RedJed

Just some quick thoughts since alot is already being sentimented here by others.... The production on this show was fucking phenominal and made it stand out more than ever as the "Super Bowl of Wrestling" from that standpoint. The fireworks in addition to the usual pyro made certain entrances and after-match ceremonies that much more special. That's the advantage of being outdoors, in that you can do so much more in certain ways. But everyone from the lights, sounds, camera-work (those shots of Flair and Michaels staring each other down after HBK slapped Flair and busted his lip were top notch), video packages, and everything else other than maybe the exception of Michael Cole and Coach annoucing, really was just off the charts. The HD element really has given WWE a really polished and visually fresh experience. Ranking this one up there with my personal favorites, I will say this much. It's right up there in quality overall with Mania XVII for sure, which was my perennial favorite along with Mania III and Mania X as well (all of the noted have their own special qualities, definately each not just for the straight wrestling quality). So, depending how this views over and over (and I've already watched it twice and am itching to throw the recorded copy of it back in the DVD player already) this is probably going to be my favorite Mania of them all. The pace of the show and match placements I thought were right on. As far as match quality, you had about as average of a Umaga/Batista match as you can get, and a women's match that was pretty expectedly rough (saved only for the lights going out to keep me entertained), but everything I felt was good to great to unbelievably awesome. Flair/Michaels is going to be one of those matches that people will remember for history, and is undoubtadly one of the biggest and emotional "Mania moments" ever. Given the whole experience of it all, that may be the first match I can really say I could throw a ***** down to, really. Just absolutely off the charts great stuff there. Edge/Taker, as I was thinking, was certainly the show stealer as well. I was actually thinking Edge was going to get put over there, and he did, even though he lost. Orton also was put over very strong in the triple threat, which was shocking to see, but not completely surprised given Raw's ending last week (where Orton jobbed to Flair). That triple threat match, I think, was just all around tremendous stuff, and what a finish. MITB I thought was, to me, the strongest of that series so far just given the fact they worked that match so tight to show that everyone was given fair shake in getting over in there, too. Very creative stuff here too. The rest of the show certainly wasn't the average ppv filler stuff, so all in all, this show really delivered more than it ever has to me.

What does "the Benoit situation" have to do with this whatsoever? I'm not following the correlation.....

Looking forward to a Kane ECW title run for some reason.....there's no excuse to NOT give him the belt tonight. Visually, as others have already said, the look of it all there in Orlando is something else.

But shouldn't that purpose be saved for the U.S. and IC titles, basically?

Has anyone seen King of Kongs: Fistful of Quarters yet? Holy fucking shit, this is most pathetic look at human life I think I've ever witnessed. I'm a gamer just as much as the next guy, but these idiots in this documentary on classic arcade competitions/record breaking are the uber geeks of the uber geeks. Definately got some hilarious spots but for the most part, I was just amazed at how these people in the documentary literally LIVE life around Kong, PacMan, etc. Particularly, the mullet sporting, beaver lookin guy who held the record for Donkey Kong (although nobody ever saw him DO it, the guy videotaped it, and then refused to ever even attempt to match his own record in front of anyone) came across as the biggest fucking twatstain alive in this country.

WTF, talk about going off topic here, what does me as a TNA fan (and mind you, not an "exclusive TNA fan" - I enjoy TNA just as much as WWE, ECW, ROH, etc - they all have their positive points) have to do with ANYTHING? What was I even arguing on the ECW title other than the obvious that it just doesn't stand out as special? So you don't like Jeff Jarrett, neither do I. And you're talking about a clearly valid and obvious mistake anyone could claim with Jarrett as the TNA/NWA champion, it has nothing to do with shit here. This is not comparing the current usage of the TNA title to the ECW title whatsover since Jarrett hasnt even been champion for a year and ahalf. Lets not get off topic here, dude. I'm not saying that WWE shouldn't treat the ECW title as a "world" title (which, as it has been said in this thread, it isn't even being treated as. As the major title in ECW, sure, but it's not even being labeled as a "world" title anymore - probably to not confuse it with Smackdown's belt) - all I was saying is that they should try to make it standout as unique (ala the title where it has to be defended under extreme rules, cmon it just makes sense, its fucking ECW after all) versus just another belt sitting around really not standing out whatsoever. Alot of the problem with it is this.... 1) The title isn't given to guys that are really even that over in most cases, and could legitimately carry the brand. 2) The title is showcased in opening to middle parts of each ppv the title has been defended on, barring December to Dismember. And realistically, it never will go beyond that regardless of the uniqueness they try to create the title as.

