Tawren

Grow the fuck up, I said **1/2. Quit flame-baiting me and quit acting like such an idiot.

Gee, you're funny. Despite the fact you have only flamebaited me for most of the thread and still haven't given it a reason for it being ***** best match ever (yes, ***** means PERFECT), you continue to post. Good job.

And I still don't understand the problem with the chops? theyre not stiff clotheslines... Grow the fuck up, you dolt. MY problem with the chops was how over-used they were, especially by Micheals: he sucks at them.

I'd have to say the match to rate it. Exact same match. Time. Spots. Just those 3 guys at the Budokan or something...whats your score? **1/2? Tawren often has star ratings that go against the grain for certain matches. It doesn't matter where they come from. He even gave the famous Liger/Ohtani New Japan match a pretty low score as compared to others which is one of the most untouchable bouts ever. Please don't insinuate that puro fans are byist. Yes, some are but please don't put everyone in the same boat. Do you mean that in a good or bad way? Also, I never said Ohtani/Liger was bad. I called it ***3/4, which is still pretty fucking good. I just said I didn't consider it an all-time classic. A good way, I guess. I just wanted to point out that you can have different ratings for matches no matter where they come from. Ah. Alright.

How is that disappointing?

I'd have to say the match to rate it. Exact same match. Time. Spots. Just those 3 guys at the Budokan or something...whats your score? **1/2? Tawren often has star ratings that go against the grain for certain matches. It doesn't matter where they come from. He even gave the famous Liger/Ohtani New Japan match a pretty low score as compared to others which is one of the most untouchable bouts ever. Please don't insinuate that puro fans are byist. Yes, some are but please don't put everyone in the same boat. Do you mean that in a good or bad way? Also, I never said Ohtani/Liger was bad. I called it ***3/4, which is still pretty fucking good. I just said I didn't consider it an all-time classic.

Free tickets to Backlash 2000~!

H--fucking-ray. This sounds rad.

HBK chops chops chops his way to a sloppy performance.

less than the number of clotheslines in a Misawa match Im sure.... Dude, I'm not even a Misawa fan. You want to try and make lame jokes about me being a puro elitist, say something like "not as many flips as a Dragon Kid match" or something. where does the word 'tawren' show up in my exchange with Andrew? You're making more stupid puro jokes, when earlier in the thread you brought up puro and attacked me for liking it while I was discussing the triple threat. Do you realize how many clotheslines get thrown in a Misawa etc. match? Yes. Yes I do. Japan loves their lariats.

less than the number of clotheslines in a Misawa match Im sure.... Dude, I'm not even a Misawa fan. You want to try and make lame jokes about me being a puro elitist, say something like "not as many flips as a Dragon Kid match" or something. where does the word 'tawren' show up in my exchange with Andrew? You're making more stupid puro jokes, when earlier in the thread you brought up puro and attacked me for liking it while I was discussing the triple threat.

less than the number of clotheslines in a Misawa match Im sure.... Dude, I'm not even a Misawa fan. You want to try and make lame jokes about me being a puro elitist, say something like "not as many flips as a Dragon Kid match" or something.

The fuck? Just a couple seconds ago you were being civil with me. What's going on? Its been explained repeatedly why the match couldnt be under ***. Thats pretty obvious... Your still holding onto **1/2. Did you watch the ppv? If so and with your continued attempts to explain your rating, its clear that you just need to bitch about something. Bitching for the sake of bitching really annoys me. If you cant dig that match then you should seriously find some other hobby/pastime. Nobody has explained why it was *****. I have explained several times why I considered it **1/2. I didn't like the match, I explained why, I have been personally attacked several times, I stick with my ratings. I have seen the match 3 times: live, replay, on tape this morning. I don't need a new hobby. I like wrestling just fine.

The fuck? Just a couple seconds ago you were being civil with me. What's going on?

I'd have to say the match to rate it. Exact same match. Time. Spots. Just those 3 guys at the Budokan or something...whats your score? **1/2? First, I'd question why they are doing crossfaces and pedigrees and announcer table suplexes. But let's assume that's normal everywhere else. (That was a joke) I'd give it the same rating. EDIT: I just noticed I put "say the match". I meant "see". I'm sure you knew that, but still: typo.

That's definitely an objective opinion. Let's rely on past performances by Michaels to judge this match, since you are UNBIASED and OBJECTIVE, right? I was unbiased and objective. Note how I didn't say Benoit was his usual godly self, because he wasn't? Yep. Did you even see the match? HBK sells like a pile of crap. It was a stiff suplex, which in its velocity could be only be performed by two men. Michaels and Helmsley literally THREW Benoit into the table, which put him out of commission in the fans' eyes. I've already covered how long it took to set up and etc. HHH was brawling with Benoit for the time being, while Michaels was recovering from the post shot/bladejob which happened a few minutes earlier. HBK had the most "wind" in him at that point, even though it was evident he hurt the most (he was quickly put out of commission AGAIN by HHH's pedigree and Benoit's suplex.) But they both just did the same move and HBK already had gone blade crazy (I don't remember if HHH was bleeding yet, but HBK had the bigger job), so you'd assume they are close enough to the same. The fans are trained to see a clean decision by a three count or tap-out submission: the crowd would've farted on "I Quit" being the finish. Tawren's a dumbass. Not really.

I'd have to say the match to rate it.

