TNA Impact - February 5, 2009

[Scroby 0]

Glad others are baffled as to this Machine Guns part of the Frontline angle. Why in the hell should Sabin and Shelley care about any of these guys? Aren't they trying to contend with them for the tag titles and aren't the Frontline guys coming after Shelley's X title? It's moronic to actively help your competition. Pro wrestling is an individual sport (or maybe 2 men in a tag team). It's not this goofy Ryder Cup style deal where guys all band together for some vague common purpose.

 

I fail to see how the MCMG are heels in all of this. They don't want to be bothered with this ragtag group called the Frontline? Fine. Foley and Co. should just leave them alone instead of threatening them with fines or being fired.

The MCMG "sided" with the Frontline a long time ago. Frontline is described as a family who is able to compete against each other but still have respect for one another. That's the reason why we saw Frontline members wrestle each other when the team was first formed. As far as I know, the MCMG has never left the Frontline, so there's your reason on why Tenay and West were pretty mad about the MCMG not helping their teammates.

 

Speaking of Shelley, he needs to learn how to fucking sell during a match. He gets nutted on the turnbuckle and he just puts his legs over the top rope and then just stands up, not selling the nut shot. He's a horrible seller.

 

I laughed at how Rudy Charles just looked sad and shook his head instead of being in panic when it came to Beer Money smashing Creed's elbow with a chair. He needs to show emotion and be more assertive.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Right. The problem isn't that the Guns don't side with the Frontline. The Frontline aren't calling out LAX for not backing them. LAX aren't part of the Frontline, the Guns are. If you go back to the start of the stable Joe and AJ challenged the roster to step forward and the Guns mocked them. The Guns then joined seemingly to avoid getting repercussions for their mocking. But for the entire run the Guns have mocked their allies and failed to aid them. Meanwhile they've remained part of the group, seemingly to maintain the protection both from the Mafia and from the Frontline themselves, as the Guns have continued to antagonize Foley, Creed, and Lethal amongst others.

 

So Lethal and Creed are just calling them out. The Guns didn't get drafted into the Frontline. They volunteered. They've just failed to live up to the roles they volunteered for.

[The Truthiness 0]

So did BMI side with MEM or something? Because if not, Tenay/West sound even dumber.

[LuckyLopez 0]

No, Beer Money has never allied with the Mafia. But why does that make Tenay sound dumber? The Guns and Lethal/Creed are allies. The Guns stood there and watched their allies be beat down and injured. Does it matter who did it? Aren't allies supposed to protect each other?

 

That's the point. The Guns are opportunistic creeps who are SUPPOSED to be Frontline members because they VOLUNTEERED to be.

 

EDIT: Or Tenay also suggested that the Guns should offer to postpone the match rather than wrestle a handicap match with Lethal due to the Beer Money attack. Which again, seems pretty reasonable if the Guns are supposed to be allies to Creed/Lethal. Taking advantage of an injury to beat one of their allies down in a handicap match seems kind of... heelish?

[The Truthiness 0]

SO basically the Frontline is just as bad as the Mafia?

 

If the Frontline was such a "family", where were they when Petey and ODB was destroyed last week?

 

The thing is BMI did something bad to Lethal/Creed, however MCMG got all the blame for it. Yet, Lethal/Creed basically took advantage of BMI, when Roode leg was injured, and they won the tag titles by beating one guy, which is a heel move, yet nobody said anything. So I guess, BMI is fair game until they choose a side or something.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Creed, Lethal, and Young all ran out to aid Petey last week. ODB is a fair question although for the life of me I have no idea why she's in the Frontline. She's clearly separate from the entire Frontline/Mafia story so why TNA included her to create that potential hole I have no idea.

 

I do agree that Creed and Lethal using the ForF shot the way they did was a heelish move. But then again its kind of a double edged sword. Punk did the same thing, even taking it further by facing and pinning an opponent who was already down. I thought he too made a very heel move that sat poorly with his character but the fans at large took it fine. Meanwhile many people called Hernandez stupid for NOT using his shot to take advantage of his opponent in an opportunistic and heel way. So it seems kind of tough. Over the in WWE column a number of people flat out said that anyone who didn't use the MitB shot like Edge and Punk did is an idiot. So a face is basically stuck with these shots either looking like a heel in the eyes of some fans or looking like an idiot in the eyes of some fans.

 

But I do agree that Lethal/Creed using it as they did was pretty underhanded and I wasn't a fan of it at all. Even less so than I was with Punk.

 

But at the same time, its not the same situation. Beer Money aren't Lethal and Creed's allies. I don't get why this is a hard thing to grasp. Lethal, Creed, and the Guns ARE allies. They ARE Frontline. They are supposed to aid each other and work together, because that's what they agreed to do. So the Guns betrayed that agreement and alliance when they abandoned or took advantage of Creed and Lethal. Heelish though it may be, Lethal and Creed's actions against Beer Money weren't actions against the Frontline. So it may have been a "bad" or "heel" act, but it was completely different story lacking the basic element of this one. An agreed upon alliance which one side failed to live up to. Creed and Lethal never shook Beer Money's hands and said "We're with you."

