Promoter

Ah, classic Vince! Still protects his property of "Stone Cold" jobbing in 27 seconds although he owns everything! Then again, he has "Hollywood" Hogan winning the title in 1984. Why not just use Hogan? Maybe he's trying to get the image of the heel Hogan into the history books to erase his popularity. Silly logic, but we are talking about wwe here

Oh, I agree that if they wanted it to work they could have. I mean, look how they force other things down people's throat. We know Vince just doesn't want to bring it back as he said so in a press conference before, but was willing to bring back ecw. I remember all the rumours about how they would have brought wcw back, but they kept on pushing the return date back and back. Some of those rumours could have been true with some info that has been made public. I don't know how true, but from what I gathered the divorce storyline between Vince and Linda Mcmahon was suppose to be the basis for giving Shane Mcmahon half the broadcast rights to wcw where raw and sunday night heat would go to wcw. The idea was lightly sketched all the way back to WM 17 during the Vince/Shane family feud. Big Show did say in February of that year in an interview that Vince had something big planned that would shock the world and I gather the purchase of wcw was it. The plan was for the launch to happen after SummerSlam in September of that year, but they had rushed the angle up to KOR and when the wcw raw stuff bombed with Booker T and Bagwell Vince changed his mind to make it only storyline. Then when you take into account that they spoke to people like Goldberg, Bischoff, and Ric Flair that summer and it seems true. As always they changed plans every minute and we got the disaster. I even think they planned on bringing back Hogan and company all along, but Vince just wanted to kill the wcw name regardless of the wcw raw crap.

Yes, that would be included. Hell, it would really start with Ric Flair jumping to the wwf after being fired from wcw. There is a nice story to tell here as it could be said that Flair helped bring some new blood to Vince in 1991 when he really needed it. Having Flair as champ in 1992 also helped ease some media attacks that he only promoted steroid freaks. The wwf at the time was not the juggernaut it was during the 80's and when a couple of years followed with Hogan leaving and the steroid stuff/sex scandal the wwf was in major problems. The truth is that wcw was gaining on Vince long before 1996 and it could be argued that Vince did stuff like Monday Night Raw to combat with Saturday Night on TBS because he lost the deal with NBC to broadcast SNME. Fox did not want anything to do with it either. WM X came and passed and did not get the mainstream press that Hogan/Flair from Bash at the Beach got(George Michael Sports Machine for example). That Vince Mcmahon tried to sabotage Hogan in his print media and created "New Generation" campaign to spite Hogan and curb wcw's signing although he just had Piper co-main eventing at KOR '93 the month before. Of course, all this stuff is hidden under revisionist history.

I'd say this is the exact point where the WWF shot their leg off and still haven't recovered. Everything seemed to slowly but surely fall apart after this PPV. I'd also say this is where the inmates got too much control of the asylum. You guys may have a point as I never really noticed that before. I think in hindsight WM 16 may have been the beginning of the end as the Trips Era really started. Even mighty Steve Austin returned and said he couldn't get Vince's ear. Austin and Rock were passed in favour of Triple H in 2000 and 2001 when it was VITAL for the guys mentioned to become stars. Of course, the argument is Trips being on his "game" back then. The point being having the ear of the boss though. He learned well from his teacher At least in 2000 and 2001 the main event scene seemed much more open and even. Nowadays......

Unbelievable as this angle could have still be going on today, but they are stuck with trying to use the brand split. I think it's safe to say if all things were protected the company brand names would work and draw better than "raw" and "smackdown".

