Justice

He tried to invade Kuwait and likely would have posed a serious threat to Israel. You do realize that appeasement was used with Hitler figuring "he's not such a threat", let him just invade a country or 2 and he'll leave everyone else alone. Those who appease evil are no better than the perpretators. There's a HUGE difference betwen Hitler and Saddam. Even comparing their respective military strength of arms is preposterious. Same with comparing them at all. two different wars, two different areas of the world, two different centuries. it's apples and oranges. The only true difference is success rate. If the allies had INSTANTLY attacked Hitler after he went after Poland he'd have been screwed. Militarily, Iraq during the Persian Gulf War had one of the greatest land armies known to man in sheer bulk. But in ambition and government, no, there isn't much different with Hitler and Saddam. Just ask the Shite Muslims.

:Comes out of the shadows, dodges and lets it hits Spike, then returns to the darkness.:

Well fuck, then let's go back in time and stop WWII while we are at it. That comment doesn't make much sense, man. Well, explain to me how it is that much worse in Iraq today than it was when Saddam was in power and you'll have a valid point. Otherwise... ... ... ... A "bad" man? Are you dense? The guy has gassed his own people, committed numerous heinous acts such as torture, murder, rape (Uday picking girls off the street for this one), terrorizing his population, funding suicide bombers, and growing rich off black market trading that violated UN Orders while keeping his people in incredible poverty. This man has killed 1 Million people abroad and even more in his own country. And you only call him "bad"? The fact that you can't see this man is a bit beyond the normal "Bad" guy? God, some people... So basically you are saying we should never, under any circumstances, try to root out tolitarian governments that constantly commit horrible acts, let alone one that could easily destablize a region that is unstable already? Are you Dennis Kucinich?

"I have conclusive evidence that, apparently, I was also in Korea!"

Don't worry. One day, Michael Moore will support something that I agree with and you can use that against me .

I agree with the above sentiments. I could have sworn he made some saber rattling comments right after the Chinese Fighter/Navy Recon plane incident.

Hey Jobber, you'd better c/p that and send it to your state legislature some time soon . Edit: The spending part, that is. And thus the point of this post is lost...

I'm personally fine with Civil Unions (w/all benefits of a married couple). I just think that going for Marriage is something that'll garner way too much resistance and hostility for something so little as a word.

Holy shit, you just gave the best description of Kucinich I've ever read.

Eddy Mac: What I'm talking about is he is motivating voters on the left side of the spectrum who don't normally vote because he is making them think he's a true blue liberal. That's all fun and good, but the fact is that he's going to sacrifice those really liberal beliefs for centerist ones so he can win the election, which means he'll just turn into another "Washington Politician" that the re-motivated part doesn't like. He's either going to lose his original voting base to go after moderates or keep his original base but lose the moderates by staying to the left. And a note on "People voting just to get Bush out of Office": Everyone in Michigan thought that they could get John Engler (Someone who I personally dislike a LOT) out of office, but he won reelection twice because the candidates were either lackluster or only appealling to the far left. Fire can get you a lot of places, but Geoffery Fieger is a fiery speaker, too, and he lost BIG TIME. And Bush is FAR more popular than Prince John ever was.

What the FUCK about the Wild men of Dunland? Those boys are white trash all the way, fucktard! And the Uruk-Hai are a mix of Orc and Dunlanding anyways, so technically all the Uruks you see are half white. God, what idiots.

Actually CNN did a small bit on this not that long ago covering that it was gonna go on and who the judges were gonna be, so this isn't something that is going on in secrecy. But looking at the ads... Run them. Swear to God, run them every day 24 hours if you want; It'll be the best endorsement the Republican party has ever had because frankly, whoever makes those types of ads are the ones that normal people do NOT identify with. I say more comparing him with Hitler, less developing platforms to run on! That's the motto of the Democratic Party 2K2~!