More news on the Mayweather/Show match courtesy of Mayweather himself on some BET show today.... - The match is "No Holds Barred" - Mayweather did a hard sell saying it will be crazy and wild. When asked if 50 Cent would be there he said its possible and anyone could be there (on a side note, if 50 Cent IS there, that's silly that they haven't really advertised that much). - Mayweather reiterated that he and Show can do what they want in this match (I dont know if thats a hint at parts of it being shoot or what?).

Unfortunately, the only guy I could realistically see doing a run-in on Show at this point is Orton, and that would be horribly dull. EDIT - Possibly Jericho too I guess given the angle they did with them on Raw weeks ago.

Yeah, the live gate doesnt lie there, and time will tell on the buyrate, but I can see this ppv appealing much more to a MMA demographic as well, kind of blending itself to a more broad audience. I think freaking out about a .1 to .2 drop in a rating is premature at best for the company, but certainly wouldn't surprise me to see them freak out about it. I doubt it really has anything to do with people tuning out because they are making a change in the product more than it is that people were starting to tune out because the product was getting too hokey and lame and hard to follow, and they are still just feeling the effects from that, how it was months ago.

Wow, I have no freakin idea how to explain that rating at all. I thought the show had that "hooking" feel to it. And it was on its normal timeslot and whatnot.

Well, I think we all know the finish now. KO to Show, nighty night.

I think we all know that no matter how much it is stated by the company that the ECW title is a "major" title, nobody buys it, and given who is the current titleholder, its just showing that it really isn't given that much, I dunno, prestige? The only exceptions to that rule was when Show and Punk have had it, for some reason, maybe because those two are much more over than the rest? And shouldnt that be a preresiquite to hold a major title anyway? Thats where the confusion lies in this title. My thought is that from Mania onward, they should just turn the ECW title into what moreless would be a more prominent version of the Hardcore title, if they are insistant on presenting in such an inferior way. Every ECW title match HAS to be done under extreme rules, no exceptions. That gives reason to have the extreme rules gimmick presented every so often, and it would fit guys more conditioned in the "brawler" type role. I could easily see Kane get a run in that manner, and I certainly would love to see a JBL "ECW sucks and I'm going to beat everyone's ass" type run with the belt as well. Bottom line is that at least the belt would stand out as something unique, versus this third brand "world" title that really is nothing that even matters at this point.

While I think the build has been mostly shit for Mania except for Flair/Michaels and the limited (but extremely effective) angles they did for Mayweather/Show, I am still definately looking forward to the show. I would fully expect probably three to four matches that get near or at **** here, probably MITB, Taker/Edge (which I would predict as the match not expected to stand out but will somehow), Flair/Michaels, and Cena/HHH/Orton). More than anything, as weird as this sounds, I'm super interested how the actual presentation of Mania will be, from the HD viewpoint of the "spectacle" that is Mania to the set designs all over the stadium, to the possibility of storms in the background, etc. I dont know what the capacity of the Citrus Bowl is, but if they actually get the place moreless sold out (even papered) it will be a site to see.