Yep. I knew that was going to be the argument about kayfabe. I know about the evolution and so on, but it's how they did it. When I'm talking about kayfabe I'm not talking about them trying to pass everything off as real, but insulting the aesthetics of the industry. Hell, the admission in the courts in 1989 doesn't even really give leeway that it's fake, but more performance based. They actually went the opposite approach that you speak of. Look how the wwf booked characters and angles pre-1989 and look how they did post WM 5. They went MORE cartoonish than ever with Earthquakes, Doink The Clowns, Macho Kings, etc. Hell, they even helped to hurt Hogan's drawing power with the cartoonish "IMMORTAL" Hulk Hogan crap. Great angles such as the Buschwhackers and so on. Vince used the admission in court as carte blanche to turn everything into a zoo. The guys like Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan failed to draw as well post Mania 5 because of it. When Vince kept to the rule of trying to be realistic with his storylines such as the Mega-Power Explosion and Andre/Orndorff turning on Hogan it was a lot more plausible and entertaining. The wwf did not "get it" until Eric Bischoff with Hall/Nash started to get away from this nonsense in 1996 and giving people storylines that seemed much more plausible or less insulting. They matured the product or at least brought it back to what it was about creating an illusion that what you were watching was real. Vince followed suit with the "Attitude" campaign by trying to show guys like Austin not being puppets of the boss. Nash(as tweener Diesel post Survivor Series '95) and HBK(with the bar room brawl and "collapsing on raw") were trying to get Vince to follow this in 1995, but he quickly nixed the idea. Then when the shit hit the fan with the nWo storyline that maybe Vince sent Hall and Nash down to wcw he came up with more insutling crap like the faux Diesel and Razor. Why insult the damn audience like that? Hopefully, they got their brains right by summer of 1997 and fall to create the "attitude" era where they blurred what was "show" and what was "real"(smark angles/comments) and the fans responded quite well. Then in 1999, they went with "Get It". It was a re-approach as listen to Vince Mcmahon during the commentary during the Superbowl half-time title match with Rock/Mankind. That year they went BACK to more silliness like Vince holding his daughter's teddy bear that UT struck on fire. It worked that year because of the momentum of 1998 and that in 1999 they went to media outlets "outing" the business and speaking more about action adventure. In 1998, they did not do this with the "attitude" campaign as they let things up to the viewers and wrestlers respond on outlets like "if Nascar is considered a sport I think we're in". Even the commentary was different in 1998 with JR giving wink wink and nudge nudge comments, but then still keeping kayfabe by asking "how can you know how to fall like that?". The Rock was also on OTR in 1999 talking about this new approach when he was champion "leading the charge".

Seriously, I think there is more than just creative where this company has shown itself to be complete idiots. Well, if we are talking about BUSINESS decisions where to start? 2004-Lost the damn rights to use HULK HOGAN? Of course, this thing goes back to Vince Mcmahon's dumb idea in 1984. His biggest name of all-time and he can't even milk it anymore? I think he might have the same problem with Steve Austin. His two biggest attractions of all-time! This is suppose to help the 24/7 channel kick off? The whole Goldberg contract and appearance situation. Screwing up the brands. 2003- Mis-handling Goldberg. They tried to re-create the man they purchased to bring business back up, but he gets outfoxed by The Rock in his initial feud and went around wearing Goldust's wig? Did they want to make money off this acquisition? 2002- THE BRAND SPLIT--All I got to say is HORRIBLY DONE! Losing the WWF NAME. MOST STUPID THING EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2001-The INVASION and maybe purchasing wcw at all. At least not making it separate from the wwf. Was this the year of the XFL disaster as well? That was the bullet in the horse for Vince Mcmahon in mainstream media. He was at least winning against them when they were attacking his show's integrity and content with fans packing arenas and with high ratings. 2000-Changing the creative team with having Stephanie Mcmahon lead!!!!!!!! 1999-Going to the stupid "Get It" campaign and going to more hollywood/action adventure approach. It worked for about a year before it started to turn fans away. They should have stuck with the "Attitude" approach. Remember the Attitude commercials where the wrestlers spoke about "this isn't real? try lacing my boots" with the wrestlers going through all the dedication they put forth and even having some guys like HBK challenging people from other sports to do what he did. 1989-Breaking kayfabe!!!!! This is a whole thread for itself and I know the arguments against it(everyone will say most knew it was fake and so on, but that is not what I'm talking about here) but basically it changed things in a bad way with the approach to the business for YEARS until the attitude era took off. Basically Vince got cheap one year to avoid sports taxes and it cost him dearly for years afterward.

