Promoter

Some pretty good stuff here. I liked the industry approach justcoz stated and it would have worked, but they won't do that. They had the opportunity in 2001 and blew it when it really would have mattered when the masses cared. The Invasion just killed all of that. Then they screwed up with the brand extension with how they did the original draft where Flair and Vince just pick and chose random wrestlers out of spite. As someone said they should just become more real which sounds kind of funny, but in Wrestling with Shadows Bret or Austin stated how real wrestling can be with the USA/Canada angle. The storylines must have some real emotion to it for fans to invest their time and energy into it. Most of the storylines they have done over the last few years just do not have this for the most part. Angle/HBK kind of had that real element to it for why Angle could hate HBK because of 1996. They need to do that more than the crap where people do things backstage such as the MNM thing with Rey/Eddie and a match happens out of nowhere. Who cares because there is no real emotion to it. The wwe was kind of like reality tv in some cases. Look at the nWo angle in its infancy. Everyone always wondered what it would be like if WWF and WCW kicked off. Hall and Nash went to wcw and were actually believable as being outsiders sent by Vince Mcmahon. Hogan's heel turn had reality to it because he was selling out arenas when Bischoff was selling meat out of a truck and the Johhny come lately fans owed him for the business being where it was at. Austin and Mcmahon had roots in reality because Vince was trying to protect Austin from further injury and then the whole Montreal incident. All the main stuff that brought wrestling back in the mid 90's had a reality to it which in a few years following reality tv would rob from the industry. Batista/HHH had caught on fire because of the reality of HHH keeping down Batista because Batista was a threat to his title. There was a realism to it which why fans put their energy into it. Then they went ahead and put all that action adventure crap to it with car chases and Batista acting like a spy backstage. Someone brought up the Rock/Brock build up and how fans were anticipating that match. It did good business, but the wwe has not build another match in that fashion which I don't understand why. When they did those promos with Brock training that did more to get him over then him going roughshod over the roster(exclduing the Hogan win). So, what is the wwe? Right now I can't say. I think they were going for the athletic approach on smackdown when Angle and Brock were the focal points with the tale of the tape stuff. I would have thought they wanted Batista and Cena to usher in a new era for both brands, but I'm not so sure now.

Another problem I see with the angle is that Orton has ran his mouth off on HHH and UT for the same thing and the outcome of those matches left his "legend killer" persona a laughing stock. Who would take him seriously against Batista?

Well, there was one rumour I heard about the main event for next year and it's Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle in an ironman match rematch. Either HBK or Angle would win the Rumble and the wwe would do revisionist history with the 1996 angle they started this year. It would also be the tenth anniversary of the ironman match they love to pimp as the greatest of all-time. Add in the rumours of Bret Hart being thrown feelers for the HOF in Chicago and they might have a REAL classic on their hands here.

Are you crazy? Alomar was very talented all around. If you are talking about their mic skills then yeah

Well, I'll add my two cents here about writing for the shows. I don't think they should go the tv show route. They have done this since 1999 and it has basically sunk them. Yeah, 2000 had its moments, but maybe that Royal Rumble-Backlash stretch success hurt them in the long run(along with the peak popularity of The Rock at the time, while Austin's peak was 1999). The Mcmahon storyline of dysfuncitonal family ran the company into the ground that just ruined stuff like the much anticipated Invasion angle. Seriously, both wcw and the wwe got carried away with the nonsense. The way the wwe should do their shows is in a sports show presentation. Believe it or not, I think the years of 1986-1988 and 1996-1998 the business had it right. The show needs diversity as mentioned, but there is a scope to which it should be done. Look at some of these examples and notice how the masses took notice and were drawn to the product. I know times change and whatnot, but there is an underlying attraction that can be done in any generation. Hulk Hogan defeating The Iron Shiek. On the surface, it seems simple, but look at the entire build up intentional or not to Hogan's victory. He was in the AWA and came close to winning the title. Over in the wwf, Bob Backlund was the perrenial All-American babyface on a monster reign. Hogan was previously in the wwf and never got the strap. He returned as a hero and conquered the Iron Sheik who upended Bob Backlund. Now, the wwe has done this in the year 2005 with John Cena being a character the fans can latch onto for this generation. He went over JBL who represented "The Man". WOW! The wwe writers got this right as Cena is basically the top babyface going over what some claim was the top heel. In both instances, the writers/bookers wrote for the wrestler positions instead of just writing for the sake of writing. Cena was the top babyface, so they created a story that would work for him getting the title. The same was done with Hogan in 1984. In other words, they should write towards the wrestlers heat and talent rather than just writing to get people over. There's a difference. Look at Randy Orton as an example. They were writing for him as a babyface champion when he was a heel IC champion. They didn't write towards his talents, but try to write a storyline to get him over in a fashion they wanted him to get over. That works in some cases with guys they KNOW that can handle a switch. Some things they write for feuds are just plain ridiculous and I don't know how they expect it to have heat. They also got to stop writing like a regular tv show in one segment and then write it in a sports show format. An example was the night Batista turned babyface. Batista in one segment is hiding and listening over HHH's comments to Ric Flair and we all see it on tv and in the arena. The next segment we don't hear JR or King talk about Batista hearing HHH's scheme which in itself is silly because why would a cerebral assassin blurt out his masterplan for all to hear. He couldn't see a big ass camera there? They have to make the show in a fashion where they acknowledge what we see the wrestlers and announcers see. They are inconsistent with the writing. The perfect example of writing in the last boom was the USA/Canada angle that dealt with reality and the talents of the wrestlers. NWO/WCW was also well written up until Starrcade '96.