I was really overall impressed with the live show last night. I wish they would do the show live, say, once a month even, as it makes a difference in how it comes across on TV, especially from the passe Impact Zone location (which to me, needs all the help in an overall feel as it can get). You can just tell the difference in a canned TNA show versus a live one, big time. Maybe it was because of the different type of crowd there last night too (because of Mania of course) but I wasn't as annoyed with the fans as I usually am when I watch Impact, OR Tenay/West either. The fans were amped up and responding to just about everything, and I didn't feel like Tenay and West were reading from a script as much as normal. All in all, the show came across as a larger "ppv calibur" event versus just another week of Impact, which I had yet to see done in all of the "special" Impacts they have done in the past (first two hour show, first show on Spike, etc). I also liked the idea of the website interaction with the two "voted upon" matches. In essense, this is what WWE should have done versus having an actual ppv of all voted upon matches, as it helps promote their website within the show and at the same time give instant satisfaction in a sense that what you are voting for RIGHT NOW will happen in a matter of hours later, or minutes. The downfall of Cyber Sunday is they want you to vote on these matches and gimmicks that you have to pay money to see the matches and arent even guaranteed to get what you want. In presenting it on a major edition of the normal wrestling show, it creates less confusion and annoyance for the fan, if that makes any sense. Plus they didn't water down the voting gimmick to where it gets repetitive, which has always been my main distaste for Cyber Sunday/Taboo Tuesday too. They took the idea from the UFC shows on Spike to have the main event "uninterrupted" as well, which I think is a great formula to present when you are trying to make a show like this stand out as something memorable (which it was). And, as any good weekly wrestling show should have, the ending left me wanting more, as in that I was shocked to see Storm show up out of nowhere, and now interested how this plays into Lethal Lockdown. Some small annoyances with the show though include: -The really lame ass Val/Lethal shit, with Dutt involved. I understand they are trying comedy here (and seems to be continuous "inside" jabs at Randy Savage) but it just doesn't fit the context of this storyline, really. Can Lethal just quit fucking talking like Savage all the time when he's on these "dates?" It would be fine normally, but they just spent weeks before establishing Lethal as legit with a few outstanding promos from him in the ring, and now that he has the belt back and is "happy" he goes back to playing a ridiculous gimmick, even out of the ring. I would think going on a date with a guy who rambles like Randy Savage would get old. Wait a minute, maybe they will address that if Val ends up going with Dutt? Val will turn Lethal "real" or something. -Pointing out Robbie from the Highlanders in the crowd. From an outside "fans" perspective, it comes across lame as nobody really cares if jobroni is there watching, and from the inside "business" perspective, its very low brow of TNA to do that to a guy who is there to probably see friends, but more importantly, to indirectly somewhat support the TNA product by waiting in line just like everyone else, etc. I would even think if, say WWE fired him because of this, there may be grounds for a lawsuit of sorts. -"Rough Cut" - I think the idea is fantastic and I hope they use it to promote other matches in the future, but its just not working for this one. -Botched audio issues w/ Consequences Creed promo. They should have re-inserted that vignette later in the show. -Karen Angle interview, less hokey than most of Tenay's interviews in how they are presented, but I just wasn't feeling it, didn't suspend by belief that this is any different than last year's Karen shenanigans. Then again, limiting the Karen shit to just this simple segment is a huge positive. -Having that weird women in the backstage segment cut right as they cut to a commercial in the middle of a match. Just didn't need to be there. The show started off strong with Booker and Roode brawling. This feud is one of very few that has drawn interest to be in the build of their feud via the angles, and this just continued that. Its just too bad these two just dont connect as much when they actually HAVE the matches with each other. With that said, I thought the first blood match was alot better than any of their previous exchanges as both of these guys worked in the style you would expect from a heated feud, with intensity and purpose. The bladejob Roode did was borderline pathetic though. Devine/Shelley was a strong and solid *** match, I thought. Was a bit surprised to see Shelley jobbing out, but it wasn't exactly clean and they are trying to keep the focus on Shelley and Sabin for the tag team ranks, so having him in the Xscape match wouldnt make much sense anyway. LAX was showcased just about flawlessly in their match w/ Steiner and Petey. Was Steiner working stiff and/or pissed off or something? Or did he just have his working boots on, because he was bumping damn good too. Sounds like there is clear direction with LAX gunning for the tag belts, which is good to see and not that TNA just "forgot" they have already won a contenders match for a title shot. I'm thinking that at Lockdown, the MCMGs will win that match to establish both LAX and MCMGs as top contenders equally. OBD-Kong was just as good as their ppv match, not better though either. Perfectly fine stuff though. Kong won literally out of nowhere. The Joe/Angle build just continues to impress me. Good solid promo by Joe, nice small video package of his training, etc. The segment in the ring with Angle v. Styles and Tomko was fantastic as well. Tomko looked good in there with Angle (which I'm sure was the intention) and Styles played his character well, at first timid on hooking up with Angle (guilt of feelings for Karen?) and then starts sparring a bit with Angle and shows him he can go. Then to segway that to the return of the Sting was really well done, I thought. Simple yet very effective. Frank Trigg did a great job on commentary, too. I enjoyed the main event for sure. Perfect showcase for the Lockdown match, since it appears now that it will be a 5 vs 5 deal at the ppv, with Storm added. One would guess we have either Abyss returning for this match, or else Jarrett? If TNA could do shows like this every week, we would see movement in the ratings, and probably the buyrates too, since this show got me more interested in the top two matches on that card for sure.

Wow...........ok, this isn't even going to be settled out of court. He has absolutely no case whatsoever.