I said it before and I'll say it again, the problem is he's going to have to go back to the center to win the election and alienate these people who actually think that he's going to run as a liberal. He can't go back to the center without loosing some of his big new voting base and he's never going to get enough "Voting sucks!" people (Which are generally leftists) to beat out the moderate vote. He's painted himself into a huge corner and I seriously don't see a way for him to get back out. See, the only reason I would see Lieberman really failing is because Democrats wouldn't give him their full support because he is more of a centerist. Lieberman could easily get a big moderate vote because of his support of the current Foreign Policy but can differentiate himself on Social issues, which is what Bush could be considered weakest on. The only way I see him being a completely damned Candidate is because of the Democrats, not the Republicans. I highlighted that because it surprised me the most. What the hell is Dean's plan for the economy besides the ultra-vague "1 Billion Dollars to Economic Growth"? Couple that with a rescintion of ALL the Bush tax cuts (Something none of the other real contenders have even dreamt of saying), I honestly don't see him doing anything besides curling up to your average active college lib or hardcore dem. Can anyone explain to me in more depth what I'm really missing here?

No, this really is the real me (really) and I'm not even so much defending it as saying that I don't think it's the end the campaign you guys think it is. Personally, I don't think it's THAT unreasonable but I don't think it's likely. Well, this alone won't end his campaign. But if he keeps up the pace of his gaffs then he's gonna go under pretty quickly. And it does lack a lot of logic to it: Try him in a place where he has committed no crimes against anyone instead of the place he actually committed his deeds? I hope you understand why this seems so out there to me...

He ran an international terror organization and had terrorist training camps. What's more illegal than that? Well, since we are looking at the criminal code of Afganistan here, we can't punish him with Afgani law retroactively since the Taliban did support his operations. And to say that's greater than the 3,000 charges of murder and conspiracy to commit murder is, well, kinda out there. Try to remember that Osama has actually done more in his life than 9/11. This is part of the problem in these debates: People who are so full of self-pity they can't see the forest for the trees and concentrate the big picture. ... Excuse me, but please explain to me what evil he has committed that is greater than what he did on September 11th, Jobber. I've never heard of him committing massive atrocities there. The Taliban, maybe. But realize this isn't the Taliban. Whatever he has done in Afganistan (If anything) is of little consequence when compared to the attacks he has committed against the US. I don't see a forest because there is only one tree, Jobber. Get it straight. Are you INANE? To compare the few things that he has directly done to a few American citizens, while tragic, does not at overrule the incredible terror and torture that he inflicted on the Iraqi people. Are you drunk tonight or something, Jobber? This is not at all like you to defend something so utterly out there like trying Osama in Afganistan.

Eh, I see Kucinich being the REAL ultra-left guy. Doesn't Dean support the NRA? Indeed he does, though gun-control has become less and less of an issue nowadays for politicians (imho). That, and his stance on Medicare makes up for that and more on the "Lefty scale". Comrade Kucinich is in a league of his own, to be honest.

You know, the more I think about it, I kinda wish Bush would do a speech, and at the end leave a little non-chalant footnote like "Oh yes, and we captured Osama Bin Laden yesterday in a cave on the Afganistan-Pakistan border. The Marine Captain who was in charge of the operation promptly took out his sidearm and put a bullet straight through his head. We'll be sending pictures out tomorrow. God bless America."

See, this is where he's going to have to kill himself. He's leaned out and bent over backwards to build this grass-roots left-wing support to get him through the primary. Problem is, to get elected, he's going to have to move way back towards the center. This is gonna mean he's going to have to drop that grass-roots support so he can appeal to a broader base, ruining this "I'm not your average politician" look. If he doesn't, he'll fail to garner the middle and lose the election. Dean has painted himself into a corner and there's no way he can get back out.

But that's what we're doing for Saddam! You do realize that's what Dean is talking about here, right? Taking him back to Afghanistan and getting a public trial there. Sure, he'll be found guilty, but it's the message that counts. But, you see, Osama didn't commit any crimes in Afganistan. What would you try him for there? This was a crime committed against the US, not Afganistan. Now the Taliban elite, okay. But Osama? Nuh-uh. He's our man. Otherwise you are just giving a flip at all the people who had family who died in 9/11 for a publicity stunt. Saddam committed his crimes against Iraqi citizens. He should be tried there. Osama committed crimes against the US. He should be tried here.