No. no. no. I'm saying if they really did it the same way they did the ecw dvd. Just something quick off my head is the nWo. That dvd they did was not even close to what the real entertaining nWo was about. Stuff like Piper showing up at Halloween Havoc and also the beatdown of Piper on a nitro. Stuff like Ric Flair's title win against Vader in 1993 and Hogan/Flair's steel cage match. That is really what I was talking about. I know it's highly unlikely they would do this because some of that stuff is actually more entertaining than some of the crap they are doing now. WCW especially from May 1996 til about the night Goldberg won the title would give today's wwe product a run for its money in the stores and I'm sure Vince knows this. I'm saying it's very possible that Vince cannot afford to do this type of dvd because it will be a big threat. If they really did things out of respect like the ecw dvd and included all the stuff in the 80's it might show up today's product. I'm talking more hypothetical here and not what they would actually do because yes it would be revisionist garbage to make the wwe look like it was always #1 and superior in every aspect (which it clearly wasn't)since the beginning of the war that dates back to the 80's. WCW did have its moments and upsides that the wwe didn't have. I mean all it takes to see this is the dwindling audience ever since wcw folded. I mean if Ric Flair and ECW's dvd did so well, I'm pretty sure Vince would milk some serious coin with some real quality and vintage wcw stuff. Stuff with the Road Warriors, Sting, 4 Horsemen, and the Japanese footage is something different which is why I think those dvd packages of ecw and Flair did so well. Obviously, this would be a conflict of interest for the company which may expose the current stuff even more and that wcw maybe wasn't all that bad. Nostalgic footage is a hell of draw at its finest. WCW really didn't start getting unbearable until about mid-late 99 imo. Hell, even when Russo initially jumped there was some okay stuff such as the Establishment vs. The Youngbloods or whatever the hell they were called.

I think sticking to the ECW dvd is the best deal for everyone involved which includes fans, wrestlers, commentators, and Paul Heyman(who may not even have a say over his own damn creation). A wcw ppv might be more welcomed than this to all involved due to the fact that ecw was the renegade of the big two.

Did RAW have a ppv last month? So many I can't even remember. If not then I would say that was a reason for the spike as well as the wwe doing a good job of making people think they were going to see a title change. When you think about it why wouldn't there be one with this track record? 2003 Goldberg lost the world title! 2002 Angle becomes new champ pinning Big Show 2001 Jericho becomes undisputed champion 2000 Angle in an impossible situation where people thought he would lose With that said I think the higher ups with this info along with raw's rating will really be re-thinking about HHH/Orton drawing for WrestleMania. I mean what excuse would they have for a low Mania buy-rate if they still go with HHH/Orton?

Well, tv ratings are a strange thing when it comes to stuff like this. The wwe probably tests things out like this for the Mania main event. I think they did this starting with 1998 by having Rock/Austin on free television the night after Rock won his first title. I'm sure that did not do huge numbers compared to the weeks that followed. I think that is the key as that match ended up being the biggest buy-rate headliner in WM history a few months later. An important part to look at is the intensity of the match. Rock/Austin had PLENTY of that during that free tv match. In 2000, the wwe gave away the advertised WM main event for a Chicago raw in the weeks building up to Mania and I think that was "disappointing" too, but Mania still did big business that year. Again, the actual heat for the match in the arena was really hot. Austin/Rock's feud was not doing big numbers tv wise heading into WM 17 either, but it was still a big match. Orton/HHH just seemed to be missing something and I think it could be that people actually want to see Batista/HHH more. Batista seems like the kick-ass monster that needs to hand Trips his ass, while Orton is coming off too much like a college pretty boy who is in there because of his family trying to look cute against Trips who has established himself as THE prick of raw. It's just not meshing because of how they handled this thing from the beginning and hopefully they don't do this damn match for Mania which people back in September were saying wasn't Mania main event worthy.

