Coffin Surfer

Backdrop Driver/Nodowa-Kawada/Taue Electric Chair Drop/Nodowa off ring apron-Kawada/Taue Powerbomb/Nodowa-Kawada/Taue Sitout Thunderfire Powerbomb/Super Nodowa-Inoue/Inoue Double Tiger Driver-Misawa/Kobashi Backdrop/Super Nodowa-Jumbo/Taue Spike Powerbomb-Terry Gordy/Steven Williams Demoition Device-Demolition Double Slingshot Backdrop Driver-Can Am Connection Spike Double Back Body Drop-Fantastics(most brutal move ever).

Bossman stealing Big Show's father's corpse. Most likely, the funniest thing I will ever see. It's just so absurd, it's brilliant. I mean, what happened afterwards, did the Bossman just go cruising down the high way, pulling a casket behind him? Hell, the whole Bossman/Big Show fued was great, as well as him killing Al Snow's dog and feeding it to him. Watching Hogan vs. Warrior Wrestlemania 6 live on PPV. Totally insane, jumping up and down excitement from this kid. The post match stuff at 6/3/94 probably moved me more in a dramatic way than any other wrestling releated momemnt in my adult life. The crowd chant changing from "Misawa" to "Kawada", the hand shake, Kawada finally earning the respect he had fought so hard for. The only wrestling moment that came incredibly close to bringing me to tears. 6/9/95. Kawada's revenage on Kobashi and Misawa. Especially the early cheap shots. The classic Misawa and Co. vs. Jumbo and Co. six man tags are loaded with some of my favorite moments: Misawa and Jumbo's first pull apart brawl. Taue and Kawada's pull apart brawl at 4/91, plus the cheap shots that led up to it. Kawada flipping off Fuchi. Kawada and Kobashi taking turns torturing Taue in the Tree of Woe while pointing and laughing at Jumbo.....etc.

A really excellent match, in terms of match structure, drama, and crowd heat it's about as close a U.S. wrestling match has ever got to the All Japan Main Events of the 90s. Easily, a top 3 WWF match. Not only does Austin's actions make his aggressive "win at all costs" attitude crystal clear, his body language and facial expressions do as well. Austin also makes great use of his time, keeping things intresting with a nice mid range brawling offense. The Rock on the other hand isn't quite as creative at filling his time, and tends to get a little lost from time to time, but Austin does a great job of covering up for him by simply selling his ass off. The false finishes are really nice, especially the Rock's Sharpshooter which comes at a point when its a perfectly acceptable match ender. It comes around the 20 minute mark if I'm not mistaken, it's a counter to a Stunner, and it's a move that famously beat Austin before. Very smart work. The same can be said for the rest of the false finishes too. About the finish. I don't have a problem with Vince getting involved, but did it have to be so damn goofy? In such a intense match, a comedy spot like The Rock chasing Vince around the ring feels so out of place. Other than that, good stuff.

"So 2GOLD, you're saying it's okay for children that age to see any gore? Hell, I know it was pretty light on the gore, but children that age shouldn't be exposed to any sort of gore whatsoever." Bullshit, In the early and mid 80s I was raised on violent action and horror movies, and I turned out alright...I think. Besides it really depends on the individual. Anyway, saw the movie last night, and I have mixed feelings on it. About the comedy thing, yes the original had alot of it too. But the original also had a nice feeling of dread and impending doom, that wasn't really as present in this film. So it's fairly easy to see why some people take it lightly, and even consider it a total black comedy. Even if both movies share humor, the tone of the two films is just totally different, at least from my perspective. As a stand alone film, I thought it was decent. I don't think I'll rent or buy it or anything, but if I was to catch it on T.V. by chance, I would probably watch it again.

air raid crash.