I agree with Vyce completely, though I am more a fan of James Longstreet, Lee's right-hand man. Brilliant mind as well, but oft-overlooked because he was always in either Jackson's or Lee's shadow.

See, I think it's stupid to suggest this because there is no possible way you could find an unbiased jury. Seriously, Joe off the street already knows Osama is guilty (And rightly so) and you'd have to absolutely scour the depths of Dearborn to find 12 people who actually liked him. You absolutely adore him or you want to crucify him. There's no point to a jury trial here. In all honesty, either give him a bench trial infront of the SCOTUS (Just forgo the months of appeallate courts dealing with him) or put him infront of a Military Tribunal (If it is good enough for our soldiers to be tried by it definitely should be good enough for Osama. I really never understood all the hub-bub and fear of these things...). In all likelihood he'd be put in a completely seperate block from the other inmates because of the violence that would occur. There's no way he'd be put with regular criminals, that's for sure. Personally I'd like to see a military prison built for the sheer purpose of holding these scumbags.

I swear to God I hate you guys sometimes. I really, really do. And if you call me Judge I WILL get you permabanned from everything in your life. Really.

“Damned snow..." says the voice of one William Hearford III as his Buick travels down a snow-shrouded I-94. The old man squints to see ahead of him at the exit signs as he tries to get to the gym. I really wish I hadn’t left the party so early, he thinks as he remembers back to last night at the celebration Ejiro and his family threw at the hotel. ***** “Hey, Bill, get over her!” yelled the intoxicated World Champion, walking around with more than a bit of his coordination missing, “You gotta meet my grandparents!” Hearford doesn’t respond as he sits at his own table away from most of the festivities, staring at a glass of Smirnov in front of him. His eyes are sullen, distant as he continues to stare at the same drink that he poured himself at the beginning of the party, but he just hasn’t been able to drink at all; with so many things running through his head right now he wants to just down an entire fifth, but he can’t even bring himself to take one drink. “Okay,” responds Ejiro, pulling two older Japanese people from the current circle he’s speaking and guiding them over towards the despondent old man, “I’ll bring ‘em to ya!” The inebriated Ejiro stumbles over to William, dragging along two shorter and wrinkled relatives with him. Fasaki lets them go as he puts both hands on Hearford’s chair to stop himself. “Hey Bill, meet the grandfolks!” he says as he pulls his partner up to his feet, “My Ojiisan and Obaasan!” The two natives of Japan bow, to which Hearford puts on a courtesy smile and returns the favor. The man, his hair grey and squinting his eyes with to see William in detail, is the first to speak up. “You are far bigger than our son has let us to know!” he says with a polite smile, and indeed he nearly dwarfs the old man by a foot. “It is a great honor to meet you, sir.” “Yes, the feeling is mutual,” says William, trying not to let his depression show through. “It was very interesting to watch you wrestle earlier. You fought very hard. We are sorry for your loss, though,” says the kindly old woman, and Bill stammers for a moment. “Yes, um... thank you very much. I appreciate the compliment,” he responds, landing on his feet after an awkward moment. But before the conversation can move any further, Ejiro decides to interrupt. “Ojiisan, Mom wanted to see ya. I think she’s over there near Uncle Saraguchi,” says Ejiro, starting to show concern for Bill even through his alcoholic-induced stupor. The two move off to the other side of the hall as Ejiro slides out of chair and sits down sloppily. Hearford sits down as well and goes back to staring at the glass. “That the same glass I saw an hour and a half ago, man?” “Yep,” Hearford says, nodding his head, “That would be it.” “What’s wrong, man? Don’t be fricken down about Danny, Bill; he’s beaten me twice before. It happens.” “It’s not that, ‘Jiro, it’s...” starts Hearford, but even he doesn’t really know the answer. He just trails off, staring at the glass for a few more