Promoter

You know this is not a bad idea. If rumours are true for SummerSlam could you imagine Orton becoming champion and then with his new power gets Triple H and Ric Flair ousted off raw? That way the wwe could have Evolution implode and actually save the Triple H/Orton match by building it between both brands for the next few months. Didn't Angle want to be some kind of Evolution-like member? Put Angle as a replacement in Evolution and hopefully by WM 21 we can get HBK/Angle.

I think this is a report that is being twisted to make it sound juicy. Vince probably is upset raw got a lower rating than SD because he feels raw should be getting higher ratings for how stacked the show is. I also think it has something to do with the wwe trying to score high ratings to convince Viacom of a great deal when the contract expires. That's good because now Vince will not have that stupid ass Diva Serach be the centre of the promotion in commercials like last week. It does nothing to improve the actual show. Get it together Vinman.

I also think Survivor Series was the better timing for this. However, the comparisons with Angle's first world title win are correct according to Y2Jerk. The wwe might go the full monty with this Orton title reign and have him pushed to the moon and hold the strap until WM 21. If they really want to make this guy a legend killer I would have him go over Triple H at either Survivor Series or Royal Rumble and then DEFEND against The Rock in Los Angeles. By that time he would have tied his own accomplishment of being a champ for 7 months. I guess we all know that isn't going to happen. Trips will want his big match to happen at Mania although I think they could so something else with Triple H that won't be so predictable and that is actually leave raw for smackdown and put HHH in the wwe title division. It sure as hell would help their cause.

4hartthreat, I think Orton winning at SummerSlam would cause a bigger ripple. It would come out of nowhere, but it would have direction. People are saying it's a bit premature to do and maybe that's correct, but it also means people are kind of not wanting Benoit to lose so soon. Building it up would take the sting out of the feat since it could be telegraphed for the Orton/HHH feud. Orton will get some serious heat in Toronto beating Benoit, but then again if this rumour starts to spread the shock won't be the same. This city can be pretty smarky at times. I would not be surprised to see fans backing Triple H against Eugene. As for the HBK in Toronto heel thing that might not be true. The last few times he has been here he has got face pops against Canadians like Jericho(remember the program leading to Mania 19?).

I think a lot of the appeal of Flair's DVD goes with what I said above. MANY people just simply did not see as much of Ric Flair in his hey day because the wwf was the mainstream promotion. Many of those stuff on the DVD fans have not seen. That may not work in Bret's favour, but there are a lot of matches Bret has that haven't been released or seen as well from Stampede. It's also arguable that the wwe wasn't as mainstream during Bret's hey day and some newer fans may get the same vibe and appeal of seeing another legend at his best because they never got the chance.

Guys, this rumour makes a lot of sense. Look, Benoit goes over Triple H not only at WM XX, but at Backlash and Vengence. Triple H is scewing up left and right as he brings a retard into things. Orton on the other hand holds the I-C title and drops the title to Edge. They are setting up Edge for the first big defeat for Randy Orton WWE Champ. Orton will get his job back from Edge, but Edge will keep his title. I agree with some about the divisions needing some kind of an illusion and people can't be jumping all over the place, but the wwe has a storyline tool for Orton getting a title shot. That is either Evolution breaking up or Orton trying to upstage Triple H by claiming he will get the job done(since Trips has dropped the ball*where have we heard that before?). The dissension in the group can work and perhaps Triple H losing to Eugene is the final nail in the coffin for Triple H fearless leader(disappears and does his movie). I think the wwe might know what they are doing with this one guys.