Okay, this thread is pretty terrible in actuality. However, come on, what's wrong with a little fun comparison? I don't see what the problem was with Zybysko comparing Ric Flair with Babe Ruth. The reason being that the show is sports oriented. It's all apart of the magic. Ruth getting the most homers compared to Flair getting the most championships gets over how great Flair is. Look how HHH is trying to break the record. Yes, it's scripted, but it's based off being a show about people in a sport. It's SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT! How else are they suppose to make things seem special? Are they suppose to compare HHH to his role he played for the Mania commercial? How about JBL and Cena's? It doesn't seem the same does it? If they never rambled on about WrestleMania being sports entertainment's World Series or SuperBowl then the fans in turn would see it as just another event which they don't. Hulk Hogan is compared to Babe Ruth because Babe Ruth made the Yankees the house that Babe built. The wwe is the house that Hulk built(which was his promo line in 1993) although Bruno may have something to say about that. Hell, they now use "storylines"/"top story" on sports braodcasts sometimes. Wrestling just uses it to enhance the characters achievements because the pinpoint of it all are championships. You don't see them winning Oscars, so the comparison is okay.

I don't know if this rumour has any merit, but Batista still gets high ratings for his segments. HHH/J.R is what they should be uncomortable with. Batista is outdrawing HHH imo in the last few weeks. The switch of champions is a good idea ONLY if HHH doesn't bury Cena. They need to do something with HHH. Repackage him somehow. Vince really should listen to Patterson about HHH being too dominant. He's in 1990-91 Hulkamania mode now where fans are tiring of him, but he still is a top guy. They just have to do something different with the guy.

Jim Ross has stated that Ric Flair is the Mickey Mantle of wrestling

I think RRR hit the nail on the head. The fans are just conditioned to believe HHH will get the title back and it even gets more ingrained when he is with Ric Flair. Ric Flair who is only 6 titles ahead of Triple H in their eyes. You see, HHH believes the fans will mark out for this long term plan and really they won't in the way he thinks it will. The fans won't care because he's not The Rock or Austin or Hogan breaking the record and by that time who in their right mind would think Flair has a chance against HHH in a feud. I say move HHH over to Smackdown and put him in the Cabinet, but then again I think the wwe would be foolish to have HHH on the same show as Cena. Cena is getting a following and if HHH is around the same conditioning on RAW will suddenly appear on smackdown. HHH does need to get off tv and Batista injuring him is a good idea. Give Hassan the top heel spot and see what he does. Judge it from there watching at home Trips. Seriously, the guy should take a break. Even Hogan didn't hog up the damn title like this in the wwf during his hey day. After the fourth year he lost his title. In the sixth year he gave the title to Warrior and he was a BABYFACE.

I guess HBK will get his wish and have the dream match with Hogan which will be a clash of styles like we have never seen before. The match will stink I still say the wwe might be on course with something if Vince and the damn legends are serious about building to the future. Have Hassan and Davairi go over HULK HOGAN and take REAL American as his theme song. This ties into my belief that Batista will defend the title against Hassan at SummerSlam in Washington and pull a Slaughter on Batista. They won't have Hassan go over Hogan and HBK though. Hassan could be the heel magnet they are looking for, but HHH with his stupid obssession to be Ric Flair will overshadow this on RAW. Send Hassan to Smackdown and run with the US title.