moments. Then he pushes his chair back and stands up, lifting his coat off the chair. Ejiro shakily stands back up as well, putting his hand on his buddy’s shoulder. “Man, don’t leave, the party is still just getting started. Seriously, just sit down, drink that down, and then-“ “Ejiro,” Hearford says with resignation, “I can’t stay here. I feel too... out of place. I’m going to head out home. I’ll talk to you later, okay?” Ejiro gives a sigh. “Man, if you want to go home, that’s cool. Drive safe, okay?” “I will.” The two give a quick handshake and hug before they go on their separate ways. Ejiro looks back at the old man, who puts on his charcoal black fedora on as he walks out, and shakes his head before returning to the festivities. ***** “Christ, I probably shouldn’t have gone at all,” he tells himself, “But that would have been rude to Ejiro. Not as though leaving early wasn’t enough, though...” He gives a long sigh as he concentrates harder on seeing through the snow, the visibility continuing to go lower and lower as he approaches he travels along the highway; even at midday the snow is making it almost impossible to see. He’d better have someone good for me today, thinks the old man, Otherwise I’ll be more than angry with him. Deep down, though, Hearford knows he’d be driving out here anyways; he can’t rest right now. “There we go...” he says as he sights the exit he needs, changing lanes and exiting into Detroit. He makes a quick right, entering a neighborhood that would make 1944 Berlin look lovely. The snow continues to make him almost blind as he searches around, looking for what he wants. Finally, he catches it through the whitewash: X. P. Milligan’s Gym. **** “Mill!” says Hearford as he enters with his trenchcoat and fedora, his duffelbag hanging off at his side. “Bill! Christ, I can’t believe you made it out here today!” responds the brown-greying haired man. He walks over, wearing a sweatshirt and sweatpants as he puts his clipboard under his arm to give his old friend a quick handshake and pat on the back. “Yeah, we got some youngins’ that are really ready to get an assbeating from someone who knows what they are doing.” Hearford gives a small chuckle, “You know, though, how I’ve been wrestling as of late one might be able to put me down.” “Ha!” Mill gauffs, “Nothing on these guys, but you on a bad day could make mincemeat out of these punching bags. I got a few with instinct, but nothing you can’t handle.” “We’ll see, Mill...” he says, and Mill looks at him funny. “You okay, man? You don’t sound right,” he says, putting his arm on his shoulder as the two begin walking towards the gym’s ring as some of the rookies lift weights near the walls. “You know, as of late I’ve just been, well,” he stammers, trying to find the right words, “Well, I’ve been wondering if I’m getting too old for this. I’ve only been in this league a year and I’m starting to feel ragged...” “Bill, I’ve been watchin’ your matches as of late. You’re just lettin’ your losses get to ya. Now you know what’ll fix that?” “What?” “Beating the ever-loving crap out of these meatheads!” he says, pointing to the half-dozen or so guys leaning up against the wall, “Grif! Get your ass over here!” A young man in blue tights looks over at him and jogs over. He’s at least a good 6'4" and looks in his early 20's. “Yeah, whatdaya need?” “This, Grif, is William Hearford III,” says Mill, “And he’s what we call a ‘real wrestler’, and you are gonna learn something from him.” ***** The kid was tough, that’s for sure. What he lacked in brains and instinct he made up for in athleticism and power. It didn’t help that William was still aching from his match last night, but Hearford was still able to keep the kid off-balance in-close. He ducked under another punch and hit home with a vicious chop, knocking the kid back... “Hey, who is the old man in the ring?” asked Will, looking over at Alley. In the ring, the old man , struck another chop on the young jobber he was facing off against. “That’s Gary Loman. And show some respect; I don’t know another guy who is still wrestling who can remember seeing Thesz when he was in his prime. Hell, I remember going against this guy back in the day.” “Really? He’s that old?” “Yeah, he is. The guy just refuses to quit.” Loman moved in for a grapple, his frame muscled yet obviously