Cena CAN be the future. It's the booking that's messing him up and as been said before about him still learning. Stuff like last night is friggin lame. Cena has to stay cutting edge like the times he feuded with Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar. JBL/Cena SHOULD not happen anytime soon. They have to take their time with Cena imo and I say the earliest he wins the big title is WM 22, but Vince is probably thinking SummerSlam. I think if they put the title on Cena now they will destroy his push worse than Orton's. JBL is the perfect foil for Cena to become the champion because Cena's character is the direct opposite, but I honestly think if they bring back Brock that is the feud that should have Cena win the big title. Cena kind of has the pulse of the newer fans with stuff like spinners on his title belt and creating a "chain gang"(although he should come up with a better name like HBK's Kliq which he doesn't use much anymore). As someone said Cena needs that special feud where Cena's "realness" comes out and things don't seem manufactured. That was a major problem with Orton. They did not give enough time for fans to actually feel any "realness" to HHH wanting to make Orton bleed like a pig. It was too rushed. The same with the "legend killer" gimmick. For all the hate about the Hassan gimmick there is some "realness" to what is being done and that evokes the emotions of the fans. They have to cut down on the feeling of stuff being manufactured. I really think what Cena needs is a Scott Stiener style approach on the mic LIVE on raw and working with stars who can protect his weaknesses. That is one reason why as a heel his feud with Eddie and Angle worked so well. Another thing Cena needs is the MAINSTREAM gimmick that people forget Hogan and Austin had. Cena needs to do something big with a mainstream credible rapper imo when they work out all the tweaks with Cena. He also needs that special feud. Hogan first had the fight for America with Iron Shiek followed by the Rock 'N Wrestling Connection with Cyndi Lauper against Piper. Austin had the roots with Bret Hart fighting for America and going against Vince Mcmahon BEFORE the Montreal screwjob and then had the Mike Tyson incident. It can be done.

Okay, so the wwe had the "WM main event" tonight on raw. Meltzer on sports radio claimed that Orton/HHH was said to not be etched in stone for Mania. Anyone with ideas on why they gave the match on raw tonight? I think they want to see the rating for the match and go from there. I'm starting to think the idea of Edge/HBK might be the world title match at Mania(with HBK being champ somehow up against Edge's "boyhood dream" with the Evolution break up being a storyline driven match. Of course, I only see HHH allowing HBK wearing the strap.

If there was any multi-way match that they should be planning I would say Batista/Flair/Orton/HHH has the best backstory and let the world title be in another match. Angle/HBK would be my choice as they can just make up some kind of convoluted story as they always do. Then again they might go with Edge as champ against HBK and Angle if the Survivor Series stuff has any merit.

The wwe can't even get their own storylines correct. That Hogan title loss to Andre was later discovered to be Dave and Earl Hebner being twins. They had it all over the programs and magazines around WM 4. The "evil twin" sold out and locked his brother in the back to referee the match.

I actually thought the wwe had a great storyline of Trips on smackdown as well. Orton could have taken over Evolution on raw slowly and it could have led to Orton/HHH at Mania 21 if that was the plan all along. Although, I think it just came into thought around SummerSlam. HHH could have still been the boss or think he was the boss with SummerSlam and Survivor Series being major pivotal points in creating tension in the group. Hell, it could have been well told stories having Flair and Batista show up on smackdown for HHH against the law and so on. They could have twisted and turned this Orton/HHH saga much better imo.

