Promoter

Oh no, don't open up that can of worms? The conspiracy of Bret keeping his dead brother down will come up next.

I think they are saving the Austin match for maybe a WrestleMania release. A match like that should be WrestleMania exclusive(although Benoit's WM XX win is on his dvd, so a moot point I understand the Hakushi match, but not the Pirate match. I use to like having the accolade of having the hidden gem of Bret/Taker from One Night Only. Well, it's good for the United States fans to see that match. I think it was Bret's truly last great match.

I thought there would be at least one match with the Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs. Oh well, can't complain with 15 hours of footage, but Bret/Benoit from Toronto SHOULD be on there when Bret first won the wcw title. It was very good.

*The Godfather Papa Shango would be so proud*

My expectations for clean world championship matches went out the window when Triple H interferred in the Benoit/HBK title match. There was no reason for that. It's sad I expect matches to not be clean on free television.

Guys, it's here in Toronto and you think they won't want to screw us Canadians again? Orton is going to upset Benoit in the main event of SummerSlam and piss everyone off. The world title has now taken precedent over the wwe title which is a shame. I think the last time the wwe title headlined a co-brand ppv was WM 19. For some reason I just don't see Undertaker winning. I expect the Luger/Yoko type finish from SummerSlam '93. The crowd reactions will depend what breed of fans bought the most tickets. I went to the smackdown tapings here a while ago and the crowd was pretty markish(low attendance), but other times I've gone when things are hot and the crowd was smarkish. Edge could easily get booed here. Shove that hometown crap down people's throat and just to be rebellious the crowd would boo him. Besides they might want to try the Austin turn with Edge in his hometown. Isn't Christian suppose to return? I wouldn't be surprised to see Edge turn heel with his "brother".

I think this would be good, but as pointed out he isn't going to go to the "b squad". Personally, if they wanted to slow burn Orton and Triple H for Mania 21 they should send him to smackdown and have Orton takeover Evolution on raw(sort of a banishment/mutiny). With this year's new stip about the Rumble winner getting a chance to face any heavyweight champ you save Orton/HHH without taking the chance of making the next half year boring with the telegraphing of the feud.

Wouldn't the WHC have the I-C and US titles in its lineage when Triple H unified the title in 2002 against Kane? The two titles were then brought back.

I found the ironman to be good(finish was a bit much though and made it seem like a normal match afterwards). The big problem for me was the "spoilers". Okay, sure Orton won the battle royal and kind of telegraphed things for those in the know, but maybe they should have put that on in the over-run instead. How many people here would complain about Eugene helping Benoit if they did not know about the spoilers? Maybe more people would just be in shock Benoit actually retained. I'm sure I would have if I didn't know about the rumours. I may have been leaning more towards Triple H/Orton somehow instead of Benoit retaining.

I'd rather Jericho vs. Edge and see Edge get booed here. Jericho owns him up here.

Maybe the wwe likes to make these females look like idiots. They got to at least make the suits laugh at their desperate attempt for the money that Vince will probably rip them off of somehow. This could be for their own amusement because they certainly can't think that this will bring in monster ratings. I was joking about the taping it for Kamala(sort of

Now this brings up an interesting question. If JBL keeps the title after the UT feud who does JBL fight next? The only face I can think of that will work is Cena. Unless they want JBL and Eddie to feud again. Cena/JBL are scheduled for some house shows. I can't see them putting the title on Cena just like that could they?

What the hell? I'm here pissed off against TSN for not going to the ironman match and giving us this lame tennis match right now. I came here to see how the match was going. Bait and switch. What?

I'm not saying to stop the Brand Extension, but improve it. Then again, it has been rumoured Vince wants the raw brand to be the A circuit and smackdown the B circuit. The way he has changed philosophy seems that he wants smackdown to be the show to groom his talent for the big sea of raw.

The brand "extension" isn't exactly doing great business. I wouldn't exactly say if it isn't broke don't fix it. It could be better and not much worse. As for the titles and its names look at it like this. Suppose they strip the crusierweight name and call it the Velocity belt and the I-C title turns into the Heat title.