straining to keep up with the younger man. He moves in for a grapple, but the young kid recovers quickly from the sharp blow and fires off an open-hand blow of his own, knocking him back... William staggers back from the force, but as Grif goes for a follow-up hook he ducks under the swing, allowing him to cinch a waistlock. He tries to quickly lift him up, but his weary and wounded body doesn’t follow immediately. “Damn it...” he mutters as Grif tries to throw back an elbow or two to dislodge Hearford, who is able to keep them away from his head. He tries to lift again for the German Suplex... but his arms are too tired after the combined beatings of this match and his match with Danny only yesterday. He puts him back on the ground and immediately receives and elbow to the head from Grif, followed by another, finally getting Hearford off his back. He quickly spins around and goes for a lariat... but Hearford instinctively ducks under and hits the mat, reaching back and pulling the young man down to the mat with a school-boy roll-up! ONE! TWO! TH-NO! He kicks out, and Mill immediately reams him out. “What the hell do you think you’re doing, Grif?! Wake the hell up and stop going through the damn motions!” “Christ, he nearly got him there.” “Yeah, he’s gotta bunch of tricks up his sleeve, but he never lets his age get to him. That’s why he’s still up there; he doesn’t care if he’s 21 or 41, he’s there to win.” The young man gets starts to get back up to his feet as the old man takes a knee for a second to catch his breath. The two rise up together and lock-up, with the young man quickly taking the advantage with his strength. Alley shakes his head as he watches. “Stupid mistake. Loman should have never tried getting back in close while he’s tired like that. He’s not a young guy like he used to be...” Prophetic as always, Alley is right as the young man quickly brings Loman into a raised knee, quickly doubling him over. He puts him in a head-scissors, putting his arms around Loman’s waist... Hearford tries to block what’s coming, but his muscles just won’t function; he’s too tired to do it anymore, he can’t pull himself through. Despite his attempts to block it, William can’t stop Grif from lifting him up onto his shoulders shakily. Mill immediately gets up onto the apron. “Christ, Grif, don’t-!” But before the jobber can process what Alley wants him to do, he haphazardly tosses Loman down on his side with incredible force... *CRACK* Hearford yells out in pain as his world turns inside out with pain from his side. Mills goes through the ring ropes and goes over to check on Hearford, turning him over... “I TOLD YOU NOT TO USE THE POWERBOMB, DAMN IT! YOU HAVEN’T LEARNED HOW TO DO IT RIGHT YOU FUCKING IDIOT!” Alley yells at the young kid as a few more trainers hop into the ring, as well as William. He looks down at the man, his face a mask of utter agony as his entire shoulder hangs lower and just out more than it should. He yells out again in pain as Alley and the trainers try to calm him down. “Get a damn ambulance!” the grizzled old trainer yells at one of his assistants, trying to move the shoulder back into place and eliciting a bone-chilling yell... “Jesus fucking Christ, Bill, does anything else hurt?” “My side...” Hearford says between another yell of pain. His body is almost shivering from the pain wracking him. “Christ, he might have broken ribs to boot...” says a worried Mills, getting back up and grabbing Grif around the neck. “YOU MORON!” he yells as he drags him out of the ring and into a corner, “Do you have any idea what you just did?” “I- I was just caught up in th-“ “I don’t fucking care what you were caught up in! Do you realize what you just did?...” Alley glares at the young man, fire in his eyes. “You just might have ended that man’s career, God damn it...”

Wow. Color me VERY surprised. Either he's insane or his campaign manager just went over the deep end. I mean, seriously, this constant flip-floppery to try and reach voters is reaching critical mass very quickly.

We call that sort of justification the "weapons of mass destruction loophole." Well, we haven't been definitively proved that WMDs weren't there. Now, being from Detroit, I call this one the "Colemen Young, this is YOUR CHILD" precedent. You've been proven wrong, you just never admit to it.