Promoter

To hype his match with Andre... nothing else <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know if it's the same Snake Pit, but there is one incident where Jake DDT'ed Hogan on the segment and the crowd did a babyface pop. The taping never made it onto tv. All I remember about the timeframe is around the fall to Mania bracket. It said that along with babyface heat against Savage is what help Vince decide to turn him with HTM.

I wonder if this meeting will be about stripping Cena of the title and making the EC match for the held up title? Then again, Angle is not rumoured to be in that match which would make absolutely no sene which is right up there alley.

If you take into account how fans are now these days it would seem that in 1995 at Mania HBK would have been the champion and rightfully so. He was the most over in terms of babyface heat. Sometimes back then they did not hit while the iron was hot and it hurt them. The same with Bret Hart's first reign that was cut too short. I agree there is that lack of seeing stars rise to the top, but that's hollywood and sports entertainment writing. When you consider someone like Austin took 8 years to get a title compared to Cena(or worse Lesnar within months) it is troubling. That's what happens when you got Vince basically running the industry in a monopoly.

So, Edge makes commments about steroids to another athlete on the ppv? The same guy who admitted to taking roids on OTR? Yeah, and some thought Vince wouldn't dear use this kind of stuff to make a storyline

I don't like having transition champions for the sake of transitional champions. Sometimes patience is needed. They did not do this with guys like Bret Hart and HBK back in the day and it hurt them. An example would be Yokozuna. He didn't do that much more business than Bret as champion, but they were hoping Lex Luger would become the next Hogan and it certainly didn't happen. Bret Hart was still the future champion regardless. They just needed to be more patient with the guy in the champion role. The same with HBK in 1996. They switched the title to Sid and business didn't get any bigger with him carrying the strap. HBK was still the top guy arguably. However, if they had patience and worked with HBK's character and tuned it like the DX days he would have done alright. The title had to go back to HBK anyways since he was the future champion. Cena wasn't given the title because they wanted him to get over. He was over first. The same with Bret and HBK. They had a following before the belts were put on them. It's how they were treated as champion and programmed was the problem. They don't become the same characters because Vince likes to make them corporate friendly. The Rock and Austin are the only two guys who broke this tradition and the wwe probably let them do it because at the time they were going for broke anyways because wcw had them down for the count. As Vince said in a RAW mag, back then he was more kamikaze because he had nothing else to lose with wcw killing them in ratings. Now they have gone back to being conservative again. As for Orton, he did not really get a following as Cena did. He started to get cheers for going toe to toe with Foley and within 2-3 months they put the belt on the guy with no build.

I agree, but we see how stubborn they are. What I'm afraid of is "hood Vince" siding with Cena which will kill him dead. It seems Vince wants to latch onto Cena's familiarity with hip hop with that promo last night(I didn't even watch Series). Even back in the day Vince wanted to be seen as hip with his horrible songs on the wrestling albums. Where's Jericho when you need to him to show that footage

This might be a little off topic, but on 24/7 this month a theme is wrestling's biggest shockers. Of course, the big two are Hogan's heel turn and the Montreal screwjob in terms of the big two ppv shows for this month(it also has the birth of ECW). However, what I found interesting was the RAW episodes with HBK celebrating his title win and him kissing Bret's ass. Even Lawler makes a comment about it. Then on the RAW after that with Bret in Germany the guy really is "smarting". Michael Cole who does the introductions even stated Bret was "smarting" over his loss to HBK. Now, I always believed this even back then, but Bret really did seem like he hated the fact he had to job to HBK. He stated he felt betrayed anytime he lost the belt especially in this situation. I just find it funny that HBK tried to put over Bret as a true champion, yet Bret was downgrading how HBK won and how he felt HBK didn't deserve the title. Bret even stated he was greedy for respect and not money and was a reason why he wouldn't jump. When he came back all Bret did was state how Austin was the #1 wrestler in the world. I just thought I would throw this out there as perhaps Bret kind of started this whole pissing contest. Maybe HBK felt that since Bret kept putting him down as champion he wouldn't do the job back to Bret which started the whole problem to begin with. I even remember Bret taking potshots at HBK in wwf mag with his son Blade in 1996 and also in the Calgary columns about his stripper image ruining the wwf. I just felt this had to be said because this part of their rivalry is never brought up. I think this had to play a part with HBK's refusal to job to Bret at Mania 13 and also his comment about not doing the same for Bret around Survivor Series which made Bret really against jobbing to the guy. HBK has stated in his book that Bret wasn't a great wrestler, but a good wrestler. It's contradicting all of his ass kissing on Bret for his post Mania interview and yes I know there is a line of kayfabe on the show in terms of that, but he made it an issue to give props to Bret. Vince wanted to go onto storyline with Lawler and Diesel feuds, yet HBK brought the topic back to Bret's greatness.