I haven't seen half of these matches, but I haven't seen most of these matches ever pimped either. 6. Jushin Lyger vs. Naoki Sano - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title (7/13/89) 7. Jushin Lyger vs. Naoki Sano - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title (8/10/89) -Dragonfly Kid pimps these in the "matches to check out" folder. Which you should you know, probably check out. 11. Jushin Lyger vs. Chris Benoit - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title (11/1/90) -All their matches kind of blend together for me, and I haven't watched them in a long time, nor am I even sure of the dates of the ones I watched. Though obviously, they didn't leave a big impression on me. 14. Jushin Lyger vs. Owen Hart (4/28/91) -Eh. Solid match, not much else. 17. Jushin Lyger vs. Chris Benoit in a Mask vs. Title Match - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Title (7/4/91) -See above. 19. Jushin Lyger vs. El Samurai - TOSJ Final Match (4/30/92) -All time CLASSIC. 30. Jushin Lyger vs. Hayabusa - J-Cup 1994 (4/16/94) -Not bad for what it is. 31. Jushin Lyger vs. Ricky Fuji - J-Cup 1994 (4/16/94) -On the actual JCup tape, I watched it once, but now I just fast forward it. 32. Jushin Lyger vs. Great Sasuke - J-Cup 1994 (4/16/94) -It's not a classic, but it still kicks loads of ass. One of the first matches I ever saw in my adult life that totally drew me in, and made me care about the performers. Jushin Lyger vs. Black Tiger - BOSJ Final Match (6/12/96) -Great match. No Lyger/Ohtani or Lyger/Sano(1/30/90)! Funny they can have all these matches, and still leave out some of Lyger's best matches. I'd keep my money.

"AJPW stuff from about 1985-on. NJPW stuff from about 1983-on. I do like the Light Heavyweight stuff (Skydiving J is a guilty pleasure), but the heavyweight stuff and AJPW tag team stuff (including Gordy & Williams v Hansen & Spivey et al) just didn't click for me whatsoever." I like the Heavies more than the juniors. Never saw Gordy/Williams vs. Hansen/Spivey so I can't comment. "Just off the top of my head --- BOTH of his matches with Ric Flair. Now, I love Flair's work --- and I had a hard time maintaining interest in EITHER of them. The selling was spotty (it has goten exponentially worse over time) and the match just dragged. I have NEVER seen the "greatness" of Jumbo. He is a piddling worker, at best, in my eyes." I need to see the Jumbo/Flair matches, but I've heard there not that good so I've stayed clear of them. Jumbo is one of the best sellers I've ever seen, especially at 10/91 against Kawada. He puts over a headlock throughout the entire duration of the match. Than he can turn around and have an uber fast sprint with a young Kobashi the same year. Than you have his mat classics with Robinson, his brawls with Race, and the epic storytelling of his match with Funk. One of the most accomlipshed, well rounded wrestlers I've ever had the pleasure of watching. "And it fits. Are you going to attempt to claim that there is not a SIGNIFICAN percentage of puro geeks who are as blinded to the product as ECW fans were when you mentioned that an ECW PPV was, at best, OK?" Stereotyping is never a good thing, because there is always exceptions. "And I apologized for my comments. You have yet to do so. -=Mike" And I won't, nor do I accept yours, because I believe it not to be sincere. So that's that.