 

EDIT: But again, I don't want to gloss over your fair points. Because I agree that faces using the MitB/ForF shots in an opportunistic fashion is dirty pool and it made Lethal and Creed look bad in the context of this Frontline story (which may well be why it sat worse with me than Punk since in his case while his action was cheap and heelish at least the context was him doing it to the man who had done it twice and who was there taunting people that the brand would have no title).

 

And the lack of ODB support is equally stupid. Of course personally I just like to ignore ODB and I'm probably willing to look over it on the premise that the Frontline want as little to do with her as I do. But still doesn't make her usage in this story make any more sense.

[Scroby 0]

SO basically the Frontline is just as bad as the Mafia?

 

If the Frontline was such a "family", where were they when Petey and ODB was destroyed last week?

 

The thing is BMI did something bad to Lethal/Creed, however MCMG got all the blame for it. Yet, Lethal/Creed basically took advantage of BMI, when Roode leg was injured, and they won the tag titles by beating one guy, which is a heel move, yet nobody said anything. So I guess, BMI is fair game until they choose a side or something.

Didn't the Frontline come out when Petey was in the recline but the MCMG didn't come out and help? Which was the reason why Lethal and Creed were wrestling the MCMG in the first place.

 

Wrestling 101:

 

Heels = bad

Faces = Good

 

So when Lethal and Creed, who are faces, took advantage of Beer Money Inc, who are the heels, and cashed in their briefcase, the commentators put the faces over as being smart and taking advantage of the situation.

 

The situation with the MCMG is that while their faces, they do questionable heel tactics like not helping out when follow Frontline members are being attacked, or being selfish and worrying more about themselves. Which is what Tenay and West are trying to make the MCMG more heelish.

 

The problem lies with the MCMG's though. They still cater to the crowd and do moves the pop the crowd, overall they are faces who are suppose to be heels but aren't trying to get themselves over as heels. They really don't do any heel tactics or anything during the match, just before or after a match happens. This is a reason why I really don't like the MCMG.

[The Truthiness 0]

I seriously find it amusing that people are trying to make sense of this, and actually defending. The fact is, MCMG (who have pretty much done veerything, but say, "Hey you Fontline guys are morons) is being prtrayed as doing something wrong, because they din't help ateam who did something wrong, a few weeks ago. Shit, MCMG tried to help Lethal win the World title a couple of months ago, but he refused, however all of a sudden, MCMG doesn't help them when they are getting fucked up, so that make them worse then Lethal/Creed.

 

I mean Tenay/West, put over Sting as some kind of remarkable guy, because Kurt didn't want his help. It seems too me Kurt wanted to prove a point that he didn't need Sting. When you think about it though, Sting kind of looked like a goof.

 

I don't want to even get in to how Rhyno, (the guy who created "The Frontline") looked.

[LuckyLopez 0]

I find it hard to believe that the story is really half as difficult to understand as you're making it out to be.

 

They are allies.

The Guns failed to help Creed and Lethal as they were beat down by the Mafia.

The Guns watched Creed and Lethal get beat down by Beer Money.

The Guns took advantage of Creed's injury (that they watched happen) by wrestling Lethal in a handicap match.

But none of this is any way heelish because Creed and Lethal did something arguably heelish to a 3rd party a month ago? At most that makes the story 2 tweeners acting heelish on 2 tweeners they are supposed to be allied with.

 

TNA gives more than its share of things for people to criticize. The Dudleys in the main event. The telegraphed Sting/Angle stuff. The poor booking of the Frontline and faces in general. LAX's seemingly bimonthly appearances when they seemed poised to be big players in the stories. The Governor. The wrestling referee. Tenay and West, of course. Mick Foley's sudden random disappearances and Cornette's fluctuating power. Why folks love to go crazy making MORE things to criticize I'll never understand. But then every debate I've seen you engage in in this forum over the last few weeks has inevitably led to you insulting anyone who disagrees with you by letting us know how amusing you find that anyone actually see TNA in a different light as you.

[cabbageboy 0]

Lucky, the thing is this. All of the stuff you mention are commonly felt by most fans, so it's not worth bothering about. But this MCMG angle is baffling even though I know what they are doing and what they're going for. It's laughable to say that Sabin/Shelley are any sort of real allies to the Frontline guys since they never wanted to be in the group at all and only joined because Foley made various threats about firing them. And once again, it's impossible to buy a storyline like this since the other Frontline members will want a shot at Shelley or the MCMG as a team.

[LuckyLopez 0]

Respectfully, that's just not true at all, cabbageboy. The Guns joined the Frontline before Foley was involved. They ran a story on the very first episode that the Frontline/Originals formed. Joe and AJ made a challenge to the lockerroom. Young, Creed, Lethal, Petey, and ODB stepped forward. The Guns then came out to mock Joe and AJ. By the end of the episode the Guns apologized to Joe and AJ and said they were in, the clear implication being that they simply didn't want to be stuck with the Mafia as well as Joe and AJ as enemies. Even though it was the Guns themselves who made them enemies at the start of the show. When Foley started taking up with the Frontline the Guns were already there with them, and THAT'S how the Guns/Foley thing started because they were constantly disrespecting him.