Cena lost the belt? Okay, with that rumoured main event how can things go down for Mania? If Angle doesn't win the strap on a RAW or something it doesn't really make sense for Cena to drop the title at NYR imo. Who would he lose the title to? HBK maybe if they want him to carry the strap into Mania in celebration of the 10 year anniversary of the "#1 match" in Mania history. HHH winning the belt and heading into Mania is PLAYED OUT. That won't help anything. The other guys don't deserve to wear the damn belt at this stage. Cena has to retain pissing off even more people. Cena will be heel soon enough I think. The only thing stopping them from turning him heel is merchandise sales imo.

So last night's crowd was split. With the way Cena's getting booed for fans wanting to see him lose the strap I think he's getting a better reaction than JBL did for his long title reign. Let's also remember Cena is actualy perhaps the longest reigning babyface champion since Diesel. He's lasted some time without backlash. What if they went with Hogan/Cena instead of Cena/HHH for Mania where it was Hogan's last match ever *I know* and Cena went in as heel champion? The problem is pehraps the movie Cena has coming out next year and the wwe not wanting to turn him heel. I actually think he'll get the Rock treatment of 2003 where the fans started backing him anyways for not being so stale.

See, this is a big problem I had with Cena. The fact that he was a jerk in a funny way was what got him over. When they turned him face based on his crowd reactions, he began to lose that dickish edge he had and, for me anyway, that which made me interested in him. He's a forced face. They did that with Rock too to an extent, but I think Rock is just more talented overall hence why I still enjoyed him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is why I say taking the belt off Cena because the fans are booing is not the answer. I really think the fans are booing Cena because he is NOT the same Cena they were cheering for in the first place. The fans want the old Cena back. This happend with HBK and Diesel's reign. Once the company took the belt off them and gave them their attitude back the fans started to cheer them again. It wasn't that the fans hated their reign, but it was that they were no longer the same characters with the strap the fans wanted to see(well Diesel had more problems such as crappy competition such as King Mabel, but Cena right now has friggin Kurt Angle who IS more entertaining at the moment). The wwe just has to let Cena do what brought him to the dance and maybe he'll help turn around the fans booing him.

I think the belt is staying on Cena for the reasons above. If Angle was on smackdown I would be more willing to think he would become champion. Cena is still the top face even though he is currently getting booed. It happens, but I don't think Angle would go down well as a face. Fans are cheering him because he's doing great heel work, but what would that mean for the main event of Mania? HHH vs. Angle is not a strong draw as I think Cena/HHH will be. Yeah, some fans are backing Triple H now, but once he starts poking his nose in the title scene again people will start hating him again. He will also take Angle's spot as the top heel. If Cena drops the belt now and turns heel, by Royal Rumble fans will have him as the top face again anyways. I really can't see long term where they would go with Angle as champ unless they went the Michaels scenario for the 10 year anniversary of HBK winning his first wwf title for Mania, but they already done the rematches too quick with those two. Angle/HHH will be a train wreck my gut tells me as a Mania main event because of their dynamic at Mania. Angle would not be that strong a face unless they build him up to be the top face in the company, but he is doing quite fine as he is.

Well, if Vince was serious about this the first time when he could have gone to jail for a long time he wouldn't be put in such a tough spot. This is why I think people have a right to be cynical with this announcement. Just last year he was not taking this steroid thing seriously in public interviews. He is in a lose-lose situation, but what took so long? Remember Piper saying he didn't know how long he had to live on HBO with Vince Mcmahon? Soon, right after he was fired and they didn't address the problem.

I never believed that steroids in wrestling wasn't cheating either. As Jericho said in an interview last night on SportRadio in Toronto, pro wrestling is the strangest business in the world where it's half real and half fake. When the wrestlers start juicing it helps give them an upperhand with how they are pushed. I could be really off here, but I always felt that Triple H returned in 2002 so huge because he knew Hogan was returning as well as being home healing his injury. Dynamite Kid for all his talent used roids like crazy to remain competitive with the likes of guys who were bigger than him. Vince using that line about steroids in wrestling isn't cheating isn't true. There is no way Ric Flair would have become such a legend if he was mostly in Vince's company for his career. It's not really about believing the website, but making a spectacle about this new drug testing policy. They are notorious for turning everything into a spectacle.

Okay, this may seem wrong to say, but suppose this whole thing is a work? WWE.COM having this on their website for people to watch and Eugene all of a sudden collapsing on tour seems kind of right up their alley to exploit a situation they know people are talking about. Just something to think about.

Just to comment on 1992 being a financial disappointment. I thought 1994 was even worse in terms of finances? I think it had to do with all the PR problems from Superstar and Bruno comments to the sexual escapades that were going on at Titan Towers that turned people off in those years. Not to mention the horrible storylines. This policy could help, but I think it will go the path of the other policy they put together during the dark days. It will slowly be gone. It's funny how Vince would brag about not needing testing since in pro wrestling it's not cheating to use steroids on a national sports show in Canada during the whole baseball disaster. The same with HHH proclaiming that steroids weren't bad on ESPN. All of this during the government sessions with MLB. I think what also needs to change is the damn schedule. These guys are simply putting their bodies on the line way too much. Of course they won't cut back for monetary reasons.

