Promoter

Yeah, that would be awesome!! However, I think this storyline is only including WWE HOF'ers and not guys Vince is keeping out of the HOF

Jericho is gold in this storyline. Good to see Steamboat tonight and I'm still convinced this storyline is better having a real legend defending the legends against Jericho at Mania with Rourke in the corner of the legend/s. The back-story is stronger with tonight as an example.

Okay, I saw that special edition WM III DVD, but was afraid to pick it up. Is it worth it? The reason I was hesitant was that I still have the original video tape that was released with the original music such as Steamboat's intro. I also have the superstars episodes that lead up to the event(snme too). I just don't know what could be on there besides having the event in DVD quality. I'm for more matches myself. SNME's best matches is an instant classic although again I have most of the shows on videotape with the original intros. What I say is missing is the actual show intros.

I may be the only guy who actually liked WrestleMania 2's set up, so I would like to see this. I always wondered if they could pull off a show on three different continents with this set up too. That would make Mania look really world-class and big.

Gotta admit those devices are pretty clever and I agree with them. The rumors do create problems. For example would be Hogan being at Mania vs. Cena or Jericho. Now, that rumor is out there and of course word would spread to fans who aren't on the net. Hogan doesn't show up and wwe looks like they failed to deliver or something was up with Hogan or Vince. In actuality, Hogan wasn't even planned for the event. On the flip side of that they leak a rumor of Hogan vs. Jericho, but it ends up Hogan/Cena surprising fans. *Not saying any of this example is in relation to reality*

Worldwide phenomenon

There are rumors about the winners of the two title matches would meet in a unification match. Would that help the repeat nature of the match for some? It gives the option of doing Cena/HHH, Edge/HHH, Edge/Orton, Cena/Orton

I completely agree about stretching kayfabe, but not breaking it for the reasons stated. Now, last night is an example of a way the wwe can still work knowledgeable fans. Everyone had Orton/Cena and Edge/HHH penned for Mania, but they shocked everyone last night with what went down. Now the explanation needs to be done properly and kayfabe wise they could do it.

What were the pros and cons of the kayfabe era? The era of wrestling before Vince Mcmahon told the courts that pro wrestling was more performance than competition? Some may say it can be broken down into two. I believe it was just before WrestleMania V. Also, in terms of it being smashed on television I would say it may have been Survivor Series '97. What are/were the pros and cons of kayfabe(I mean the real kayfabe heavy era*oxymoron yes )

That last post was on the money man

Jonathan Coachman "In the last 18 months when I was at MSG and asked (by WWE) to do a few things a legit sports guy wouldn't do, I questioned that a little bit. But I also found quite a bit of our (WWE) audience -- 95 percent -- doesn't watch real sports. I never received any backlash whenever I did something a little off-color." http://www.sescoops.com/wwe/Jonathan_Coach...rn_To_WWE.shtml Is he correct? I think he's way off-base and if the wwe is in this mindset it may explain a lot(although them hiring guys like Lesnar, Angle, Benjamin seems to say otherwise). They do also use a lot of guys from sports such as Mayweather.

What I find lacking with today's product is the actual emphasis of pro wrestling being an exhibition. The attention to detail because of the attempt to make the viewer believe in what they are watching. Also, coherent storytelling that applies to real life. The post-kayfabe era(more so 1999) direction of using different elements of other tv shows and so on to make an action adventure has opened the envelope for creative license, but I think this has caused less emotional attachment and involvement by the fans. That is why certain things such as Austin turning heel did not have the same effect as Hulk Hogan turning heel. I also think that is another reason why the wwf did not do as much business a year later after breaking kayfabe in courts. I don't think it's a coincidence the business had a steady decline. This is not to say that all fans thought the show was real, but there was significant doubt of it being completely a work to the untrained eye. Another example is Steve Austin's character. I think one big reason he got so over was that fans were more likely to believe in the character in 1996-97 than in 2000 as the same with evil Vince. The nWo angle also worked to some degree because of how it actually felt like the new generation wwf guys Diesel(Nash) and Razor Ramone(Hall) entered wcw. There was less of a "program" feel to it than an exhibition feel. I think that is what has hurt guys like John Cena and HHH(who are being booked like Hogan and Flair in the 80's somewhat). It has also became more hip as a fan to judge the show differently than in the past. It was more cool to be a critic than an actual fan and most of those fans have seemed to faded away or at least not caring about the current product. I say the differences can be seen in what many consider to be the greatest Mania of this era WM X-7 compared to what many would say the greatest of the kayfabe era(actually greatest of all-time imo). One show seems a lot more hollywood and slick and the other is more like a supercard for a pro wrestling sporting type event. I actually believe WM 3 has the crowd's attention and emotion much more than the WM X-7 crowd for the duration of the show. Look at the pops Piper got when he put on the sleeper hold on Adonis(today that would not be the same), the pin dropping for upset wins for HTM and HF/Danny Davis, eruption for Steamboat winning, and of course Hogan slamming Andre. Now, the fan interaction and attachment at Mania X-7 is fewer and far between with perhaps ONLY Austin/Rock getting anything like the reaction as those mentioned for the spots in the matches for WM 3. This is not to say the fans weren't into the other matches at WM X-7, but clearly to me they weren't AS into it for the simple reason that the other match outcomes and how things are ranked nowadays fans don't care for the other matches. UT/HHH was the only other match that came close and that was for the very reason people thought HHH could beat UT due to his reign as champ the year prior. The conditioning of putting on a good show has hurt the actual investment of seeing who wins and loses imo.