"I've seen MORE than my fair share of puro (I've been liquidating my tape collection and my collection of Japanese wrestling is nothing to sneeze at) and I can say, based on my experience, that Japanese wrestling is laden with bad selling that even Michaels would mock and head drops. " It depends on what matches your talking about, your generalizing the entire country which is loaded with multiple promotions, and multiple styles. Bad selling and head drops sounds like NOAH and alot of the later All Japan stuff, if so, than I would agree. "If people attached the same standards to ANY of a LARGE number of Japanese heavyweight (AJPW and NJPW up to 2000 --- I lost all patience with the crap with the rather tepid Kawada v Sasaki matches) that they attach to American wrestling, they'd DUMP on the product big-time." What you fail to realize is that alot of people(including me) do rightfully dump on the current product and the bad matches that have been crapped out over the years. "I mock Japanese wrestling because, darn it, it DESERVES it. It deserves it as much as American wrestling does" Yes, alot of it does. " --- but the elitist geeks out there (and don't even TRY and claim that they don't exist) " Yes, they do exist. "Jumbo matches were slow, tedious, not all that well worked, and laden with crap selling" Can you give a specific example, or are you just gonna continue to be vague and mysterious. "Puro elitists are every inch as blinded and annoying as ECW freaks were back when some bought into the hype that ECW had great wrestling or that RVD v Lynn was anything more than a mildly above average series of matches. You CAN'T discuss things with them and trying to do so is a waste of time." Lotta generalizing and stereotyping going on. "I never insinuated that I nailed his mother OR father --- but apparently I am the bad guy in all of this. Groovy" How stupid do you really thing people are? Most everybody here is smart enough to see that you and that snuxboxwhatever guy were flame baiting and acting like idiots. The mother and father comment was spawned by you insinuating that I jack off to male wrestling matches, but you know...your totally innocent and everything. At least I'll admit that I'm a trouble maker.

"Smackdown was okay, but I hate WWE style. Rey/Eddie from Halloween Havoc in WCW featured all types of awesome highspots which the WWE will not let their wrestlers do, in fear of actually entertaining the fans." You also have to remember that it isn't 97 for either man with injuries, weight gain..etc. They still used alot of high spots(nothing as wild as Havoc though), it's just the match as a whole wasn't as fluid and quick. I thought the match was decent, and it's heart was in the right place. I enjoyed watching Rey come up with different escapes for Eddy's arm holds, rather smart wrestling. Still the timing and structure of the match felt kind of off, I wish I could elaborate but I didn't record the match or anything, and I have to go by memory. Rey's selling of the arm also left something to be desired, I don't mind him using it or anything, but he just didn't seem to be able to make the arm work seem as threatening it should have if since it was going to somewhat direclty play into the finish. The La Magistral Cradle was a good finish though.

at Mike's post. Why do you guys keep him around, some sort of perverse curiosity? He's so cute when he's trying to act mature and intelligent. "Tawren...***** doesn't mean a match has to be perfect, so kindly think before you post next time. No match is PERFECT. Whever it be the slightest slip or a mildly boring part of a match, nothing is perfect." Correct, no match is perfect. The concept of a "worked wrestling match" is flawed by design, and no matter what, something can always be done better. Hell, by your logic no match can ever be ***** because the ROH three way was or because Flair/Steamboat was, or whatever else was five stars." I don't think there's anything wrong with "taking points" off a match, because it's simply not as good as another match. The star rating is suppose to be a quick reference to determine the difference in quality between matches, correct? If so, it makes perfect sense to place other matches higher on the scale, not because they have less flaws, but because one match is just plain better done. Even if the three way has no flaws, it doesn't mean it's as good as say Flair/Steamboat. I haven't seen the match, so I can't really comment, this is just a hypothesis. If you have a case where it's damn near impossible to decide which match is better, or a damn good argument could be made for placing one over the other. Than you then you have situation where you could give both mathces ***** because they are said to be equally good or on the same level. That's how I look at. Star ratings don't matter anyway, it's all about how analyze the match.

Your doing a knock out job, buddy. (thumbs up) ....no wander this place is a hell hole. edit: I know your just joking around dude, but seriously, I know this folder has been having some problems, and it can easily come off like your encouraging this nonsense to continue. I would eventually like to dicuss WWE stuff here, but goofy posters like this makes it impossible.