WWE and World could be seen as two different leagues. RAW and Smackdown come off like all the same thing being wwe. It worked in the 80's and 90's Besides raw champ vs. smackdown champ just sounds like blasphemy

Now I really got to tape tonight's raw

I think the wwe should not even use raw or smackdown as the brand names and do a real split. I don't know what to call it, but this whole thing you went over sounds confusing to a regular Joe. I also think calling it something besides tv show names would help make it seem like two different leagues. I don't like using raw champ or smackdown champ either. That doesn't sound too prestigious or elite compared to WWF Champion and World Heavyweight Champion. The world tag titles are in lineage with the wwf tag belts. The wwe even acknowledged this in either the raw or smackdown mag around WM XX when going over the history of events at MSG.

Well, Triple and Benoit might have had Flair and HBK give them pointers which can't hurt. Hell, maybe even Hart gave some words to Benoit for all we know.

If Triple H wins the title in the first hour how and who would give him a rematch on the same broadcast? Bischoff wouldn't do that to Triple H.

Well, this has been fun. I think the next big stars we aren't even going to predict. I have to ask how did people feel about the "new generation" of 1994-1995 and how the wwe dealt with the pushes of certain individuals. To keep things short at the moment I believe the wwe waited too long to pull the trigger on HBK back then. By the time he won the big title at WM 12 he had lost a lot of steam due to the drastic changes to his character and the timing just being wrong. I also feel Bret Hart was getting the same kind of treatment Eddie is getting at the moment as being the guy to help the midcard although he is clearly the main event talent which hurts him in the long run. Many talk about the wwe having dark days back then, but a lot of it had to do with poor execution and wrong timing. This gets me to this topic about Cena and Orton who I do believe the wwe are grooming to build the brands around. I think they have to be careful how they operate with these two guys if they want to bank on them. Cena in terms of popularity could be seen as HBK of 1994 and 1995 and as I stated the wwe blew it with HBK by not giving him the world title at WM 11 when even as a heel(back then much less) he was getting face pops. The wwe knew he would be a star, but waited for him to improve perhaps, but look what happened 1-2 years later. HBK's appeal in the mainstream died down(after WM X here in Toronto, the media was proclaiming him the new Ric Flair). He was getting some strong fanfare and was pitted with mainstream celebs like Pamela Anderson for WM 11. It took the wwf until DX to use the very same HBK that got new audiences on the edge of their seats in 1994-1995 to pop for him. This mind you after over 18 months of Hall and Nash doing the edginess that made their characters appealing in the wwf before Vince changed them into corporate babyfaces. Austin and Rock thankfully avoided the trap, but I believe it had more to do with wcw and the nwo attitude on their tail to keep them edgy in Vince's eyes. Vince doesn't get this side of characters imo. Now, the wwe has John Cena and I see the same kind of thing happening. The cocky bastard character is gone and this kissing babies caricature has replaced him. I see the same thing with Eddie Guerrero. These two guys can carry the brand easily imo. I agree about Cena might not be completely ready along with Randy Orton, but go back to 1994-1995 when the wwe waited too long and messed up characters that fans were latching onto and see they delayed what could have been an explosion. Imagine Vince made Hall, Nash, and HBK rule the way wcw allowed them to in 1996. Vince would have had the boom first. Bret was the more experienced and whatnot, but the kliq really was the group the audience was relating to the most, but Vince's promotional philosophies hindered progress. That's why I say push the young guys now since the men like HBK, Undertaker, and Triple H aren't drawing like they use to. The wwe has to kind of manufacture a "new generation" that has surpassed the last generation(attitude) breed. Hopefully, the wwe won't get another Brock Lesnar situation(never know he could return and be the big star). You see the problems sometimes with waiting is that you give the general audience a preconceived notion that the wrestler can't break. I believe that is a major reason why HBK and Bret did not draw as well as guys like Savage. When they were stuck in the midcard for so long when they moved to the main event scene people had already pigeonholed them as midcarders in the main event scene because the real main eventers weren't there anymore. I think this is why the wwe should have pushed guys like Guerrero and Benoit two years ago. Timing is everything even though it troubles with grooming the wrestlers until they are ready for the position. We all know how trendy wrestling's mainstream fans are. Different styles go through the masses like nothing. 1999's style doesn't work today Triple H dominant champ of 2002 doesn't work today. The fans want to see new guys replace same of the old school. Take for example when Austin really got his push. It's always argued that he lost to Vega, but kept his heat. This is a myth. Go back and watch those matches and see how apathetic the crowd was. Once they started to push Austin with Bret Hart that is when he started to have a snowball effect. In hindsight, Bret should have simply put over Austin at least once between Survivor Series(where I think he should have) and WrestleMania(the match can be the same as it was). The same with The Rock. They made him mix it up with the big dogs and go over. The trick here was that the wwe did not screw up the edginess of their characters. If I had to choose the two guys to push to headline it would be Orton and Cena with Rock and Triple H putting them over in a big feud. They have only been around for two years and haven't been pigeonholed yet as midcarders. Look at guys like Holly and Gunn. No matter how strong they push them fans won't give them a chance because they have been pigeonholed so long. I don't get the company's logic with Edge. It's obvious the fans aren't that excited over the guy turn him heel. They feel we should be ga ga over him as the next superstar and push him hard(Diesel in 1995 anyone?). He should be slowed down and groomed to improve to make us buy he is going to be a serious threat at the top. The picking and choosing of talent along with the execution are very important. The wwe did well with Kurt Angle by positioning him at the right time in 2000 and 2001. It's just too bad he is questionable. The same with Triple H in 1999 and by 2000 it was the right choice as he was really over.

