Hunter's Torn Quad

In the first hour of WOL, Dave was talking about the number of buys for Hughes vs. Gracie, and said it was in the ballpark of domestic buys for WM XXII, which was around 580,000. Anything above 500,000 buys for UFC is great news.

USA wanted no part of the bad publicity. Raw was still on Spike TV when all this was going on. He wasn't brought back because he wasn't popular backstage and got an attitude. Spike TV had nothing to do with that. Spike TV, then. The reason remains the same. Spike didn't want the bad press associated with the gimmick. Hassan was going to headline Summerslam against Batista, and that was when Hassan had the same bad attitude. Everything got changed after the bad press in the aftermath of the mock beheading angle.

---Smackdown has completely turned into the JBL show. I've never seen an announcer become almost the entire show like that. When it's over, you don't remember the matches, but you remember the commentary. Da Meltz I don't watch Smackdown, so can any regular viewers comment on this?

-The main event is the four way with Samoa Joe vs. Sting vs. Scott Steiner vs. Christian Cage. Jeff Jarrett is NOT wrestling on the next PPV. Jarrett will be headlining the 8/13 PPV show against the winner of the four-way. Da Meltz

Dave talks about TNA having faced many crossroads during its lifetime, and notes the similarities between TNA’s last two years and ECW. They both had huge losses, though ECW never lost money at anything like the rate TNA did, and they both had the proverbial carrot dangled in front of them; getting TV, getting a better network, etc. Dave talked about TNA going through the same stages, such as getting on FSN and moving to Orlando with a more professional atmosphere, but with a bad timeslot. Then came the chance to be on prime time as part of the Best Damn Sports Show Period, but that fell apart due to disappointing ratings, and even with good ratings for the network and the slot they were in, FSN were never going to keep them unless TNA kept paying for their slot. Dave talked about TNA negotiating with WGN and Spike and that even though WGN offered them a prime time slot, it was on a poor network and that didn’t aggressively promote nationally, and that the deal falling apart at the last minute ended up being for the best. Dave talked about how today’s audience is limited to wrestling fans, with casual people not interested in wrestling at all. TNA can get as many as 2 million viewers a week for it’s free TV, but hasn’t been able to produce a product that can get any of those new viewers to into the habit of paying for the PPV’s. Dave said that without WWE leaving Spike, TNA might not be around today, and for sure would be losing money all over the place; the deal FSN wanted would have cost TNA around $1m a month. Impact is drawing the best ratings in TNA’s history, even better than Spike’s predictions, but when the move was made, if you told TNA they’d be getting mainly 1.0’s, they’d be disappointed. After steady growth in the early PPV’s, which peaked with the return of Sting, and which was counted on as the revenue stream to carry TNA, it’s going down. Dave said there are many factors involved. TNA events have gone from spectacular due to having great matches to ‘just’ good. Even though ECW is just WWE, the public see it as a new type of different brand, and that TNA has gone from being the alternative to being the ‘C’ company. The company’s fourth anniversary show was stuck between two big WWE PPV’s, both of which are likely to do an above average number of buys. A minor factor is WWE raising the price of its PPV’s, as people who are already feeling like they are paying too much for PPV’s are less likely to sample an alternative, and with even more PPV’s coming where even WWE can’t keep it’s numbers up, there isn’t much opportunity for growth for TNA. Dave says TNA can look elsewhere, such as overseas, but they lack that “big even” feel due to taping in what is a “glorified TV studio”, but even overseas they’ll be considered a secondary group with no big stars. Dave says that TNA can run shows in smaller venues, and with good pricing they can do good financially. Right now, there is now ‘carrot’ to dangle in front of TNA and it is just at a certain level, with no sign of decline, but no apparent chance for any real growth, either. There are no big personalities or ideas, and no special angles because everyone has seen everything, and nothing is taken seriously. Dave says that TNA needs to commit to a developmental system, saying that even though WWE doesn’t do so well with it’s developmental system, at least they have people that you can hope can be players somewhere down the road. Dave says there are some things that TNA could/should do: Move PPV’s to different arenas that are well lit, to give them a new look. They need to tape TV outside of Orlando from time to time; if an arena event looks like it’ll draw big and have a hot crowd, turn it into a taping. Dave thinks that, to keep expenses down, they should do that sort of thing every few tapings, and aim for major markets. TNA hosting TV’s or PPV’s from those markets, with hometown touches added, such as tie-ins with local sports stars , will give television a different feel, and can give the impression of a growing and successful company, which is important in a business where the perception can mean more than the reality. By running fewer events, TNA are able to hit markets harder than they normally would. Things like this won’t turn things around, and the difference to the bigger picture would be minor, but it will give the image of a company that has fans everywhere, rather than the image of “amusement park wrestling”. It’s not a new idea for TNA to hold a PPV outside of Orlando, as it has been seriously talked about, with Detroit a possible venue for Bound For Glory, after the first TNA show there drew 3,170 paid. Slammiversary: Drew 900 with more than 600 turned away. The crowd was good, but also tired; they like the wrestlers but have just seen too much. Dave notes that the “This is awesome” chant has become a cliché and that it no longer means the match actually is awesome. It was the usual good matches, with nothing off-the-charts, the big spots getting huge reactions, and a huge reaction for the title change at the end. Dave said there wasn’t a lot of negative to say about the show, apart from Earl Hebner becoming a heel referee, which Dave called lame and outdated. Says WWE has an excuse for redoing Montreal, because certain people there have an obsession about it that will seemingly never die, but TNA doing it just makes them look Indy-level, and the fans hate it anyway. Jim Cornette will be the babyface spokesperson to feud with Jarrett over power. The core fans hate the idea of Jeff Jarrett as champion again. Christian was not a success as champion. If Jarrett’s role is to be the guy people really hate with Joe, who the people really like and believe in, being the chasing babyface, then it could be a good thing, but they don’t need to rush that program. However, if it’s just to set up Jarrett vs. Sting for the rest of the year without Joe being put in the top spot, then this whole thing will get TNA