Justice

And if we don't find them, I'm sure there will be a lot of people saying "OMG, THEY WERE MOVED TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!" Considering that Kay has found the following: It looks like one of those is a bit more likely, JMA. And to channel Marney: How many countries disagreed with us about this maybe two years ago? None. Suddenly they don't have them? Does anyone see a problem with that?

I believe Morrison had to quit ( I received a PM from him saying so, actually) so I'd take him off the roster. Of Bowers, though, I have no idea.

Question: Does anyone actually remember when Kays came on T.V. and talked about the places he was searching? I mean, like the 200 square mile ammo dumps with hundreds upon hundreds of shells and rockets with his team? People are bitching about how we haven't found anything... well, the Iraqis have a tendancy not to mark this sort of thing (Because hey, it makes it a bit easier for people who capture the places to find these things), which means they have to test EVERY INDIVIDUAL ARTILLERY SHELL. Remember, these guys had one of the largest ground armies in the World. They had to supply them with ammo as well. But hey, when we eventually find them, it'll be hilarious to watch how many people are going to claim "OMG THEY PLANTED THEM!"

Yea THAT might happen. I'd give that the same odds of happening as I would give for cartman giving an intelligent response for once.

Thank God the UN finally got off their asses and realized if they agree to the US resolution they'd become even more illegitmate and powerless in World Affairs. Tyler: You know that France and Germany aren't sending troops in, right? I doubt our troops are going to get much more relief than maybe 10,000 troops from these guys. I lack any faith in "UN Assistance" to be anything other than two more layers of red tape to go through when we need something done in this operation. But if they actually come through for once, good for them.

If it were save % they could probably win a Vezina in the NHL . But anyways: Supreme Court to here California Case on the Constitutionality of the Pledge of Allegiance. Thoughts? Opinions?

Opening Promo Va'aiga speaks! - BOO-YAH! Singles Match The Boston Strangler v. Xero - Wow, does this really even need to be put up as a prediction? Xero, of course. Singles Match Thoth v. Jay Dawg - Thothage to get some heat back with a solid victory. Tag Team Title Match Sinquizition v. Justice and Rule - No prediction, but prepare for an ass-kicking of titanic proportions. Main Event The SWF World Heavyweight Championship Singles Match "The Superior One" Tom Flesher © v. Erek Taylor - Taamo. The bastard.

That's a real interesting question. On one hand you have a man who is about to leave office who is passing all sorts of legislation that may cause gridlock after his successor comes in while you have gridlock before the successor comes in. A very nice question, Jobber. I'd say that the lame duck should stop since he's no longer the representative of the people, but I suppose I could be convinced otherwise in some situations.

But it's still just putting words in their mouth. Even if it's approved words, it's words drafted up by someone's superior which got handed down and asked guys currently fighting for their life "Hey, we're sending this around. Can I put your name on it?" Bullshit. THEY AGREED TO IT. This was not them just signing this thing away, they all made sure to look over it carefully and say "Yes" or "No". Whether or not they wrote them means shit if they endorse that as their opinion. That's like saying petitions don't really represent their signees because it's not their opinion in their own written words. If they signed off on this, they approved, making it their own words even if they didn't write it themselves. Secondly, you act as though these guys were in a combat situation when they were asked this or that they were not able to actually look at what they were putting their name on or they weren't in the proper state of mind to actually approve of this thing. They all got a look at it, they weren't required to sign one, and some even wrote letters of their own. Please don't make it look as though they were just told to sign it and move on because that doesn't seem to be the case here. Bitch bitch bitch... There is no wrong in this, no matter how much you try to find it. What's the difference if it gets printed in the paper? Maybe the experiences are slightly different here and there but largely the same. If someone didn't have one of those experiences, he shouldn't have signed up and that's the soldier's fault for falsifying events, not the Army. Wow, so one guy might have been misinformed. OMG PROPAGANDA!&@#!*@#&*()!@#&!@*() Christ, the man himself says he even agreed with the thoughts in it, and hey it did get into a newspaper. Sorry if they put his name on it, but he says it didn't misrepresent him, so it didn't lie or deceive or mislead anyone about his opinion there. Have your doubts, but since all those questioned agree with the letter sent, but I think I trust our soldiers to be able to read a 5 Paragraph letter, understand the intent, and decide whether they can agree with it or not. But hey, maybe I'm overestimating their intelligence in that area.

Uh, yeah, I can't even quote it. And again, there's no falsifying in the document. How are printing the letters taking soundbites and things out of context when it's their actual opinions? On that first statement you quoted under mine, what exactly are you trying to say there? I'm slightly confused at this. Edit: I found a bit more complete passage of what you were trying to find, and again, that's not really propaganda-ish. Again, Propaganda is about deception and misleading people, and the opinions shown in the letters were still the correct ones. Either you dispute this or you have no case for your argument.

Where does it say that? It says they were given a form letter and signed it.

That doesn't matter as the soldiers whose names are on it looked over it carefully and approved of the sentiments portrayed. Whether they are exactly their own words or not doesn't matter if they saw the letter, thought it correctly gave their own feelings, and gave him permission to put their name on it. Propaganda would be taking their opinions and soundbites out of context to deliberately mislead the public from what they are really trying to say. That's much different than this because they all approved of it as an accurate description of their own feelings.

Your edit wasn't up at the time, but it really doesn't make a case for Propaganda anyways since they all believe that. It's not something being falsely manufactured by the Government or the US Army, so where is the Propaganda portion? All they tried to do is suggest that the US government sent those out to try and cover up low troop morale in Iraq. And you say the soldier is guilty of propaganda here? Secondly, what's your point on the "Other wars people had time to write letters"? Are you trying to suggest some there or is that just filler? Not meaning to offend you here, just wondering.