I have read some people's reviews of the book and it does have some interesting stuff like a time where Flair purposely took a fall when he wasn't suppose to in Mexico I think(it has to deal with the confusion with how many times he's held the title). It had to do with Piper interferring as planned, but gunmen pulling rifles on him and Flair, so Flair being smart jobbed the match. The "new champ" went to the locker room to give Flair back the title and they played up as the champ didn't want to leave Mexico, so Flair was handed back the title overseas. I might have the particulars mixed, but this is the gist of it. Too bad stuff like this isn't getting attention. We made it to 20 pages!

Hmmm....so because Benoit doesn't call himself the best there is, was, ever will be he's great and charismatic in his view. As long as Benoit doesn't claim to be the best he's all fine and good. I see. Benoit better not make any claims against Flair or else we'll see Flair rip him to shreds and call him Mr. Roboto. His claim on Bret not drawing and Vince trying to get out of the contract because of it has one flaw. Bret only had the belt for a month before Vince wanted to break the contract. Didn't Bret win the title at SummerSlam and then in September Vince went to Bret about the contract situation? HBK, Sid, and Undertaker were champion in the timespan from when he returned to the wwe. The major program that stole the show was Austin/Bret. As for the Hogan carrying Bret thing isn't that a bit misleading to a casual fan? Bret was in tag teams at the time and wasn't even a singles wrestler. Of course, it's easy to also say Hogan brought wcw into the mainstream, while Flair couldn't. Didn't Hogan break wcw ppv and gate financials with his debut match with Flair? If he says that then he must say Hogan carried wcw to the promise land too.