nowhere. Called Styles/Daniels vs. AMW the showstealer, and said the current plan is for Styles and Daniels to be the perennial babyface championship tag team. Christian was meant to hold the NWA belt until at least December. Questioned where to go with Sting, as he’s not the special star he needs to be, and he’s now the big star in the small promotion, and TNA draws about the same with him as they would without him. Noted that his deal is up at the end of the year, and that big decisions have to be made by all concerned if Sting is to come back when the deal expires. Dave says that losing Sting will be a problem for the company from a perception standpoint if Joe isn’t established as the top guy in the promotion when Sting leaves, and it that perception problem won’t be helped if they can’t bring in Goldberg to fill the ‘star power’ void if Sting leaves. Said Victory Road will be “more of the same”, with the matches set for it being; A four-way with the winner meeting Jarrett in the main event, Styles/Daniels and their mystery woman, who may be called Xenya, in something of a Chyna-like female monster role, taking on AMW and Gail Kim, where the tag titles might be on the line, Team 3D and Brother Runt vs. The James Gang and Abyss, and Raven vs. Larry Zbyszko in a hair vs.’ hair match. Team 3D vs. The James Gang: ***1/4. Ray cannot say “Devon, get the tables”, because of legal threats from WWE who consider it their intellectual property. Rhino vs. Bobby Roode and Scott D’Amore: **1/4. Dave joked that after Rhino ran the ropes so well for a guy his size, that he had to run so slow so as not to catch D’Amore when he went after him. The Six-Way X-Division rankings match: ***1/4. Dave commented on that it appears that Joe, Daniels and Styles have been moved on from the X-Division. Kevin Nash vs. Chris Sabin: **. Dave said that Nash did the right kind of match, and with Nash going over, he did all he could to make the match work. Said it was a killer visually, and that Sabin does not have the superstar credibility to overcome that. The idea is for the program to end with Nash putting Sabin over . AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels vs. AMW: ***3/4. Cornette being introduced: Said Cornette did a good promo and got a good reaction, but it paled after seeing him in ROH, where he’s treated like a legend and his promo’s are better. Said the TNA fans knew him and treated him like a star, but the reaction wasn’t at the level it usually is for a new superstar. Samoa Joe vs. Scott Steiner: ***1/4. Dave doesn’t think they wanted Steiner to tap to the choke, and Steiner wasn’t comfortable, due to his injuries, in taking the muscle buster. Steiner had no problems putting Joe over. King of the Mountain: ***. Dave called the match long and unfocused, and while people knew the rules, they couldn’t follow them. Dave said the crowd wasn’t as hot as you’d hope for them to be for a main event, which Dave said was a combination of the crowd being drained from waiting so long in the sun to get in and because they were deep into a show and Joe vs. Steiner was the real main event. They went off the air unsure what was happening about the title but the impression was Jarrett was the new champion. Dave said it was better reading about the match than watching it because it was overbooked. Dave said it’s easy to make Hebner a heel, but the remake of Survivor Series comes across as “dated, overdone and pathetic”. Dave said the effort was there, but he can only “view it as the wrong kind of taste as the final emotion after a good show. Other news: A big fourth anniversary part was held be Jeff Jarrett after the taping on 6/19, with almost everyone there. They were watching Raw and Cornette cut a promo about the mentality of getting wrestling over by showing male ass. Cornette was said to be enthusiastic about being there. This past weekend, the wrestlers were tested for HIV and Hepatitis. In the wording when announcing the test, in big bolded letters, it said: THIS IS NOT A DRUG TEST. The testing was done because TNA does a lot of blood, and they may be going into states where testing is required. Terry Taylor, presumably on orders from above, has been trying to talk the wrestlers into signing new deals. Ron Killings has signed one. Sen She and Homicide are questioning TNA handling their Indy bookings. Both have made their own schedules for so long that they are not wanting to give that up. Homicide is trying to get a deal where he’ll list the promoters he won’t work for due to prior bad experiences. There is heat amongst the wrestlers over the booking team putting Jamie D, the mystery woman, with Styles and Daniels, with the feeling being that they are already having great matches and having the Jamie will only drag them down. Dave said the big negative right off the bat is that she comes across too much like Chyna. Jamie D won TNA’s Gut Check in 2004, which is their version of Tough Enough, and is a trainee of Scott D’Amore so it’s another D’Amore deal. TNA made a shirt for Alex Shelly to wear, and after he refused to wear it because he didn’t like it, Dutch Mantell and then Jeff Jarrett told him he had to wear it anyway. Brian Lee and Missy Hyatt were at the tapings. Lee was looking for work, while Hyatt was describe as thin, not her usual self, and acting like she didn’t want to be seen. Homicide will get a big singles match against Ron Killings at the next set of tapings, as his showcase match to show TNA what he can do. Stars from the Beverly Hillbillies-type show that will be lead-in for Impact shortly were in the front row of the tapings. Spike brought them to the taping as a means to use Impact to get the new show going. Kid Romeo was also looking for work. Because he’s now an exterminator in real life, he was pitching that to be his gimmick. He was pitching it to Jeff Jarrett in front of the wrestlers, and it appeared that Jarrett was getting Romeo all wound up to amuse the wrestlers, by giving ideas like Romeo could call the different X-Division wrestlers insects and he’d wear his uniform as his gimmick saying he was going to exterminate them. Mark Johnson was told by Dutch Mantell that Dixie Carter wanted him out of the shorts, but then Jeff Jarrett, who is friends with Johnson, told him they were ok. He wasn’t wearing them at the PPV but was wearing them at TV. Johnson’s idea was to do a soccer referee gimmick, where he’d give people yellow cards and red cards, and also do instant replay calls for controversial decisions. When that got turned down, he began pushing to become a manager. Elix Skipper and David Young were told they likely won’t be used again until the end of summer. The Naturals will be doing a series of boot camp vignettes with Shane Douglas, and will be getting a new look, including haircuts, and will be pushed as heels, and hopefully will be able to work with Styles and Daniels down the line. In recapping the TV tapings, Dave said it appeared like the Cornette/Jarrett deal is an attempt to recreated Austin/McMahon, but with the promotion and Cornette being the babyfaces. Sonjay Dutt was working injured during the three-way where Joe lost the X-Division title, but was added so that Joe didn’t have to do a job.