In most of Europe, IIRC, that isn't even the legit stuff. It's banned in most countries, etc, etc. I had the purest of the pure (according to everyone I was with and the establishments that served it to me) when I was over in the Czech Republic (Prague) about five years ago. Took four shots in about an hour period and I was definately feeling something, albeit not a typical "drunk." Took a walk outside after leaving the one club with the fourth shot in me, and I was getting a pseudo-psychedelic effect at the time, but it wasn't anything overtly "trippy." Made me feel like I was just really stoned to the max in a sense, but yet I didn't have the scatteredness in the brain that one would have from, say, smoking a massive amount of pot. But yeah, the next day I felt like absolute shit. I purposefully didn't drink anything but the shots that night, because I heard the hype about it and wanted to see what it was all about. I don't know what else to say about it really other than it tastes really REALLY bitter and harsh, even with the sugarcube dissolved in it. It was suggested to mix it with tonic or something water-esque to that effect, but we just took straight shots of it, and none of them particularly went down smooth. There is so many variations of it, though, that if you don't want the full effect, I'm sure it's around to accomodate. I'm sure the U.S. versions are an absolute joke in itself.

This may have been brought up in the ECW thread, but I'm surprised how weak the lineup for the 24 man battle royale looks on paper. Guys like Richards, Colin Delaney, Big Daddy V.....just those three off the top of my head could have and should have been put in this match. Whatever the case, I guess it doesnt really matter anyway since the match isnt even going to be on ppv itself. Real surprised BDV isnt on here, though.

I think Tomko could still be turned back to a hard-edged no nonsense babyface, ala Batista/HHH back in 04 into 05. Keep in mind they did a subtle tease of a face turn for Batista shortly after HHH got the belt back from Orton, didn't go with it immediately (I recall a Raw that moreless strongly suggested Batista was going to turn on HHH at the end of the show, and then he ended up helping him instead with a win over whoever) and then followed up on it back again slowly, and as such, the feud got pretty hot there leading to Mania 21. This could happen similar down the road, especially if we see which looks to be a guaranteed feud with Styles and Angle. Tomko's role within that feud will be interesting.

How is Dustin under a contract of any sort, yet working continuously in TNA? Anyway, if one guy could come back, I'm thinking Ken Shamrock. Given the upsurge of MMA, this might be a good time to bring him back and put him in the mix.

Given the result on Raw and treatment of Orton, I have to think that Orton will actually retain at Mania. I don't think Cena/Orton/HHH will be the final match at this point at Mania (I think Mayweather/Show or Michaels/Flair will actually headline as crazy as that sounds), BUT if it is, then negate everything I said and it's all HHH going over since the show has to go out on a high note, one would think (although who knows, we saw HHH go over at Mania 16). But they seem to be building Cena/HHH and Orton/Show as the next big Raw feuds after Mania. I could easily see Cena/HHH as a number one contenders match at Backlash and Orton/Show for the belt, and from there, Orton v. HHH at the next ppv after that. Otherwise, if you have HHH, OR Cena go over at Mania, I don't see any interest whatsoever in Orton/Show. Ashley returns as Maria's partner at Mania? Ugh. It's clear something is going on with her, relating to chemical use. Or else I'm seeing things. Where is Torrie anyway, wouldnt that have made a better replacement? Or maybe she's in the same boat? Really weird how she's been off TV for quite some time. Based off Raw, one would think the Mania main event has to be Flair/Michaels.....that really seemed to be the only match that had some realistic and solid build on this show. It just seemed to be the clear focus of Raw to say the least. That in ring segment by HBK/Flair was fucking GOLD. If that is in fact the last Flair promo we really ever see, he can certainly say he went out in style. I dunno, the show left me underwhelmed other than the Flair/Michaels build. I expected something more out of the Show/Mayweather build, especially. I swear I heard somewhere that Mayweather was going to be there tonight, so much for that.

Holy shit he looks like he's pushin 80...........seriously...... Is he doin karaoke in that first pic or WTF, weird.

The reality.....Karen comes out to ringside, Kurt throws a fit, climbs out of the cage (lets assume they throw a stip in there saying that it HAS to be won by pinfall or submission only) and gets on Karen's case for distracting him, pushes her down or some nonsense, out comes Styles who throws down on Kurt to the point where Angle climbs back in the cage to get away from Styles, and from there, Joe wins. Thats what is likely the realistic finish.

I agree that the match should be Joe completely clean, with no run-ins or shit of that nature (which is supposed to be the idea of having it in a cage) but I think the match can be competitive, meaning Angle doesn't just get borderline squashed. Given the MMA turn they have given with this match, there is alot more they can pull out in the match to make it exciting.

Not to get totally sidetracked here, but one has to wonder if TNA would ever bring Brown back. He has just been MIA completely from wrestling since WWE let him go.