Someone stated here Cena should just do the hip hop "Hate Me Now" angle where fans turn on people simply because they made it to the top and are successful. Don't turn him corporate, but just let him shove his success in people's face for heel heat. This is what's actually happening with Cena. Hogan had this type of hate too in 1990-1 after getting stale and doing the same damn crap over and over. Cena also didn't exactly go through the ringer like an Eddie or Benoit to get the top title. If they do Hogan vs. Cena with Cena heel proclaiming he is the next Hogan I think the match will sell tickets and ppv buys. As for HHH's sympathy from fans I think the fans are respecting him more now because he's probably the last left of guys who went through the ringer to get to the top. The newer guys are just being handed belts so quickly like Orton. It also has to do with HHH listening to the audience for once by pulling back on hogging the belt and main event scene.

Thanks for reminding me why I stick with this stuff. It won't sink in until I watch raw tonight. Eddie Guerrero R.I.P.!!!! What more can I say that hasn't been said on the net already?

I just want to ask a simple question because in a debate elsewhere a person made a point that we all know it's scripted and that winning and losing doesn't impact the drawing power of a wrestler. I completely disagreed because of the numerous botches I've seen in the many years I've watched wrestling. I think the booking is very important and is even pyschological in terms of how the masses see wrestlers value. The argument came up because the person thought Austin should job to Coach even clean and it wouldn't have a problem with him drawing. That there shouldn't be any politics because it's not needed. All I got to say is Hogan is the legend he is because he knows how to handle and protect his legacy properly as one example why I think how people are booked is important.

Well, he was the most sought after guy in the Radicalz when he came over, so point well taken that they won't treat him like Christian. Although, when Jericho came over in 1999 he was sought after too, but he never was given a decent run with the title like Benoit was just last year.

Maybe the Canadian boys are in cahoots by planning to all leave and go to TNA. Another Radicalz type exodus. Damn, I never did get to see Taker against Benoit. I wanted to see Taker try to outwrestle Benoit with his lame wwe MMA style.

Da Maintenance Man, good post man. I think that really hits the nail on the head for my other thread. I never got to see that script thing though. I thought sometime last year the wwe was letting the wrestlers be more lose and less robotic following word for word? I clearly remember the rumour that they told Mordecai not to wrestle and just punch and kick.

Since when did the net fans want 80 million run-ins a show, and Non-Wrestler D-List celebrities winning World Titles? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You just made my point. People were complaining about Hogan and the older stars not giving guys like Goldberg and Jericho a chance to run main event programs and they couldn't care less. They kept on doing run-ins long after people started complaining and throwing garbage in the ring because they were winning the ratings war. When Russo finally went to wcw and initially tried to do what the net was asking it was too late. He tried to do the millionaires against the the youngbloods and whatnot. Eventually, Russo just didn't give a damn and put the horse at back and shot it(sorry Trips).

True, but you could understand WHY they did the gang wars stuff. It was to counter the nWo boom on nitro. You could see they were at least trying to connect with what fans wanted although they did do a lot of throwing crap at the wall and see what stuck as well. However, when they got the formula 1998 was beautiful until they turned gears again in 1999. I'm glad the Goddwinns were brought up because it will prove how the wwe would listen to what fans were complaining about. I think it was Scoops who railed on Vince Mcmahon for always starting out RAW with a Goddwins match and said it was a no brainer why fans would tune into nitro. Nitro always started off their show with a star studded opening promo which was new at the time. A couple of weeks later we never saw a Goddwins match open up raw and we got LOD along with HBK and Austin doing an opening promo and the first segment rating went up. They never looked back. It's just so funny for me watching things because I seen how huge wrestling was and how it went down and how it rose back to the top. If I could see it, why can't the people who run can't. The net is not the enemy, but I understand them trying to discredit it to prevent fans buying into the wwe sucks campaign poisoning other fans enjoyment. I think that is the real reason they hate on the net in the public.

I never thought of the outsmarting thing and it does ring true. I think that's probably why JR pinning HHH didn't make Triple H look stupid. It was Batista putting one over on HHH. I mean, no matter how you slice it JR beating HHH is a joke and the fans know it. With Austin and Coach though? If the big superstar legend Austin makes his big comeback on a Tuesday ppv and then jobs to a junior anouncer don't you think it might pyschologically make fans think the guy's career is going down the toilet? I mean, I don't know it's kind of inexcusable for a commentator beating a wrestler anyhow including JR over HHH. It's kind of like Russo and Mcmahon winning the belt. It just kind of made the belt seem like anyone can be given the belt instead of only the absolute top guys getting that honour. All the titles have sunk since 1999 anyways.

So, how does Triple H do it?