People are defending Bradshaw now? I like the guy's character, but marketing is obviously working. This thread comes up now after Bradshaw has basically gone over all the important faces on smackdown besides Cena and Big Show. Obviously it makes no sense now to take the title off him. However, when we get Bradshaw holding the strap until summerslam next year and making people vomit in disgust blame the JBL apologists. Personally, I would not mind if Bradshaw held the US title and I think the only damn reason this guy is getting this uber push is that it belonged to Lesnar. The greatest champion schtick was done by Lesnar this time last year and it could be an opening for Lesnar to pop back in and take his title. We'll see as I think putting the title on Cena will kill him like it did Orton. It's too soon. Oh yeah, if JBL is actually that much over I ask how well would he fare if he was put on raw. Evolution would swallow him for heel heat. Actually, they would turn faces due to them being more entertaining.

You know, WCW stole more from the WWE than the other way 'round. Well, maybe the 1993-1995 wcw did. You know how well those years went(although they did Hogan/Flair's program much better than Vince did). The Memorial Day nitro to the 1999 wcw I think Vince stole more from them than the other way around. When Russo jumped ship can it really be fair to say that they copied the wwf when it was the wwf's head writer doing the same stuff he did under the wwf roof? I mean who could forget Stone Cold Hogan? How about The Book? WCW gets too many potshots for Russo's lack of creativity on this front.

That is somewhat true, but I also think a major problem came with how Vince started to operate. When Backlund was champion the wwf would run this same practice, BUT they would make sure to change the finishes of the matches. Fans started to catch on as believe it or not there were fanatics out there who went from city to city to watch Hogan title defenses. They also went to more pre-packaged entertainment from "working" as well(which is why I stated Hogan of 1985-1988 was the man at his strongest). The changes came in the summer of 1988*post SummerSlam* and took a radical makeover post Mania 5. Hogan kind of stated in an interview that he had a problem with today's product not "working with the audience" and the wrestlers going blow by blow with the layout of a match. To be fair this goes back to other comments on how the system of education has changed and that some of the guys now did not learn how to improv. Not to get back into that whole workrate thing again, but that element plays a big part into working a match. Hell, even the "bad workers" such as JYD knew how to work the crowd into their matches which is why they got over.

Hunter's Torn Quad you did a great overview for wrestling 101, but this company has Big Show as the face against Kurt Angle whom by all accounts he murdered Now I wish Vince would be stubborn in not bringing back ecw. Damn, he's hellbent on keeping the stipulation on wcw This things smells disaster all over it. Great American Bash wasn't atrocious enough? They can hardly spark the same kind of emotions for its big four events(although Mania is always Mania) much less bringing back an ecw ppv.

Yes, but when you consider that sometimes they would run the same city with the same program that is to be expected. The program would be champ gets c/o or dq'ed with the rematch going the other way until the final match was gimmicked. That is how they ran even before Hogan. They milked it and then put the match on snme sometimes. Vince bled it and made his money. Nowadays, you see them go to a city once a season sometimes with completely different programs and not get full houses. This with dwindling ratings and I think we know who Vince would choose as champion if he had the choice of either era. Besides Hogan 4 year reign was considered to be short compared to guys like Backlund and Sammartino.

I think they have shifted so much times on the philosophies of each brand that they just came up with the latest incarnation that smackdown is the breeding ground for raw. That smackdown would have the newer faces and raw would have the established stars. I mean you don't think guys like JBL and Eddie winning the title isn't a bit strange? Then you got people like Billy Gunn and Holly getting title shots. UT and Angle are kept pretty much strong with everyone else just there. They have the WWE title there to help get the wrestler over instead of vice versa. It worked with Lesnar somewhat because the way he reached the title was somewhat old school. Again, this thinking all started with Benoit's jump imo where HHH took potshots at the wwe champion on raw either in January or February. They stacked raw after they got their UPN deal through in hopes of getting raw stronger ratings for when that brand is in renegotiations. Smackdown WAS the more athletically inclined show until earlier this year, while raw was more storyline driven.