I agree that this is too soon, but I'm trying to see why they are considering this. I admit that HBK/Orton just did not click, but Orton is better now than he was for that program. Hell, so is HBK who has got back some of his old school groove. I think the wwe screwed up with Jericho/Benoit admittedly. They could have done it for Edmonton's Backlash and they could have done it with the raw from Calgary. Come on, we know it's a smarkish view to think the wwe will give us face Benoit vs. face Jericho for a title match. I'm trying to see how they are seeing this. It is criminal not have a world championship match with the two of these men with their past. The wwe really doesn't like doing face vs. face and you have come up with face challengers for Benoit. The wwe might be seeing this as a detriment to the main event storytelling as Benoit's facdom is sliced with this scenario. It's a shame as the only time Benoit really had the chance to be champion and have a full crowd behind him without slicing was against Kane. Again, the wwe created this problem. I also see the point about the feud not NEEDING the title, but the fact of the matter is if it revolves around Triple H the title will be apart of it. The other option was for Triple H against Benoit with most likely Triple H winning it. The title would somehow be apart of this thing. The title has somehow revolved around Triple H anyways by hook or by crook. Maybe they are thinking to break this they can create a new heel champion that causes tension with Triple H without putting the title back on him instead of finding two million ways to keep him as the top contender for every ppv show. Remember, who Triple H is related to here. I'm surprised he allowed his rematch with Benoit to be replaced for SummerSlam. I know Triple H and Orton breaking Flair's record is kind of a joke, but Flair has one huge advantage and that is back in his day the title wasn't passed around like a $2 whore. I see what you're saying about devaluing the title simply for shock value, but Orton WAS I-C Champ for the longest time since The Rock in 1998. This is NOT similar friggin Bradshaw's situation. I also agree that Orton isn't even close to what Rock was in the weeks leading up to his title win at Survivor Series. I don't know I like the risk, but there is a big chance of this bombing if not executed properly in his title win AND his title reign. I don't think they can do what they did for him with the I-C reign. He must defend more regularly being the main event.

Okay, I like these kind of debates because I bet this is how the board room of wwe have thier little tit tats. Let's look at the positives of putting the strap on Randy Orton. -It opens up the wwe main event scene on raw for faces to chase a new champion besides Triple H. Yes, Orton is not really fully ready, but look who the contenders for Orton would be....Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels, Eugene(who can wrestle), Edge(who has the record of ending his I-C reign), perhaps Flair and Triple H down the line and even the long shot of The Rock. -It opens up the storylines. You got the Evolution breaking up storyline as the coup de grace. They can tease it all the way to WrestleMania or break them up as soon as monday's raw. It shakes up the main event scene and can actually create spots for guys to make a new Evolution. -The negatives are that Orton may not be ready and able to carry the mantle of champion. It can cause a similar situation that Brock Lesnar faced in getting things too quickly. However, if Orton is suppose to be the evolution of the sport I think another storyline can be spun here. Orton can try to break Flair's record and not rush it since he has YEARS to do it. Triple H doing it may seem more forced. However, Orton can become a flash in the pan when all is said and done. -The positives of Benoit as champ is that he can wrestle a toothpick in the ring and make it seem like a competitve match where you second guess if he can retain. What would be the list of contenders however? Triple H, Ric Flair, Batista, Orton, Kane(not likely since he's involved with the silly pregnant angle), Christian(wouldn't be compelling), HBK(maybe, but unlikely as well as Jericho), and maybe Edge. If there is one match-up where Benoit can be built up to lose the strap I don't see it which is why I guess I could see there being no reason for him to drop it by some. However, I can't see where the wwe can lead Benoit after SummerSlam and actually make the title seem as the most important thing on raw if Triple H is not going to regain the strap. This is not Benoit's fault admittedly though. Another thing to take notice here is if the wwe feels Orton is following somewhat of the Rock template. The Rock arguably wasn't ready for the title at Survivor Series '98. They had turned him kind of face, but he was not really built up like say Kane, Taker, Mankind and Austin who were the favourites to win. Maybe that was by design to have the shock of Rock winning and turning back on the fans. They might be trying to do this with Randy Orton at SummerSlam. Also remember about the rumours of Austin winning the title at the Final Four ppv in February 1997. The wwe felt he was a top guy way before winning at WM 14, but just didn't pull the trigger. I think it really all depends on what they do monday night on raw. It has to come down to Triple H and Orton having conflicts and Orton taking Triple H's spot as the top contender. That is the only real way they can rush this thing with it not coming off lame or have Orton go over in a #1 contender's match the very same night which I think they might do. Let's see first.