This is something I copied off a website that copies off Dave Meltzer. Maybe some interesting discussion can come out of this. OK, here it is, I've combined last years numbers into the report. The first number covers May 2003-October 2003, the second number convers January 2004-June 2004. Smackdown Characters Akio (N/A) (-57,714) Kurt Angle (+402,130) (+248,900) Danny Basham (+43,900) (+39,778) Doug Basham (+43,900) (+57,222) Shelton Benjamin (+304,545) (+106,250) Booker T (-70,670) (+173,143) John Cena (+22,130) (+224,182) Chavo Classic (N/A) (+95,857) Bubba Ray Dudley (-37,450) (+115,000) D'Von Dudley (-37,450) (+116,111) Spike Dudley (-117,830) (+14,167) Rene Dupree (-41,390) (+241,000) Funaki (N/A) (+108,250) Zach Gowen (+484,600) (N/A) Chavo Guerrero (N/A) (+199,611) Eddy Guerrero (+310,375) (+277,846) Billy Gunn (+279,330) (-127,000) Charlie Haas (+299,190) (+131,545) Paul Heyman (N/A) (+355,444) Hulk Hogan (+468,250) (N/A) Bob Holly (N/A) (+214,143) Scotty 2 Hotty (N/A) (+104,667) Mark Jindrak (-181,830) (N/A) Billy Kidman (N/A) (+127,714) John Bradshaw Layfield (N/A) (+136,267) Brock Lesnar (+326,610) (+312,111) Stephanie McMahon (+620,100) (N/A) Vince McMahon (+625,720) (N/A) Shannon Moore (-50,000) (N/A) Rey Misterio (+100,550) (+77,765) Jamie Noble (+8,130) (-12,625) Nunzio (-29,500) (+3,833) Rico (N/A) (-57,250) Rikishi (-110,750) (N/A) Sakoda (N/A) (-57,250) Big Show (+299,620) (+286,538) Spanky (+12,750) (N/A) Johnny Stamboli (-29,500) (-3,857) Tajiri (+89,690) (+162,600) Undertaker (+226,500) (+327,200) Rob Van Dam (+53,360) (+131,333) Torrie Wilson (-56,800) (+273,800) Raw Characters A-Train (+70,000) (N/A) Steve Austin (+429,560) (+50,200) Batista (N/A) (+311,121) Shelton Benjamin (+304,545) (+309,625) Chris Benoit (+311,360) (+371,269) Eric Bischoff (+381,570) (+160,250) Garrison Cade (-27,170) (N/A) Booker T (-70,760) (+22,375) Christian (+132,060) (+36,333) Robert Conway (-41,390) (-8,900) Bubba Ray Dudley (-37,450) (+34,750) D'Von Dudley (-37,450) (+106,500) Rene Dupree (-41,390) (+56,000) Edge (N/A) (+406,615) Eugene (N/A) (+300,357) Ric Flair (+282,110) (+368,444) Mick Foley (+574,000) (+455,667) Bill Goldberg (+427,060) (N/A) Matt Hardy (+20,250) (+19,846) HHH (+408,470) (+287,875) Mark Henry (N/A) (-91,800) Molly Holly (+5,110) (-173,889) Hurricane (-69,230) (-185,333) Jazz (N/A) (-122,200) Chris Jericho (+261,890) (+122,966) Kane (+251,600) (+46,077) Stacey Kiebler (N/A) (-23,200) Lita (N/A) (+58,250) Vince McMahon (N/A) (+98,167) Gail Kim (+235,500) (N/A) Rodney Mack (-180,270) (N/A) Maven (-114,330) (N/A) Shawn Michaels (+266,220) (+290,294) Kevin Nash (+143,180) (N/A) Nidia (-111,000) (N/A) Randy Orton (+88,310) (+378,567) Rhyno (+131,220) (N/A) Rock (N/A) (+600,200) Rosey (-156,000) (N/A) Scott Steiner (+30,600) (N/A) Lance Storm (+41,300) (N/A) Trish Stratus (-96,500) (+50,285) Tajiri (+89,690) (+32,286) Rob Van Dam (+53,360) (+133,778) Victoria (N/A) (-107,00) -Peformers who switched sides during this ratings period are reflected on both programs for their numbers their. -Numbers should be taken as a general range of effectiveness for the year and the difference between 370,000 and 380,000 is meaningless. -Benoit, Evolution, Shawn Michaels and Edge have an advantage over Kane and Chris Jericho because of the spots they frequently appear in during the program. -Rock's numbers were helped greatly being being a "special attraction". Foley had the same benefits, but cooled around Mania when he became a regular player. -A general rule is a Superstar should draw at least 300,000 and a super top draw should draw over 400,000. -The main players on Smackdown aren't over as TV stars. Eddie is actually drawing fewer as a main eventer than he had a year ago as a midcarder. -Despite how big his pops are John Cena is still nothing special in making the masses turn on their TV's -HHH is currently not connecting with the casual like he should considering his position and push. -The biggest single segment of 2004 was for the end of Eugene vs Benoit and the subsequent Evolution beatdown. Eugene, due to fewer overall segments than HHH and Benoit had his neighbors greatly inflated by this segment as his number aside from this would have been (+199,857) while it wouldn't have a sizable impact on the others as they've had many more segments and routinely drawn well. -JBL's number is deceptively low. Since becoming a single his pull has been substantially higher, an the lower number is mostly attributed to spending 1/2 of this review period in the APA. The shows, in general, have a general trend as far as the ratings go. The main event slot, unless completely repellant is usually the highest rated spot regardless of who is in it, and the top of the second hour also has a big bump, where as the first segments after the top of each hour generally have a bit of turn out rate. So guys like Benoit, HHH and HBK have a bit of an advantage because they regularly appear in the main event, or at least the top of the second hour segment.

