Promoter

I've read that Vince Mcmahon wants to revamp the tv landscape since he is moving to USA. I've also seen Heat and Velocity becoming syndicated shows like superstars and wrestling challenge were. I guess that's better than the usual recap junk of Bottom Line and Afterburn. Recap shows aren't bad, but they replay every damn thing on the main shows anyways. Okay, if things go down in the way that some believe it means there is actually less air time. I think this SHOULD help make the shows tighter in terms of writing, booking, and utlizing talent without over-saturation. There are some good armchair bookers here. What would you guys do to help bring ratings back up. If Vince goes like this I think it will make people watch the majority of shows unlike now with the crappy ratings for the weekend shows. Fall 2005 Monday night (USA) RAW-2 Hours Friday night (UPN) Smackdown- 2 Hours Sunday Night(USA) WWE Tonight-1 Hour *this should be a hybrid show such as Confidential/Excess mixed mag show* It should be dual brand to help promote ppv shows as well Syndication WWE HEAT-1 Hour Women's show/indy guys*up and comers/ house show matches for locals WWE Velocity-1 Hour Cruiserweight show/indy guys*up and comers/house show matches for locals Every once in a while: Saturday Night Main Event *type of clash of champions with champions from both brands defending their titles on the show. Set up hype for interbrand matches down the line. This is what I would like to see the wwe do to make me actually care to watch all of their shows without all the recapping.

I'm in a little discussion about the top ratings for RAW. I always hear This Is Your Life by many people(what's the rating?). However, I've also thought the Austin/Taker match and the 10 man tag with the Radicalz and Rock against DX was the top raw rated segments ever. My belief about the This Is Your Life has always been that it wasn't the actual content, but the belief that Foley MIGHT have turned on Rock by doing this skit. I agree that it is sometimes what people hear is going on and tuning in rather than the content. This is not always true, but it is an aspect.

There is good and bad to the brand split, but this is the MAJOR flaw people on the net or in the wwe have not noticed. A big component that people always use is that it gives people time to shine, but there is a flaw in this. It also makes fans notice the weakness of the wrestlers before their time. Let's look at guys they have pushed prematurely in the last couple of years and look at how guys in the 80's developed. How the brand split has kind of neutered some progression although it made progression by pushing guys to the top. If there was one roster some fail to realize that people like Randy Orton MIGHT be better off. Randy Orton, John Cena, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, JBL, Brock Lesnar, Benjamin, etc. The majority of the guys WOULD be midcarders 15-20 years ago, but that is not a bad thing. That is where they really belong. Orton in all truth should not have been a world champion already. If he was in the mid-card of a monster roster he would be in the middle of the cards, so would be John Cena. They would stand out in the midcard, but they would not be exposed either. The top of the card would still have HBK, Angle, UT, HHH, and whatnot. Okay, in the 80's Hulk Hogan was at the top and the wwwf would rotate guys from the mid-card uppercard with Hogan in the world title scene. Everyone believed Hogan as the world champion and if someone like Butch Reed was put into a feud with Hogan it kind of legitimized them as superstars to reach to the top of the card. However, Butch Reed was really only mid-card. The real big feuds that everyone remembers are with the seasoned veterans like Andre, Dibiase, Savage, etc. However, when someone got the tools after being IC champion he would move to Hogan at the top. Now, let's look at last year with Benoit and Eddie. Both men worked hard all of these years to reach the top, but the wwe blew their whole wad by telling the same story twice within a month. If there was one world champion, the wwe could have told Eddie's story this year and crown him as champion. He would be a champion of a full roster that could help him instead of hinder him like smackdown's diluted roster last year at this time. Orton could have still been in Evolution and they could have ran Orton/HHH when Orton was well seasoned because HHH would still be facing other seasoned guys with a full roster. The brand split was suppose to slow things down, but it has actually rushed things such as Brock Lesnar. Lesnar really started to come into his own in late 2003. Guys like Jericho have become less marketable and useful due to the brand splut having newer guys doing what he took years to do within a couple of years. I don't know, maybe this is the problem that has caused the comapny to fall since doing the brand split. Things are being too watered down and the masses knows it. When guys like Randy Savage are two time champions, yet we have a guy like Brock Lesnar being champ more times with less ability it makes the product look weaker than years ago. It's a crime that someone like Roddy Piper never became champion, yet JBL reigned so damn long. Since we got to put up with HHH in the main event scene wouldn't it have been better if he was mixed in the angles used by the heel champions of smackdown in angles against Eddie and whatnot? It would have been much better than the crap he was doing with guys like Steiner. Of course, there is bad to this, but just seeing how things would go the opposite direction without the brand split. I was thinking about this after reading this rumour on the net: The general feeling among many within WWE at this time towards both John Cena and Batista as the World Champions for each respective brand is that they should not be measured or compared against the likes of Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels when they were all top babyface champions at one point in their careers. Vince McMahon has reportedly made it clear to many critics that the reason Cena and Batista are in the positions they are right now is because of a lack of fresher, more "ready options" in his opinion. McMahon has taken the approach that it's expected that both will make mistakes along the way and probably not get pops that Steve Austin or The Rock got at their peaks (although I'm sure some would argue that point given the large amount of reaction Cena is getting every week on SmackDown, especially in Birmingham last week). At this point, both Cena and Batista are being labeled by those in the company as "projects" who have some weaknesses that were expected, but with some work and tutoring they could eventually become reliable stars. "Neither of them is better than mid-carders by the standards of 15 or 20 years ago, but they have varying levels of charisma and marketable looks," said one WWE source. When it comes to talking on the mic, Cena is obviously considered the stronger of the two. Plus, with youth on Cena's side, there will be much more patience for him. Batista on the other hand is considered much weaker on the mic, but more over at this time as a top draw for the company. Despite this taking place, one top WWE source is disagreeing with the approach adding, "How many examples are there of more seasoned wrestlers who are more ready for this kind of push who have been saddled with lame comedy acts which mean nothing, while Batista is being pushed into this top spot prematurely.