Pretty interesting stuff here, but I think if Vince Mcmahon had the choice of landscape to choose from he would pick the 80's for all the points made here and more. I think you have had to live through all the changes over the years to really appreciate each changing face the business went through. Seriously, the 80's imo especially 1985-1988 is the sole survivor as the golden years. Here is my veiwpoint... Jobbers in the 80's were over. JOBBERS! Guys like "Iron" Mike Sharpe and "Special Delivery" Jones are still talked about today. I can't even name one jobber today. Maybe Val Venis and he really isn't a jobber. They just don't know what the hell to do with the guy and job him out. The jobbers had characters and the fans knew it(yes even marks) and still watched. The tag team division even had its unique jobbers like the Conquistadors. We don't see that today and it hurts a ranking system for fans to latch onto wrestlers rising and falling on the "competive ladder". Now we have HHH and everyone else. You then got Orton and so on. Benjamin is the IC champion, but does anyone truly believe he is the second in command in terms of champions on raw? I can't even bring smackdown into this as both of their champions seem like midcarders parading with belts. This goes back to what someone said about everything just seemed important back then. Look at the champion combinations of the 80's compared to now. You could differentiate the divisions, yet still see someone in one division contend in another division. It was easier to follow the path of the careers of the wrestlers. In 1986, the world champion was Hulk Hogan and his #1 contender was the I-C champion was Randy Savage, yet Hogan would be challenged by Bundy and Orndorff and Savage had his defenses against Steamboat and even heel Jake the Snake. Things just seemed more logical and perhaps that had to do with heavy kayfabe. An example would be Kurt Angle getting a title match against JBL on smackdown last week. I liked the idea, but how would that be possible when the guy just lost a friggin hadni-cap match against Big Show? It's too scattered and nonsensical at times and I agree that the breaking down of the "fourth wall" has attributed to this. I also see the argument that Hogan did not have monthly ppv shows back then, yet some do forget Hogan did have monthly house show appearances. I remember Hogan having a title defense against Kamala last month at Maple Leaf Garden and then returning this month for a special "Boxing day" matinee. Why didn't attendance go down for Hogan's house shows? It's the same as the monthly ppv shows. They don't do anywhere close to the number of house shows now that they did then. Then bringing in the championship scene. The wwf use to headline house shows at times by breaking it down by the divisions or A,B,C shows. At one city the IC champion such as HTM or Savage would headline the card. Another city would be the British Bulldogs headlining by defending their titles and then of course the Hogan group. They are struggling right now with only two "A" shows running. Yes, the eras are different, but imo there are a lot of similarities and the bottom line is always making money anyways. Exhbit A: HHH is NO HULK HOGAN. Yeah, the argument people make is Hogan not drawing the same way as he did in the 80's. Well, who else draws as well as Hogan did in the 80's? Plus, I would not expect fans to be waiting in the same vien of anticipation for a 50 year old Hulk Hogan against an even older Vince Mcmahon. That is not appealing. It was the same mistake they did with Piper in the same year. According to Jim Ross nobody as he stated Hogan sold the most tickets for the company in its history. This coming from JR who loves Steve Austin. Even when Hogan didn't have the belt in 1988 to some people it seemed strange. Hogan and the belt were synomonous just as Hulkamania and WrestleMania. In fact, here in Toronto one of our channels shows re-runs of old news broadcasts and one episode from December 1986 gave Hogan accolades for Hulkamania and having it crossover into sports(CityPulse for Torontonians out there and fans across North America wonder why the man got cheered at WM 18). Hogan crossed over into sports illustrated in 1985. All I see Triple H doing now is forcing himself into movies like Blade 3 which even the main star won't promote. Let's not forget Vince seeing dollar signs on Hogan after the Rocky 3 movie. They have tried ever since to do the same kind of crossover and have never seen the success since. The Rock is close, but as we saw with WM 18 the fans still see Hogan as the bigger star taking all things into account. Hogan's biggest matches in terms of historical significance blows away Triple H's. The man has never been in a match at the level of Hogan/Andre. It could even be argued in 2001 the wwf took the title off HHH to give the fans of the attitude era its Hogan/Andre type match in Austin/Rock. Hogan/Warrior also deserves a lot more credit when you take into account the chance the wwf took doing that match. They pitted their two top babyfaces which in those days were a no-no and and top of that put both their titles on the line. It worked out just fine due to the heat both men had. Hogan deserved all the championship glory right up until 1990 imo. After that he started to become a bit HHH-ish, but even then he was doing better business. Exhibit B The IC division was the equivalent of the lightweight wrestling today. That is why people like Perfect, Rude, Savage, and Santana etc competed in the division. Why not compare that division with today's division? You'll be hardpressed to even distinguish who's really in the division because there isn't one as I stated above. It's Triple H and everyone else. There was the Hogan division, but then there was the IC champ's division where the IC champ was always seen as the top contender which explained why a tough challenger would always go up against Hogan and be seen as a threat. The wwf even had a tag team division for the women for crying out loud. The one division they did screw up was the junior heavyweights though, but the argument could be that instead of mishandling it like they do now with the cruiserweights they just allowed Japan to take over the title in the J Crown. Exhibit C I think "Deserving superstars never to win the big one" is fantastic that it makes the title seem hard to gain. They wwe completely shattered this image in 1999 and the titles have not recovered since. It made those who got the title seem special which imo should be the basis of being a champion or acquiring a title. They are somewhat trying to get this back, but are having a hard time since a lot of the roster still held basically a title. 1999-2001 are the prime years of everybody and their mama having a title. Since we are talking 00's here 1999's blur doesn't count, yet the following years are still ridiculous. Exhibit C As someone stated both eras have their poster boys in this area. However, if we are including all of the 00's here I think this incarnation of the company takes the cake simply because they have screwed up "can't miss" chances. In the 80's they decimated guys like Terry Taylor and Outback Jack, but did not decimate their top talent and storylines. I fear what the wwe of today would have done with someone like Ric Flair heading into the wwf in 1991. Booker T is your example. Yes, he is not at his level, but the argument is the same as he was the competition's champion coming into the company. I just felt some of this had to be said in overviewing the 80's compared to the new millennium wwe.