The big business crashed really quick once fans realized that Booker T. and Diamond Dallas Page were as big as it was going to get. I don't even want to think about how sick the numbers would have been if they had done this properly and stretched this thing out to WM18 with a show that featured both Steve Austin vs. Bill Goldberg and The Rock vs. Hollywood Hogan. Rock/Hogan was big enough on its own, but within the context of WWF vs. WCW, it would have been even more. I don't think we can even fathom the business they would have done if they had eaten Goldberg's contract and properly built to Austin vs. Goldberg at WM18. It would have been out of this world. Instead we got 3 months of Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, which meant jackshit because these guys were both WWF guys. They were all good matches, but they were in a ridiculous context with Austin, a WWF guy for almost 6 years at this point, having aligned with WCW/ECW and their historical significance in 2009 in zilch. No one talks about that epic Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall WM18 match either. I completely agree with you. What some people are not realizing is that MANY fans thought the Invasion WOULD have Hogan and company. Why? Because the nWo Takeover was built that way in 1996. Hogan was nowhere to be found when nitro was going on with Hall and Nash. You see the parrallels? Booker T(wcw champion) and DDP and Buff Bagwell could have been seen as seeds being planted and BANG at Invasion we see Hogan, Hall, Nash, Sting, Goldberg in an angle like Hogan turning heel joining the nWo, but it would be the aforementioned joining up with Booker and company against the wwf. Remember The Rock was also up in the air to some fans too. Once fans realized Booker T and company were as big as wcw's side was going to get the masses tuned out. This was something fans wanted to see ever since the monday night wars began. Seriously, the fans thought we would get the REAL Invasion and got disappointed. It was bad enough Austin had turned heel at WrestleMania and Rock took off to film a movie leaving fans with nothing really to cheer about. That whole thing was completely BOTCHED and they have paid for it big time. Not even the brand split got things back on track. They pissed off ecw, wcw, wwf fans all in one punch.

Yeah, Jericho gets to make a ton of money facing off with a hot celebrity coming off an Oscar nominated movie and will probably only lose thanks to Ric Flair interference. All this while being all over the mainstream media for the next few months. I am sure he is weeping as we speak. I bet he would rather fight William Regal for the IC title. I am sure Bam Bam Bigelow felt the same way after being LT's bitch back in 1995. What happened to that push he was promised? Are you seriosuly comparing the two? Jericho is a much bigger name than Bigelow was at the time. Rourke is way more mainstream right now than a retired LT was. Wrestlemania is way bigger and more popular than it was in 1995. The payout in 2009 is guaranteed to be way bigger than it was in 1995. For what its worth WrestleMania got some serious coverage for its press conference and the event itself. I saw it everywhere from ESPN to Inside Edition to Entertainment Tonight to blurbs in Sport Illustrated. WrestleMania was perhaps the only mainstream thing the wrestling world had in 1995 worth a damn with the exception of the wwf name. Even Bischoff had to say Mania was still the biggest show in wrestling when wcw was #1 in ratings. That is true, but it is nowhere near the level it is now. They got a lot of ESPN coverage and other sports outlets but not much mainstream media shows that will cover this. Yeah, WrestleMania is on a next level nowadays. However, something about those first 6 years still seem bigger to me. The closed circuit frenzy, sports bars, ppv shows being covered on legit sports shows(yeah we use to have it on front page newspapers and on sports news). IMO, there use to be more mass appeal to Mania. It could just be rose colored glasses though, but I kept those newspapers and recorded those shows covering it. Mania is bigger in some ways today, but is lesser on some other levels.