I believe it was a combination of things as well, but I think it's been weeks in the making. A goldrush tourney final with Edge and Kane must have surprised the general audience when HHH and HBK are eliminated from contention. Flair and Batista all buddy buddy. The real test is next week. Will people care to see Edge against Batista?

I guess another flaw of this brand split is that the wwe has made it two tv shows in the minds of the corporate tv world instead of two wrestling franchises. RAW and Smackdown may seem like all the same thing. The wwe should have also tried to make it distinguished to the masses as something like the American and National League for MLB. MarvinisaLunatic, in another thread you stated the move of smackdown to fridays is the end of the brand split. I think depending on how they do the draft will be telling. If we see a buch of stars just head over to RAW and smackdown doesn't really get anything back it could be a sign. If UPN doesn't want smackdown next year fall would the product even get a good deal again in terms of a channel that isn't lame? USA will supposedly spend over 8 million on RAW advertising. Will they do this for smackdown especially if RAW just stays at the same level it is now(it seems Vince thinks ratings should go up on USA again).

Hmmm....no smackdown thread. I can't imagine what it will be like on friday nights if smackdown usually gets 2 page threads or no thread at all. Maybe UPN knows what its doing

dude that would absolutely rock. of course it would wreak havok with WWE's business, but you have to think the raw/smackdown thing would gain tons of intensity (which WWE would probably kill with bad booking as per usual but whatever). That would be damn interesting to say the least, but this company can't pull it off. Who knows maybe Vince agreed to this. He already sees the show as the "minor league" of the wwe. UPN probably got wind of what they have in store for the draft lottery and just shifted the show to friday. However, friday night was the night that got a 15.1 rating on NBC in 1988, so fans will watch I think. Of course, there is no way in hell this will happen in the near future. It's not like this is coming on at 11:00 or even 10:00 when people are just stepping out or am I wrong on this?