How did he even get that much power anyways? Look, the guy was a fantastic promo and loaded with charisma but what makes him so damn high up in the charts that he can bury an entire brand? I could understand it from Dunn, Stephanie, Hunter or Ace but Hayes? What puts him over other agents? Hayes is allied with Gewirtz in that they both head up Raw and hate Heyman and don't want ECW to get over on Raw in any way. Hayes is the one who pushed for the Sabu tapout finish in his match with Cena at Vengeance, and got his way, changing the original finish on the day of the PPV.

Angle's taking time off to heal, so it makes more sense for Cena to interfere, especially after Monday.

And reputable posters like Gogo to bring it to us.

You just know Michael Hayes will be pushing for Edge to beat Van Dam just to further stick the knife into ECW's rotting corpse.

Meltzer says UFN V drew a 1.4

You'd go nuts too if the reality outside of your bubble didn't fit in with the fantasy inside the bubble.

Kenta Kobashi Toshiaki Kawada Mitsuharu Misawa Shinya Hashimoto

USA wanted no part of the bad publicity.

You're not going to make the big bucks or draw the big gates just with wrestling ability. Wrestling ability will only get you so far.

I haven't seen you post much lately, and for a while now, so I don't really have much of an opinion on you currently. I know you used to know your stuff and contributed to the wrestling forums. We need more people like that.

The most important thing isn’t wrestling ability or working hard. The most important thing is the ability to get the crowd involved in your matches. Whether it’s by some fancy spot, mic work or mannerisms, you have to be able to get the crowd involved in your match. You can have all the wrestling ability in the world, but if you cannot do the little things, no matter what they are, to get the crowd into your match, then you’re just a guy in tights doing a bunch of moves.

Tito Ortiz vs. Dana White. Not that it'll ever see the light of day, but put the thing on PPV and you're talking gangbuster numbers.

See if my opinion has changed. All criticism will be constructive. And if it can’t be, I’ll just play it safe and ignore you.

They turned Orton far too soon, and when they did turn him they had him stop doing all the things that made the fans cheer him in the first place. If Orton was to turn face, it should have been after a prolonged tease to where the fans were begging for it, and after that he should have been pretty much the same character he was before. The fans didn't reject Orton because of what he did. The fans rejected him because of what he didn't do.

--The feeling this week, and this was strong, even though it changes daily, is that Vince McMahon is taking full control of ECW and taking it in his direction after giving Paul Heyman a measure of power last week.

--Raw Monday night fell slightly to a 4.0 rating. That is the average for the show on a loaded up card that was expected to do closer to recent high numbers than average. Women viewership was up, male viewership was way down. And you're surprised?

Latest WO.com update says it's Kurt Angle. He's taking time off to heal up.

Fans are fans are fans. Not all 'smarks', and I hate labels like that, lilke the same things, and nor do all 'marks' like the same things. There is no more of a difference between the two groups than there is between any two fans picked at random. They're all different, no matter what label people choose to put on them.

Wasn't Hardys/Edge and Christian Ladder Match at No Mercy 99? He's talking about the UK PPV called No Mercy.