You're just a sad, jaded fan, aren't you? Whatever, I guess it had too much HHH in it, and the fact that it was viewed by a mainstream audience in a sold out arena rather than a shady convention center on a bootlegged video tape takes down it's quality... Wow, I'm being stereotyped more than Chief Alcoholic Eagle here. HHH being in a match has no problem with me. He jobbed clean. He is OK in the ring. Shady convention center, eh? Depends if it's on handheld or pro shot. Handhelds = credibility. If I see this on handheld, I might bump it up to *****. (JOKING) Bootlegs? As long as it is 1st or 2nd gen it is usually fine with me. So, care to present an actual argument or just take shots at me? Thanks for taking the jests in good gesture. Well, let's see your arguments? They didn't sell? I don't see how you can say that, they had to since they 1 guy had to be eliminated for each guy to have a segment with each other. The blade jobs did make sense. Shawn hit head first into the steel post and did a fabulous mid air blade job. I think HHH got hit into the stairs, but I honestly don't remember at the moment. Your criticizing an innovative and creative spot in HHH physically stopping HBK's hand from tapping. I don't even remember the last time someone verbally submitted in WWE, and you could say Benoit's arm was muffling Shawn's mouth in the crossface, so that wasn't an option. The table spot wasn't contrived, it made sense. HBK was dealing with the devil. They both realised they could work together to elminate Benoit and fight amongst themselves, thats why they gave each other that look before suplexing him. It made it all the more dramatic when Benoit broke up the pedigree pinfall at the last second. The sharpshooter was great, and dramatically built to. HHH struggling against having it put on just adds realism and made it all the better when Benoit put it on. I don't see how you could be down on the announcing, JR and even King was ON. They put over everyone huge and gave the match a big match feel. So there's your argument. I got to say anyone who thinks it was less than **** is just jaded and looking for things to complain about. Selling was bad on all three's parts, but there was no real work on any body part so I won't go in depth on it for specific cases. I really don't like the style of "german suplex, HBK is down, Benoit vs HHH, HBK's back just in time and is conveniently perfectly fine now". Camera never showed HBK hit the post, I was just under the impression he went chest into turnbuckle. Still, it was a small cut at first then dramatically bigger later, which I hate, plus I maintain he never was hit hard enough to bleed. Pretty much same with HHH. Table spot was horribly contrived. Lets both get rid of the monitors...now stand there...wait, back on knees...ok HBK is here...ope, gotta set it up...come on man, hurry up...OK here we go...OK...suplex through the table. Con-trived. I'm not jaded...I'm not biased...I'm objective. I hated it.

You're just a sad, jaded fan, aren't you? Whatever, I guess it had too much HHH in it, and the fact that it was viewed by a mainstream audience in a sold out arena rather than a shady convention center on a bootlegged video tape takes down it's quality... ROTFL . . . thank you! My sentiments exactly. Some people shit on the product simply because it's WWE, or because HHH is in it, or because it didn't come from Japan or the local national guard armory. I can agree with anyone who rated it four stars or higher (maybe even 3.5 stars, because it IS a subjective opinion to some degree) But 2.5 stars??? Can anybody explain WHY it's good, or are we just going to take shots at the guy who explained why he didn't like it? Seriously.

You're just a sad, jaded fan, aren't you? Whatever, I guess it had too much HHH in it, and the fact that it was viewed by a mainstream audience in a sold out arena rather than a shady convention center on a bootlegged video tape takes down it's quality... Wow, I'm being stereotyped more than Chief Alcoholic Eagle here. HHH being in a match has no problem with me. He jobbed clean. He is OK in the ring. Shady convention center, eh? Depends if it's on handheld or pro shot. Handhelds = credibility. If I see this on handheld, I might bump it up to *****. (JOKING) Bootlegs? As long as it is 1st or 2nd gen it is usually fine with me. So, care to present an actual argument or just take shots at me?

Why? Because hes successful? I always read his reviews...Keith and Dames are my must-reads. Granted, SK is quite the dork but his reviews are always a good read. Yeah, I hate him because he is successful. He's a dumbass because he called that *****, it clearly wasn't. It was disjointed, featured shitty selling by HBK and HHH, bladejobs by HHH and HBK when neither had been hit in the face, little to no build to the finish, told no story, and (while not very important) had horrible commentary. Everyone sold perfectly? Nope. HBK had his traditional no-selling fun, jumping all over after being hit with big moves, there were chops galore by HBK and Benoit in place of actual transitions, and of course, HHH and HBK were bleeding like hell, which was impressive but for no reason, as neither was hit in the head. There were some pretty cool spots, but they were contrived as hell. The double suplex through the table was so contrived...why didn't HHH do it himself? Why was HHH hurt more, as HBK bounded into the ring to point at HHH? When Benoit had HBK in the crossface and HBK went to tap out but HHH grabbed his arm, why didn't HBK submit verbally? He wanted to, obviously. The superkick out of the sharpshooter was poorly done and took too long to set up. **1/2

Keith's a dumbass.

Bullshit. You contribute ever so much. Care to explain why it's bullshit?

What the fuck are you talking about? That match was GREAT - being that it was the Main Event, it made the show almost that, too. How was it great? It was the Royal Rumble HHH/HBK match, with both guys bleeding although I can't recall either getting hit in the head, add in Benoit kicking their asses for a few minutes, then the rad ending. **1/2 might be a little high.

You dumbass, the Conan appearance has nothing to do with people liking TBS. People like him because he goes out there and _tries_, he gives an effort, and while he isn't all that good, I and many others respect him because he is trying to put on a good show, and yeah, once in a while he has a fun match.