Well yeah. They're not giving him the title. One hot angle per wrestler. This also came to my mind. We could have got HBK/Benoit this week and then one of those two facing Batista next week, but we got to endure this Lita/Edge crap some more in the main event. Oh yeah, isn't it funny how HHH stays off RAW when this heel turn happens? If I didn't know better I would think he's staying away, so his heel heat won't be scooped and no I'm not a HHH basher like most of the net, but this does seem pretty ironic. I still think they need Matt Hardy for this thing to even really fly the way they expect past a few weeks(Like say next week more like it for the reasons stated by CarnivalizComing).

The funny thing is Lita shouldn't even be a heel for doing this. Kane raped the damn girl and also caused her to have a miscarriage, yet JR is screaming bloody murder

Plus, Cena has stated there is more to the story than what the fans know. I don't know how he would know, but he is apart of the company. I've always stated that we are only getting Matt's version.

Well, I'll mock them. Pfft....What Vince did in Montreal and HBK's shoot comments the night after the screwjob along with Bischoff/nWo on nitro was 100x worse than this tonight. Although, it was throwing it in people's faces. If they could only make people hate all the heels and love all the faces like this business would explode again.

DrVenkman, I like your sig with Benjamin. Too bad they didn't bother mention it with Orton tonight.

Like with so many things with creative this can really screw up Jericho. Who knows, they are probably just saving their ass if Jericho leaves. On the flipside maybe they will do an awesome heel turn like Eddie's(whether or not creative was responsible for that with past rumours they didn't have anything for Rey and Eddie at Mania). It's funny as this angle looks more like for Ric Flair than Jericho. I mean Jericho isn't exactly an old fossil. Ric Flair even wins more than this guy now.

I like the change in character, but I think all his jobbing in addition to this only re-enforces Jericho right before winning the Undisputed championship. Ya know, just an average guy who just can't really get over the hump. The only thing that will save this is a move to smackdown imo and gunning for Cena or vice versa if Cena comes to raw,

HHH and Austin on the same brand? No exemptions in the draft? Undertaker also possible to change brands? Cena fans better hope what I think could happen doesn't with Vince emphasizing the WWE Champion possibly ending up on RAW. Especially with the wwe moving RAW back to USA.

Even if the story was McMahon vs. Austin in 98/99? Mcmahon was easily the top heel. Austin was the top babyface. Bret/Austin feuded about America in 1997. Austin stuns Vince in 1997. Bret gets screwed by Vince Mcmahon becoming the hottest thing in wrestling since the nWo. Austin's rise in popularity grows. Austin gets in the face of MIKE TYSON. Austin becomes champion with help from Mike Tyson. Vince who was against Austin winning the strap becomes Bobby Heenan to Hulk Hogan. Pretty simple stuff entrenched in reality of Austin becoming America's anti-hero against Bret Hart and Vince Mcmahon being the perfect foil of being an asshole corporate suit who legitimately screwed one of his most loyal employees. This was not really the mind of the writers, but going off legit heat created by other scenarios and adding Mike Tyson to the mix.

Cena was on BET'S 106 and Park and was smart enough not to play the video with that audience. That says a lot right there although he had balls to say Jada was his favourite right after 50 cent's video. The crowd definitely knew who he was.

Just some quick comments on these three matches. The title match stipulation should have been used at WrestleMania when it mattered. Booker T losing another racist angle is just flat out immoral on wwe's part. What makes it worse is it's Booker's REAL WIFE. Rey/Eddie: see above with title match