Pot, meet Kettle... And whose opinion do I hold on the highest of high? *Points at Tyler's sig.*

I really doubt it will. I don't see any reason to discard the Pledge since it isn't mandatory and it's really hard to find a specific religion that actually benefit over another from something as vague as "God". Jobber: In all reality, it doesn't even serve that purpose anymore so that's not a valid claim against it. Whatever it was put in place for doesn't matter because all that matters is what it is doing in the now. Otherwise it's just moot and has no business in the courts.

So wait, if all the soldiers read and approved of the letter that was sent in their name, does that mean this isn't OMG PROPAGANDA~!?

Considering he's made a far better case than Jobber did, he probably is right. But that's just my opinion...

I think it's pretty obvious that the site is more about being against the Left-wing than just communists. Indeed.

WC, check your PMs, I need to talk to you.

Honestly, the T.V. is holding those two back right now. Unify it with the Euro and stick them there. That's just my opinion on the subject and I think it'll make both the World and Euro divisons a LOT more competitive.

Apparently it was pretty close, but close only works in horseshoes and hand grenades. Anyways, here was my mock card. This assumed that: Landon Won Bowers Won Manson Won Liston Won Royal Won Just at random, accounting for an upset here or there. Now without further ado, here it it is. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SJL Wrath!!! Venue: Pepsi Center, Denver, Colorado! Due Date: Sunday, October 12th, 2003 Send To: Thoth Opening Promo: Manson Holy crap, all the veterans of the JL have held the damned World Title now! What does this for the brooding Manson? Well, he¡¦ll tell us in front of a massive hometown audience! #1 T.V. Title Contendership Match James Morrison vs. Daemon Well, James didn't quite get the win in the cage match, but he came damn close. But instead of facing Bowers again (And again and again and again¡K) he'll have to fight Daemon to get his shot! Match Description: Standard Match with DQs and Countouts in effect. Word Limit: 4000 Send To: Powerplay (I can mark low card stuff still ƒº) T.V. Title Match Brian Bowers vs. Craig McLennan Brian has defended the T.V. Title a lot lately and Commissioner Raynor intends for the T.V. Title to live up to its name! Craig surprised the world when he put forth a great effort on Crimson to beat Daemon. Well, we here in the SJL reward winners and what better way than with a Title shot? Match Description: Standard Match with DQs and Countouts in effect. Word Limit: 4500 Send To: Tod deKindes Tag Team Match Urban Decay 2.0 vs. Angels of Insanity Well, Dominic Korgath and Jimmy Liston have been looking for a true test of the newest incarnation of Urban Decay and on Wrath they are certainly gonna get one! Insane Luchadore was seperated from his long-awaited SJL World Title by Manson on Crimson, while Aecas lost out to newcomer Landon Maddix on the same show for another World Title Shot. Both men are likely to face off soon to decide who will get first shot at Manson, so how will that effect them tonight? United Urban Decay stands, and if they are divided the Angels of Insanity may fall to the newest force in the JL. Match Description: Standard Tag Match with DQs and Countouts in effect. And to quote Grand Slam: "USE TAG ROPES!" Word Limit: 5000 Send To: WrestlingDeacon And now for your Main Event... "Gone in 60 Seconds" Match for the European Title! Todd Royal vs. Landon Maddix vs. "Hollywood" Spike Jenkins Todd Royal put forth a Todd-like effort on Crimson against Dominic Korgath to keep his title, but he's getting thrown right back into the fire against two people this time! Landon Maddix edged out a victory against Aecas, allowing him to get another shot at Royal after losing to him at Countdown. Meanwhile, with his loss on Crimson to Jimmy Liston, Commissioner Raynor banned Spike Jenkins from any more World Title shots until he captures the European Title! Each man wants this title more than anything right now, but it won't be easy: Raynor's decided to put them in a Parking Lot Streetfight with a big twist! Match Description: All three men start in the Parking Garage across the street from the Pepsi Center. There is a gate blocking the main exit to the street. This particular lot is three stories tall (With each guy starting on a different level) and is chock full of cars because of tonight's show. The objective: find and get a stoplight red '02 Corvette out of the place. Problem is, there are three keys to winning, and each guy has only one! Car-Lock Key: This key unlocks the doors to the Vette. Ignition Key: This key starts the engine of the Corvette. Gate Key: This opens the gate that's blocking the exit to the garage The only real way to win is to extract the keys from the other two guys and use all three to get the Corvette to the street. There are only a few rules in the match 1) You have to unlock the gate; no crashing through it with the Vette. 2) You have to use the ignition key to start the Corvette; despite the name there is no hotwiring in this match. Anything other than that is completely legal. Now let's see some windshield-busting action, people! Word Limit: 7000 Send To: Thoth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Comments and critiques are very welcome.

No, I don't think so. England, France, and Germany would have literally killed off their young male populations if we hadn't tipped the sides like we did, and it probably would have lasted that much longer. No matter the outcome (Most likely with Germany still on the losing side), economic ruin would still be on the horizon because of the massive war debts. Simply by virtue of occurring WWI caused WWII.

I don't remember that. In which thread? Arg. I'll look for it and post it when I can find it, but I do remember Tom eventually convincing him by saying "Look, we attacked Germany because we have a vested interest in seeing places like Britain survive" or something like that. Say what? How do you figure? Not my words, his. He thought we shouldn't have gotten involved in WWI because of a boat and Kosovo should have just stayed a "Regional dispute" or something like that.

No, I think Dr. Tom made him concede that one (Eventually), though I could be wrong. But WWI was definitely one we should have NEVER EVER ENTERED. Same with Kosovo.

No no no... Rob Stone was against fighting wars as well. Don't we remember the famous thread where he said we had no business in Korea or the First Persian Gulf War?