I try. I REALLY try. Do they NOT want their old school fans to continue watching. I mean I try to convince my other friends that things are on the up, but then they had Christy as a contender at ####### WrestleMania. Then they release Matt Hardy and announce this crap again. HHH loses the title, yet it seems he has become Eric Bischoff on RAW making main event matches for the tv shows proving he still runs the damn thing even without the belt. I TRY. I REALLY TRY!!!

HHH is not going to fight Flair until his 16th win most likely. What HHH should do is go around looking for new members for Evolution starting from the bottom and go up the roster. That way it opens up Batista for the top spot, while HHH can hog tv time on the rest of the show like he always loves to do.

I don't think they would bother have Lesnar return the way described here. They will have him work his way back up. They are petty like that and actually in this scenario I don't blame them. It works better with a face anyways. Maybe they will do this angle with The Rock if he ever comes back full time.

Maybe it's me, but Nash sounds like a moron. I've seen Triple H say that people stand by and wait for Vince to make them a star, while it's the other way around. If you get yourself over Vince will give you the ball to make yourself big. You know what...Triple H is right. Nash probably fed that crap to Vince in 1994 and that is why he got that push. Sure, he got some pops for the Rumble that year, but that didn't mean he had to be pushed with winning all those titles within 9 months. Nash didn't get the distinction for being the lowest drawing champ ever for nothing. You got to eventually bring the sizzle along with the steak. The man baiscally admitted it was okay for him to kill wcw with his booking(which he still doesn't understand why it sucked) because he made it a monster with the nWo. Read between the lines. They can put blame on Turner executives all they want. When the wwf starting to kick it in high gear they shit themselves and couldn't counter book to handle Austin and the attitude era. Kevin Nash it seems doesn't undeerstand how using people's strengths to create them into mega-stars is what really works. If things really went the way he said with having the look and whatnot, the business would just hire stunt men in hollywood with the right looks. It's not that simple. You take people's strengths and the popularity of the star and magnify it, so that ladies want to fuck them and men want to be like them. That is how it works and I don't care how much "experience" Nash has a booker. No wonder Vince whooped their ass once the "wwf takeover" and star appeal of the 80's guys in wcw wore off. That is the REAL reason why Nash got big when he failed like Lex Luger(another one with a million dollar body and monster push that went nowhere) as wwf champion.

Oh, I know it's not an angle just like the wcw issue. It's just the hogwash done by both Lesnar and wwe in this whole situation. Starting with his "dream" to play football and leaving last year with that horrid match with Goldberg to all the crap he was saying and doing such as not signing any wrestling stuff. Then suing the wwe and the wwe suing back. This all just seems like some convoluted storyline which we know they are capable of. In terms of the courts, I think it's just a waste of damn time for the justice system. Lesnar is an idiot and the wwe's response is laughable when you consider they got a goldmine of an angle if he returns, so saying they would need to build him back up because of his actions is ridiculous. It's like Hogan suing Russo and wcw for name-calling. It's all in the game.

HHH has already stated on CNN Headline news that everybody talks about him losing the title. There ya go! Although, Batista turning on Trips did do a monster segment, so having him crowned champion would obviously do numbers initially.

SummerSlam 2005 World Title Match Washington D.C. The Nation's capital's own BATISTA defends against Arab-American Hassan! Just saying! They had him go over the first undisputed champion. They wanted him to go over Chris Benoit. He did not even job to Shawn Michaels. He was in the ring with Hulk Hogan at WrestleMania. It seems like he is going to feud with HBK now. *I just wonder about Vince's comments about JBL being a good face* If there is a draft and JBL comes over from smackdown I would not be surprised to see JBL vs. Hassan for the title. Of course, this throws a monkey wrench into Triple H's plan to be Ric Flair, but why stop progression now.

Maybe the wwe is pulling the greatest angle of all-time with all of this Lesnar crap Seriously, if Russo was on board I would be suspicious of this whole thing. Didn't they do something like this with the courts in wcw with Hogan?

Just like she said there would be a new wwe president last fall?

SNME? Let's hope they can capitalize on this and don't turn my childhood memories of the show into WCW RAW. Just warning y'all Okay, this is a question I've seen brought up elsewhere. Would RAW actually draw better if it was cut down from 2 hours? Someone stated that the over-run was really a by-product of the monday night wars, but so is giving away 2 hours of wrestling on monday nights. Sometimes I think people really glorify RAW's past because they forget at one time it was only one hour and it prevented filler crap from airing. Maybe if they have RAW trimmed from 2 hours to 1 and half or 1 hour would actually make people care for the ppv shows again. I'm not so sad to see those horrible weekend shows go. Maybe they can now make that 1 hour show actually good like the old superstars. I think they should actually condense the hours more to make fans crave the product. I mean Bischoff killed Nitro and wcw with going the 3 hour format.