"Ah, the diaper is about to get changed, I suppose." Why did you shit your pants? "And miss you piss and moan about it?" Who's pissing and moaning? Your the one who's bitching and crying because somebody happened to not like a match as much as you. Instead of debating, you decided to be childish and lay out the boring, overplayed puro elitist name calling which got old years ago. This guy didn't say one damn thing about puro, until you guys started bringing it up. "He who uses profanity has already lost the debate." Fuck you, cock sucker. And since when have you tried to intelligently debate anything? "IT'S SO UNFAIR! HOW DARE ANYBODY DISCUSS PURO IN LESS THAN GLOWING TERMS!" I don't give a damn if you bash it, but brining it up in a folder for no reason is just getting things off topic. Why don't the fucking mods do there jobs, and police this place a little better? "KAWADA IS MY GOD! I'M SERIOUS, HE'S MY GOD! I WORSHIP HIS SHRINE, THEN STIFF SOME GUY IN THE HEAD BEFORE DROPPING HIM ON HIS HEAD! BUT ONLY ON 11/7, BECAUSE IT'S THE ANNIVERSARY..." What the fuck is 11/7, the anniversary of you getting dropped on your head as an infant? "You never need a reason to bash puro because the joy of watching puro geeks flip the heck out is ALWAYS worth a chuckle." Believe me, your ignorant ramblings has given me plenty of more good chuckles than I could ever give you. "Now, just go off and blow your load off the latest Kojima match and leave us in peace." I would but I've already dumped a huge load in your mom's mouth...and your dad's flabby ass. "Dude sucked balls. I didn't make him be so blah in the ring. " Your ability to analyze matches is outstanding. "I accused you of being a puro geek, actually." Insult?

He gave it **1/2, defended it, and made no mention of the great Misawa. Your the one who's bringing it up. If you want to ask your bullshilt little questions take them to the puro folder.

Oh, and one last thing fucktards. If you don't want to discuss puro in the WWE folder than quit fucking bringing it up for no apparent reason. This is the second thread I've seen it being brought up and bashed for no real reason. Seriously, what the hell does Misawa have to do with Wrestlemania?

"Don't you have some match dates to go look up or something?" Oh my god, that's funny stuff man. "Nobody is more annoying that a puro geek." Not nearly as annoying as someone who can't type. "Yup, never seen Japanese wrestling. Never once. I can say, though, that Jumbo Tsurta sucked some hardcore balls in the ring." My how intelligent you are. (sarcasm) And you accuse people of being biased.

"--- it's simply transition stuff. Japanese wrestlers love elbows and the like, Americans love chops" Man oh man. This guy is a riot. You have no idea how stupid you are sounding. Until you've seen any wrestling from Japan, please refrain from making statements based on assumptions you have no basis for. Your just embarssing yourself. American's love chops, Japanese wrestlers love elbows.

less than the number of clotheslines in a Misawa match Im sure.... Hey dumbass, yes you dumbass. This has nothing to do with opinion, just you being stupid. Misawa rarely uses clotheslines, he's more fond of elbows. Misawa has a Diving Lariat that he occasionally busts out from time to time, probably less than one per match. "I rate on my entertainment of a match. That is why I can call Savage vs Steamboat better than any Misawa vs Kawada match I seen, because I was more entertianed by the WM3 match. " I rate on the quality of the work, which is why Savage/Steamboat isn't in the same universe as the better Misawa/Kawada matches. I find Kawada's surreal selling of Misawa's elbows at 10/92 more entertaining than Steamboat's punch drunk selling of Savaga's throat offense. Hell, at least Hogan grabbed his throat and coughed at Wrestlemania V.

I just watched Super J Cup 94 finals which has Sasuke vs. this Goo Benwah character, and I only counted one real mat wrestling sequence(Sasuke reverses a Figure Four Sleeper to a Surfboard than a Bow and Arrow Lock). It's not really meaningless either since it's a transition spot.