I get what some are saying, but isn't it odd that a writer on the creative team can't listen to what's being done on the creative end of the other brand? It's not like they really want them competing anyways as Vince even stated this in the mainstream press. I also thought Heyman was an advisor for both raw and smackdown, but had some input for smackdown because his character and wrestler are on the brand? It's not like it's a wcw booker listening in on a wwf booker's conversation in 1997. This company is horrendous in keeping things secret anyways moreso than Heyman. This is the guy who had his employees paid with wwf money in the monday night war era with having his fanbase not knowing this in fear of the renegade image being destroyed with collecting money from the big wigs. HHH goes on national television on Canada derailing wrestlers all the time without fear of them hearing it, so why is this any different? Who cares it's wcw type news and drama for the net I suppose

I still say that one move after the Rumble hurt both raw and smackdown. I agree about the super heat he had for winning the title, but take into account Trips DID have something to do with that by tapping out(some would hate to admit this) in a hardcore haven in New York that was giving crazy heat to Lesnar/Goldberg(not the correct heat, but heat regardless). Benoit was always seen as a man who can take the belt anytime anyways which is why they always bring him up in the main events to give the belt and its champion credibility. So much so that I believe the way they made him leave smackdown really hurt the brand. I mean Taker, Booker, and even Big Show imo would not get the same kind of heat against JBL as Benoit would. Remember Benoit was already getting extreme heat on smackdown before raw plucked him up. Benoit jumping had the most impact on both shows for the entire year. Imagine what raw would have been like without Benoit this year in the title scene and yet they forced him to play second fiddle or third or fourth or fifth depending on everything.