 

IF the Guns were only in the Frontline because Foley threatened to fire them if they weren't? Yeah, that would be a horrible story. But that's never happened. Foley threatened the Guns when he thought they might pull a "finger of doom" in the X title match. And he's chewed them out a few other times over their disrespect and lack of support. But its all been within the context of the Guns in the Frontline or the Guns doing bad towards management. I don't recall a single occasion in which Foley forced them to remain in the stable and I KNOW they joined of their own free will before Foley got involved.

 

And I don't know, I don't buy the last part of your argument. I agree that there's something screwy about a group this side allying when they are in competition with each other. But I don't see how that means that its ok for the Guns to routinely lie and mock the Frontline and to watch as Creed gets beat down and injured. But at the same time your argument sounds like one that calls out most every stable in wrestling history. After all, the "ultimate goal" of each wrestler is supposed to be to win "the title" so 2 singles wrestlers allied together are forced to either compromise their goals or compete against each other. But that's not a problem created with the Frontline, its just a problem with stables in general.

 

The problem with the Frontline is of course that its too large and cumbersome, and that for all their numbers they've consistently failed at the very goal they united for. But of course, in that regard the Guns' inaction is at least in part part of that problem. After all, while Morgan, Booker, and Steiner were able to take out Young, Creed, and Lethal last week... in theory the Guns would have given the Frontline an edge that could have won the fight (you know, in kayfabe logic divorced from our realization that TNA loves to book the faces getting beat down).

 

EDIT: I'm very wordy so I apologize if that looks like a rant.

[RedJed 0]

Jesus christ guys, that MCMG's angle isn't hard at all to grasp. They intinally joined the group (and this was well BEFORE Foley was threatening them, etc) as part of the pact that the young guard gets held down, etc, etc. Soon after then, the disrespect towards the rest of the Frontline started, and it has continued on and off, more on than off. Then, when Beer Money laid out Creed, there was heat on the Machine Guns because they didn't help their faction out when they were RIGHT THERE, in fact being overtly heelish by laying against the ropes, acting like nothing was happening. Seriously guys, this isn't a hard thing to wrap your head around if you are following TNA regularly.

 

Anyway, I wasn't all too impressed with that show last night, I'm just not feeling this ppv at all, and may skip out on it, or at least just catch it on an online feed or something, just doesn't seem worth throwing down any sort of money on. The Sting/Angle heat.....eh.....couldn't they do this some other way to lead to the inevitable Sting face turn? Like not have it all lead to Angle v. Sting? Angle/Sting is just old rehashed stuff from the past that we've been through before. And that main event for the ppv, ugh. But the rest of this card just doesn't grab me at all either. Shane Sewell is awful, and this feud with Booker is about as basic as you can get. Petey/Steiner and Morgan/Abyss has be a bit interested, but not enough to throw down money on this show. And Brutus Magnus is f'n brutal.....period.

 

The only really good part of the show I felt was the Abyss promo. Solid stuff there, finally turning him back into more of what we are to expect with that character.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

The only AAO match I'm looking forward to in the slightest is Booker/Sewell mostly because I see so little TNA that Sewell hasn't even begun to get on my nerves yet, if he will at all.

[LuckyLopez 0]

The PPV doesn't do a lot for me either but I'm mildly curious to see how things play out on a lot of stuff. Petey/Steiner has me mildly curious as to whether its a MEM squash or if Petey gets a win to try and help him. I don't want to dismiss Magnus on 1 Shark Boy squash so I'm mildly interested to see him in a 2nd match that might get time, especially since I suspect it might be Daniels/Suicide who answers the call so if he can't do something good with Daniels then maybe I can write him off. Abyss/Morgan could end up a good bloody ordeal and could be a moment for Morgan. The tag and X title matches could be good matches and both seem like good shots at title changes (not that I want to see EY win the title but I'll at least care to find out if he does). Joe presumably will appear and do something, but who knows what?

 

As much as the main event sucks and the Angle/Sting stuff has been telegraphed there's a silly part of me that thinks things can get interesting. Angle talking the Dudleyz into joining him making the match a 3-on-1 won't do anything for wrestling quality, but if I get really crazy I can imagine Angle winning the belt and Foley coming out with Hernandez to get a real world title match. Not that I really expect it to happen but it seems at least plausible.

 

I wouldn't pay for this PPV but it probably has enough I'm mildly curious about to check out. Of course that doesn't help TNA if I'm not willing to drop $30.

[cd213 0]

I forgot where I read it, probably on lords of pain or wrestleview, last week some time, but they are reporting with AJ not being on the PPV this month, it's the first time he has nott been on PPV. He's been on everyone from the first show through last month.