I can't comment on WWE matches, but I will comment on the New Japan stuff. For starters, in alot of the junior matches regarded as classics the mat work did end up playing a big role in the match, went somewhere, or it at least had some "meaning", and at times there are even junior matches with no real mat work. In general, the mat work in New Japan was all about timing. For the most part, it's a fool proof way to build a match. As WP suggested, it makes the bombs away portion more important, more exciting..etc. This doesn't just apply to juniors, it's the same basic match building principles that ties together almost all pro style matches. Unless it's a sprint or a spot fest, most well structured matches do to tend to start of slow and build their way up. It's not like the mat work is a total boring waste of time either. In alot of the better matches, the mat work is fast tends to go back and forth, and has good usage of "mat high spots" if you will. And as I already mentioned, does tend to have meaning. However, yes there are matches where the mat work is boring, and does tend to go nowhere.

kobashi-misawa 6/11/99-How many times does it really need to be said? These guys haven't had a great match together since 10/97. After that their matches detiorated into slow, mindless head dropping, bad selling, ...etc. kobashi-kawada 10/18/96-Ugh. The first 30 minutes plays out like a uber slow, really boring match, while the last 30 minutes is just a bunch of stupid aimless head dropping and endless laying around(the real thing). Plus, you have Kobashi doing one of the worst Backdrop Driver sells of his career in the opening, which is saying alot. Try to watch this in one sitting without hitting fast forward, I dare you. misawa/kobashi-kawada/taue 6/9/95-Classic. kobashi-misawa 10/31/98-See 99, really how may times does it need to be said? Go watch their 93 Carnies match, instead. misawa-tsuruta 6/8/90-Classic. misawa-tsuruta 9/1/90-Classic. vader-inoki 1/4/96-One of the greatest true carry jobs of all time. hansen-kobashi 4/10/94-Step down from their 93 work, but Hansen makes up for it by busting out some of the finest selling you'll ever see. kobashi-taue 7/24/95-Very disappointing match. Good stuff with the Sleeper at the end. Their 96 TC match is light years better, featuring a classic performance from a more confident Taue. misawa/kobashi-kawada/taue 12/3/93-Classic. Kawada is God. kerry voneric-tsuruta 5/22/84-I've heard great things about it from people who's opinions I trust. kawada-taue champ carny 93-Great super fun match where they actually get some heat on submissions by using smart set ups. misawa-kawada 7/29/93-Slow start but it's rich in mind games and what not. Brutal finish plays an important role in 6/3/94. hansen-kobashi 4/16/93 -Classic. kobashi/misawa/hansen-kawada/taue/baba 3/24/95-Eh....kind of average.

I guess I must be the only person who likes Coy way better than Ejiro. Come on, southern red neck wrestlers is what U.S. wrestling is all about. The only thing I don't like about Coy is that I hate it when wresters don't wear some sort of wrestilng gear inside the ring, wear what you want to the ring, but in the ring wear something that you could reasonably wrestle in. I like the low key moveset, and the Slingshot Vertical Suplex is a great finisher, because it's easy to tease, set up, build to, and escape. You can have the most complex crazy ass finisher in the world, but if you can't build to it and tease it effectively, it's value is diminished.

Huh, Why? Dont get me wronng Danny, it's just I've probably gone on enough about wanting to have that match, that's all. Oh o.k., I was a bit perplexed, since I got a "let us never speak of this match again" vibe from the post. By the way you did a great job with the post and pre match stuff, probably some of the best stuff you've ever written. The mid-portion of the match you wrote was well done too, though if I had to make a criticism it would be the use of the German Suplex pin, which brings the total up to 4. Not as bad as a Kurt Angle match since the German's get more effective as the match goes on during the final run, but it is a little out of place.

Huh, Why?

Why would a normal match get *****? There's only like 5 or 6 pro style matches that I would actually give *****, and the country they took place in doesn't factor into the rating.

What country the match takes place in has nothing do with how good it is. "Yes, I felt Liger/Ohtani was ***3/4. OMG I'm an idiot, right? Grow the fuck up, so I didn't LOVE LOVE LOVE a match you felt was one of the best ever. "