvation mode after not eating for like, four hours or anything; that's kind of absurd. for me, my metabolism went out of control when i started running consistently and i only hit starvation mode when i had several days of 1000-1200 cals (sick days or just overdoing the diet).

[EricMM 0]

Dama, you seem to overanalyze these things.

 

I can remember several "exercise/diet" threads you've done over the years.

 

The only time in my life when I lost signifigant amounts of weight was when I switched from regular soda to diet and biked four miles every day as a commute.

 

Exercise more, eat less excess calories.

 

What I CERTAINLY didn't do was starve myself. You know that when you're only taking in a few calories your body freaks out and slows your metabolism down.

 

An apple is not a sufficent breakfast. That's supposed to be, like, the biggest meal of the day.

 

Also if you're dieting, why eat bacon or sausage? Might as well eat soy sausage or soy bacon, they taste the same anyways, and they're not 20% or more fat.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

turkey bacon is where it's at

[dubq 0]

I wonder how many calories the average person burns living their daily life?

 

There's no set number for that, but that idea based off of your Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR).

 

You can calculate it here: http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

 

Mine's just under 2000.

[dubq 0]

Also if you're dieting, why eat bacon or sausage? Might as well eat soy sausage or soy bacon, they taste the same anyways, and they're not 20% or more fat.

 

Stay away from North American soy products if you're trying to lose weight.

 

 

Instead...

 

turkey bacon is where it's at

 

 

^^^ what he said.

[Guest Vitamin X]

Also if you're dieting, why eat bacon or sausage? Might as well eat soy sausage or soy bacon, they taste the same anyways, and they're not 20% or more fat.

 

I think the argument behind that is this: First of all, soy sausage and soy bacon don't provide you with nearly enough nutrients or calories to get you through the day- the reason why breakfast is the most important meal of the day is because it's your morning fill-up for the rest of the day. As you go through your day, you'll burn calories, so that's why it's usually a good idea to follow up a good workout done first thing in the morning with a shower and good breakfast. The soy stuff works (at least, for some people- I grew way sick of that shit especially after figuring out how bad soy is for you when you have too much of it) in small batches, but bacon, sausage- guy has to enjoy a good breakfast. Eggs are probably worse for you than those are, anyways, at least the yolk is.

 

Lately what I've been doing is oatmeal with a bit of brown sugar and 1 teaspoon of butter, usually added at the end since I do slow cooker oatmeal most of the time now, and then I either add fruits to that, or just sweeten it up a bit more and have like a fruit salad or something on the side, OJ to drink. I could probably eat a bit more for breakfast, but I just serve myself plenty of oatmeal and I'm good to go- lots of fiber, carbs, and calories to get you through the day. I try to save the big protein stuff for later that day or for dinner.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

yeah, i usually eat a pretty decent sized breakfast. this morning i had a bowl of cereal with skim milk and a meal replacement protein bar (310 cals for the bar, about 200 for the cereal/milk)

[dubq 0]

Lately what I've been doing is oatmeal with a bit of brown sugar and 1 teaspoon of butter, usually added at the end since I do slow cooker oatmeal most of the time now, and then I either add fruits to that, or just sweeten it up a bit more and have like a fruit salad or something on the side, OJ to drink. I could probably eat a bit more for breakfast, but I just serve myself plenty of oatmeal and I'm good to go- lots of fiber, carbs, and calories to get you through the day. I try to save the big protein stuff for later that day or for dinner.

 

Fuck yeah. Best breakfast, ever. IMO. I seriously hated oatmeal about 2 years ago and now I don't know what I'd do without it.

[Damaramu 0]

Well Eric I've made a lot of these threads about working out, but I've always left the most important thing out: eating.

 

I seriously my whole life have tried to eat what I want and workout and think that I'm going to lose weight. It's only now that I started changing my diet for the better.

 

When all is said and done today I will have eaten around 1,800 calories. I'm a big guy, I need around 2,200. But, eating 1,800 should produce enough of a deficit for me to get some serious weight loss done and it won't be too low to be in danger of "starving" or whatever.

 

I have been eating oatmeal for breakfast. It's good and fills me up. For lunch I had a sandwich with a serving size of everything, some almonds and a lot of brocolli and carrots. And I had an apple as a snack. I'd never have eaten like this before. Before I would have eaten sugary cereal for breakfast, a fried tornado from the gas station for a snack and then Taco Bueno for lunch. So yeah, yay me.

 

Now the calorie deficit you're trying to create to lose weight. Is it each day or is it over the entire week? You have to burn a lot of calories to burn a pound of fat don't you?

 

Also according to that calculator I burn about 2250 doing my daily activities. I plan on lifting heavy and then running at least 3 miles this evening. So I should be doing some serious burning. Not only will I burn while working out, but the lifting should keep my body burning that shit off later too.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

that's awesome that you finally made that connection. the biggest thing for you to do now is to find out how to do something that's sustainable for the rest of your life, not just a "diet"

[Damaramu 0]

These two articles are what's bugging me as far as my weight loss goes:

 

http://www.theiflife.com/2008/08/19/the-bi...es-people-make/

 

And:

 

http://www.theiflife.com/2008/02/25/fat-lo...ter-the-basics/

 

They kind of just seem to contradict what I know. Whereas I've always thought of weight loss like Tyler said earlier. "It's not as simple as calories in and calories out, but it's not much more complicated than that." Or something to that effect.

 

Well it just seems like these articles are saying it has nothing to do with calories in or calories out. I feel like after reading these he's telling me that I can run all I want, but all I'll do is burn off muscle and if I eat a cheeseburger then all is lost because it's all about nutrition and almost has nothing to do with working out. Very confusing mixed signals.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

it does have to do with nutrition, but it also has to do with exercise. i don't put too much faith in those types of articles, to be honest. and, even if they were right, look at it this way: if you cut all kinds of weight and lose some muscle, you can always build your muscle back up. in terms of functionality, the health advantages of being skinny far outweigh the utility of being able to, say, bench press 315.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

...a fried tornado...

 

Que?