well, I think everyone has good points here, but imo I don't think people watch wrestling for the acting per se. Seriously, there are horrible actors in wrestling, so it must be something else that really lures people to watch. With that said, there are actors in wrestling. To answer this question, I think we should use this biggest cross-over wrestler/actor in history, The Rock. He said that acting is much harder than wrestling. He has said it is similar, but it's not the same. naiwf made a good point. In the broadest sense they aren't actors when you consider each wrestler. They can't interchange and play different characters like a real actor. When Vince proclaimed it's the wrestler's personality with the volume turned up I think it was a good phrase. It's just embellishing. Take Vince Mcmahon as an example. When he screwed Bret, he used that part of his personality to draw in fans, yet he was also acting. It came off believably because it was really part of Vince Mcmahon. Yet, could Vince play the role Batista is now? I doubt it very much. The same with HHH. He is very hated and some of its acting, but for the most part his real personality is being shown and the fans hate it. Then throw in his politics and his "F-U" promo to fans last week and people just want to viacriously live through someone like Batista kicking his ass. It's somewhat acting, but not real acting in terms of movies/tv shows because I don't think it's their acting ability that get people into watching for the most part. When HHH turned face he completely BOMBED because the fans didn't buy him in that role. No matter how well acted he tried to pull it off the fans don't buy that as being HHH, so they crapped on his face turn. It's more about what fans will buy than anything. Orton could have acted out his babyface run all he wanted, but if fans just aren't buying him as being legit they won't bite. Eugene is another example. Where they have him in the show is tolerable, but I can bet money if they started to push him down people's throat in the role of a #1 contender or world champion the fans will turn on it because they won't buy him in that position regardless how well he acts it out. It's a thin line and they are trying to make them actors, but it really isn't in terms of other forms of entertainment. I would also argue the point that Hulk Hogan IS Terry Bollea. I mean ask Randy Savage who also seems to think he IS Randy Macho Man Savage

So, the thread's about ECW and Toronto is brought up. A city who never got ECW. The wrestling organization that apparently bred some of the greatest fans in the world, yet Toronto is being talked about. Yep, we must be doing something right. Toronto is also very rich in pro wrestling history if you check it up. It's a hotbed for a reason. If New York is considered to be the mecca for Vince Mcmahon in America, then Toronto is a mecca for Canada(yeah, I'm a mothercanucker from Toronto). SummerSlam sucked plain and simple. At least JBL got a real reaction at SummerSlam. At Mania the crowd couldn't care any less. The card sucked, so the fans had fun for themselves. When they came to Toronto for RAW a couple of months back there weren't any problems. HHH gets cheered over Eugene because Eugene is a lame gimmick that most people here were attacking last summer. Edge was also stinking up the joint last year and he got booed for it. At least half a year later the wwe did much better for WrestleMania. SummerSlam is the second biggest show of the year and Mania beats it easily. If the crowd was a regular crowd I bet everyone would have called SummerSlam for what it was. Nothing good has really come out of that show with Orton flopping, Eugene injured, UT sucking until they put him against Orton at Mania, JBL with a dead reign(although he has become more entertaining, but the reign sucked), Edge turning heel and probably proving "Lita is a Dumas", and what else? Oh yeah, that wonderful Booker/Cena match that meant absolutely nothing(not even a title match). Seriously, if they did that card with the same MSG crowd for Mania it would have been crapped on too. Besides Vince Mcmahon came on TSN and stated Canada as being heels. They have their hand in it as well.

Don't blame the crowd for not chanting Steamboat because I didn't even know Steamboat came out. This is news to me.

Yes, I can see it now. Kurt Angle wants to STAY heel, so he pulls off an interview that even smarks hate him for. Who says kayfabe is dead? Yes, the day came when Eddie actually was able to pull off a heel turn that many here said he couldn't do(of course, we still got weeks to go, but Rey returning should keep him there for sure). Yes, the day has come where the wwe is starting to build up wrestlers using jobber matches just like some here have asked for. Yet, no one has noticed this is why they are doing it especially before the changes come because of the draft. Yes, the day also came when I was reminded of Ultimate Warrior puking

I thought that match was on one of HHH's dvd releases? No joke here the last time I saw this match was on a download a few hours before seeing Angle/Benoit at the Rumble. Talk about surreal as Angle/Benoit matched pretty good with it and I thought it was better, but of course that was going off real-time. I might have to play it both back to back when I get this dvd.

Not just "hot women", oh no. It's "hot women" who can't do anything other than just stand there and be "hot"! Don't forget they need to pay Puder and the new RAW diva their big bucks.

True what you are saying, but the net is now declaring Masters=ratings because raw dropped this week without his presence