What's with wrestlers coming on the internet and pouring their heart out? Bret was okay, but this Waltman thing is kind of creepy

*laugh* 1999 really had some of the most nonsensical storylines ever. I second that "It was me all along" "Momma said your a bastard ha ha" "The Undertaker believes he is a real undertaker" "Going somewhere Stephanie" "That's daddy's little girl's stuffed teddy bear" Storylines: After a year of feuding with Austin and making his life a living hell, Austin the anti-authority figure not only brings back Mr. Mcmahon to television after the "End of An Era" match he helps him win the championship. Anyone else can put down some more of the nonsensical storylines of that year?

Well, all you have to go to is pwtorch.com. The people there love Flair to death(I just wanted to add to thread to make at least 20 pages before it goes in the classic category).

I think fans can suggest matches for dvd at their website. I remember one flyer that came with a DVD asking fans what kind of matches and releases they would like to see. If they listen is another story.

Come on, the wwe has to keep the annual tradition of throwing away millions and trying to top the failures of the past.

I was weary of picking up Foley's dvd, but you guys might have convinced me. For what I've seen I suggest Flair's, Hogan's, and bloodbath.

That was the same criticism I made in this thread.He goes off on guys who he knows he has a safegaurd against his employment. This is understandable, but God forbid Flair dies tomorrow this stuff in his book will be the record of Ric Flair's views on an industry where he is indeed a legend. I can't believe Flair is all positive about the company he went up against in the 80's. I wish he wouldn't hold back some stuff. Him claiming the wwe was always the superior group undercuts his own legend and really making claims of Bret not being a draw and whatnot is a mute point if he proclaims what he does. Bret as a multiple time champ had to be of some value then if he claims it was the superior group. That's why Hogan's book is kind of a joke along with The Rock's. This stuff will be like a record of history. I guess it'a all about the money anyways. I think Foley will still work the program. They want people to believe it's a shoot(well the less informed fans anyways). Brian, I liked that post and reading it something came to my mind. Okay, remember Bret's tirade about not really seeing Ric Flair work, but heard about the legend? I think it is possible plenty of fans never really saw Flair wrestle, but heard of the legend. In Toronto, we did hear about the legend of Flair, but we never really saw him on a regular basis(after the wwf took over the region in 1984). By 1990-1991, many people thought some of the nwa was the real deal since Vince went more Walt Disney with the cartoon characters(up here anyways). Then we would hear about or see clips of the matches between Steamboat/Flair(Steamboat told our media that the wwf was more glitz and glamour, while the competition was more stiff in the nwa). I was just wondering if some of Flair's legacy/legend was really created by the constant promotion in wrestling magazines as being "The Man" and being able to go to sixty minute draws? I also remember the big legend Kerry Von Erich had up here as well. My point is that maybe Frank Jewett's write up is a common thing amongst fans of the wwe. Flair wasn't nearly as exposed as Hogan by the time of his 1991 arrival. Could some of the reason he didn't draw that well in the wwe(although to be fair that timeframe the business had a lot of bad press) was that he didn't live up to his hype(that was REALLY off the radar)? Flair was a focal point in 1992(which I don't even know if it was really that bad of a financial year as 93-94-95 had to be worse, but comparing to the 80's I suppose). Hogan and Sid dipped after WM. The summer feud was built around the championship and storyline of Savage/Flair that got mixed with Ultimate Warrior for SummerSlam after that terrible Papa Shango stuff. Bret and HBK really moved up more in the fall/winter.