I enjoyed the show as well. IMO, the first slew of matches really flowed well. Eddie and Rey did not disappoint me because I know both men are not in their prime contrary to what the net likes to think. I think someone summarized things earlier well. Cena and Batista were made to look like lesser stars with their entrances. Why did the champions who are heels and UT all get better entrances then the men who were crowned champs? The title matches were okay, but when you got competitors ranging from Christy Hemme to JBL to Cena to Batista with HHH obviously being the most capable of carrying someone THERE WILL BE A PROBLEM. How they ordered some of the matches and who they spent money on for entrances took away from what should have been the focus on that was Cena and Batista being crowned. The sports entertainment stuff was entertaining at least. To be honest, Angle/HBK surprised the hell oot of me. I didn't think it would be that good considering both of their conditions. Oh yeah, to add to the problem of JBL/Cena before the match even started was Triple H's promo. To a general fan Triple H's taunt probably seems true and really it is. He ends up going to defend the title in the midcard rather the top like Triple H. They shouldn't have done that segment like that.

This is simple and just for fun's sake. What do some predict the card for next year's event will be. This could include what some would do if they had the book. The HOF prediction thread was interesting. Maybe there will be a Chicago connection there(Bret Hart and Austin although highly unlikely they would blw their wad by inducting both men). This year had the WM 1 theme. With the way things are I can only see Triple H being in one of the championship matches obviously.

Thanks to Bob Fitzgerald for sending in the following: On the Nationally-Syndicated STEVE & DC RADIO SHOW this morning, Hulk Hogan said the following: * They tried to put together a Hulk Hogan/Steve Austin match for Wrestlemania, but they couldn't come to terms. * Regarding the chances of him clashing with Muhammed Hassan at WM21, Hogan said that he was sick of "this guy calling the President a coward, and calling our troops a bunch of chickens... This war is serious, and this guy (Hassan) is crossing the line" - then adding: "WrestleMania is a long show to sit through...I just might have to come down there to the ring and beat somebody up" - he NEVER mentioned being too hurt to wrestle.

You see that is my point about why some are down about the hype for Mania this year and the quality of the card. If you really look at Mania cards of the past this year's event isn't really bad at all. It is strange they are only promoting 8 matches, but it does make me think they will give the proper time to the ladder match, Angle/HBK, and Rey/Eddie. If they do that and the men deliver even at the good rate people will praise it. The underwhelming hype will only make it better although Angle really sounds like he is serious about trying to have the greatest match ever. Hopefully, the man doesn't kill himself in there with his condition. Cena/JBL could be a decent brawl. The trick there is the match outcome. The same with Batista/HHH. For what they have I think they've done a good job. Could it have been better? Yes, but it would have to be re-shuffled and built from months ago. Akebono/Big Show is trying to get the Hogan/Andre freak show element to it for the masses. Will it work? Maybe or maybe not. They had Goldberg and Lesnar for that last year and I'm sure that won't dissapoint as much as that since Akebono is not a pro wrestler. I will not forgive them for the women's title match though when they got Victoria and Molly just wasting away. In being completely honest I don't think WrestleMania has ever been the same since Hogan/Warrior in 1990. For some reason the shows just felt real grand back then from top to bottom. Sure, looking back matches like Santana vs. Barbarian seem average, but at the time those matches were rare for us to see. It could be that they over-expose everybody weekly nowadays. I think it was only until WM 14 did Mania start to get back to its old school level where Austin was crowned champion with Mike Tyson. WM 15 sucked plain and simple as that is another WrestleMania I never re-watch(I forgot about this show as I don't have this on tape either and don't plan too*I'll just keep the main event just like Mania 20). WM 17 when it went down felt like Mania, but that build up was horrible. Remember the crap with Debra in the Rock/Austin storyline that ended up being about nothing? Even Taker/HHH's build sucked. Hogan/Rock would have the best build if it wasn't for the stupid ass semi nonsense. They haven't hyped up WM properly since WM 14 in my opinion. WM 16 I already touched upon as that probably got the best hype with the All-Day Long and the fatal fourway, but the undercard build was terrible. They used Mania's history to sell that show, so it kind of doesn't count.

Good points. It would explain Vince wanting to hand things over to her in 1993 during the trial.