Yeah, Jericho gets to make a ton of money facing off with a hot celebrity coming off an Oscar nominated movie and will probably only lose thanks to Ric Flair interference. All this while being all over the mainstream media for the next few months. I am sure he is weeping as we speak. I bet he would rather fight William Regal for the IC title. I am sure Bam Bam Bigelow felt the same way after being LT's bitch back in 1995. What happened to that push he was promised? Are you seriosuly comparing the two? Jericho is a much bigger name than Bigelow was at the time. Rourke is way more mainstream right now than a retired LT was. Wrestlemania is way bigger and more popular than it was in 1995. The payout in 2009 is guaranteed to be way bigger than it was in 1995. For what its worth WrestleMania got some serious coverage for its press conference and the event itself. I saw it everywhere from ESPN to Inside Edition to Entertainment Tonight to blurbs in Sport Illustrated. WrestleMania was perhaps the only mainstream thing the wrestling world had in 1995 worth a damn with the exception of the wwf name. Even Bischoff had to say Mania was still the biggest show in wrestling when wcw was #1 in ratings.

Yeah, Jericho gets to make a ton of money facing off with a hot celebrity coming off an Oscar nominated movie and will probably only lose thanks to Ric Flair interference. All this while being all over the mainstream media for the next few months. I am sure he is weeping as we speak. I bet he would rather fight William Regal for the IC title. Big Show? He's really getting far from all the media exposure last year. He's an afterthought for this year's Mania. I did like his match and storyline last year though which made Mania feel big.

A subtle jab toward the old attitude era? Adjusting what was done in the attitude era? I know I'm being silly, but that's what came to my mind for some reason.

I like the idea of Rourke being an inspiration and cornerman of a legend returning to shut Jericho up. This I can see having some appeal with it being the 25th anniversary. I hope it wasn't just an off remark. Flair isn't bad, but I just don't want his retirement match last year to be cheapened.

I would MARK the hell out if this leads to Jericho vs. that other Randy guy

Hey, if someone can not execute a full nelson properly, Monsoon should point out that it's all fucked up. I find it surprising that he gets criticism for this too. This is one of the reasons why I liked Monsoon. He would treat it like a legitimate sport, and if a move wasn't executed properly or somebody didn't hook a leg on a pinfall attempt or tried to win a match with a chinlock, he would call them out on it. Yeah, I liked Monsoon for that too. Sometimes Stevie Wonder could see the mistake, so Monsoon paying attention and mentioning it wasn't insulting.

Randy Savage use to also say "Greatest WWF Champion Past, Present, and Future" and it seems like his reign is erased from any tense. At least they got him on the IC title history dvd. He could have got Bruno'ed as Sammartino did on the A&E special about a decade ago. They skipped a whole decade

Why would they WANT to see Rourke in a match from a storyline and reality perspective? Rourke's movie was not a blockbuster like a Spider Man movie or something. I just think having Rourke in an underground movie that got critical acclaim doesn't quite equal blockbuster ppv buy-rates and tv ratings. It made complete sense last year doing it with Mayweather. Also, having a "good match" doesn't look good on your last world champion with an actor approaching 60 years old. I know people may think it won't have an impact, but I really believe Jericho's drawing power and appeal to the masses got killed during his Undisputed Champion reign especially with that horrible storyline with Stephanie heading into Mania. I don't think this will help Jericho that much to be honest and may re-enforce in some of the casual fans eyes that he is not really a main eventer(people I talk to always say he's really IC title level if the wwe was at its best).

I'm sure the once mighty wcw also thought they were invincible to the channel surfing habits of pro wrestling fans too. They learned the hard way Testing the patience of your audience is not a good idea especially when half the audience has stopped watching from earlier in the decade. I get what your saying though, but today's audience is not as loyal as in the past.

Remember what company we're talking about here. Point well taken. LT vs. Bam Bam did GREAT for his career However, this scenario can actually be more in the David Arquette realm. THAT did wonders for business too.

I don't know about this the more I look at it. $50 to see Mickey Rourke in a match with Jericho? The paradox thing is true though and not over-thinking. Okay, taking the belief that fans all know it's worked. Let's just NOT look at this as knowledgeable wrestling fans here in building heat and all that other stuff. Let's keep it simple. Is the masses really going to plunk down money in buy-rate buckets for this? I don't think so. Rourke is not exactly Will Smith at the moment in terms of being consistently hot at the box office in blockbusters. I could see them thinking that for Will Smith in that he may transfer the box office appeal to ppv buys and selling out Mania in Texas. However, it's Rourke and no the general public won't know he's been trained. They will just see him as an actor who just resurrected himself in a movie doing a match. Mayweather as been stated was a completely different scenario. Yeah, bringing up Zeus only points to how ridiculous this whole thing can become. The angle BOMBED back in 1989. It was the planned WrestleMania VI main event and Vince quickly scrapped it for a side ppv where Hogan met Zeus in a tag situation in a cage match. Vince realized it probably just a one shot deal in retrospect to push his movie. If they do have to do this at least make it a rehash of WM 1 to tie it into the 25th anniversary. *I hope Mania turns out more entertaining than this crappy SuperBowl which is ending and has me here typing about Mania* edit:the ending had a twist