I think we have all forgotten that Booker winning the wwe title on smackdown in his eyes would be winning the minor league title He doesn't even want to be in the division.

I guess you haven't seen the house show attendance numbers reaching less than 1000 people in some places As for Angle I think he should have been this political in 2001-2003 during a time he was shafted in some storylines to look like a tool. Now, I think he's just doing it because of his unstable physical condition which must worry the wwe staff. He has the right idea though(talent picks are suspect), but.....let's hope he doesn't become Trips 2002-2003 where he goes from net poster boy to the most hated in the IWC for playing politics and not delivering.

Bradshaw was never punked like Booker against guys like The Rock(who he couldn't beat with Shane Mcmahon "the Kane Killer"). He was apart of the comedy act of BookDust, while Bradshaw had the kick-ass persona of APA with Simmons. Booker lost his race angle, while Bradshaw won his. If they ever gave Booker the push Bradshaw got from hell I have no doubt he would be more over. I really just think RVD isn't world championship material, but then again we got Bradshaw carrying the belt and he is much better than him.

Eugene also got good ratings like this Diva stuff did at one time. I think it's just that it's something different on the show that people take a look to see. Watch Vince run this into the ground next week. Let's hope Triple H/Benoit pull in some strong ratings for the wrestling argument as a ratings grabber.

Maybe the title should go Taker instead At least he squashes big name wrestlers This sounds familiar to the championship reign of Sgt. Slaughter who had title defenses against such greats like "Hacksaw" Jim Duggan.

JBL vs. WHO??? What the hell?

Booker T is too late. I think he got the Lex Luger SummerSlam 1993 treatment as a choker. The fans won't take him serious. RVD's style is not looked upon as championship material in the wwe. I say both men have no chance and it's kind of sad really. Booker especially.

I was wondering if the wwe didn't promote it as an ironman match, but just a regular match with it going the marathon it would be more surprising?

duh nevermind Sorry, I never really paid attention to wcw back then. I would think Vince would use all his power to make wcw not get the Hulk Hogan name if he had an agreement with Marvel Comics. You saw how Vince went off on wcw for Razor Ramone and Diesel's characters.

So, I want to know how did wcw get to use Hulk Hogan from 1994-1996? Did they lease the name or something?

I think we might have to expect some storytelling of other things to set up SummerSlam. I just hope they don't go overboard with the overbooking of this match. We know it's not going to be a clean finish regardless as its a tv rule that matchs like this never end up clean(one time I wish I get amjorly swerved). I'll just take in the good amount of wrestling that should take place in the match. Well, I see Edge has taken out all of Evolution thus far ALONG with Benoit. What if Edge costs Triple H the match and we get Edge/Benoit title for title and they play up Edge watching Hogan/Warrior title for title at WM 6? I don't think Benoit/HHH is going to happen again at the ppv. They wouldn't give this away. It could also set up Trips/Edge if Trips goes over. I was thinking another scenario of Trips/Edge for the I-C title, while Orton gets a shot at Benoit's title. Orton takes the world title shot over the leader, while HHH retaliates by stating he will topple the man who defeated Orton for the I-C title to prove he is the leader? This may be too soon though.