Hunter's Torn Quad
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Blog Comments posted by Hunter's Torn Quad
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This isn't anything new and the TNA folder isn't exempt, however, the WWE folder seems to be nothing but "new" posters bickering. Most of the TSM regulars don't even bother to post in that folder anymore. Instead, it's a bunch of people with usernames that I don't recognize that have only been registered for a month or two. How long has that been going on? Maybe that has something to do with the folder being the drizzling shits? I don't care to read most of the opinions because I don't know any of the people making them. When someone posts for awhile, you know if you generally agree or disagree with the shit that they're spewing. That's part of the reason why I like the TNA folder so much lately....that would also explain why my ignore list is longer now than it's ever been.
The WWE folder always had a limited number of people who knew what they were talking about, but even that number has now dropped. The vast majority of people who post in there either don't know what they are talking about, or, and this worse, think they know what they are talking about. Today, you had some idiot bringing up threads that were almsot four years old. That's standard procedure when it comes to idiocy in that forum. The only quality posters who still post there on any kind of regular basis do so mostly to make fun of the majority of the posters, who are so large in numbers, if not volume, that it's too large a tide of stupidity to fight against, so it's easier to just pick them apart.
...that would also explain why my ignore list is longer now than it's ever been.I've lost count of mine.
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Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Suck – Part 16
Sting v Sid Vicious – WCW Halloween Havoc 1990
This match is pretty infamous, not because of the quality, though that aspect of it is infamous in its own right. It’s infamous for having an almost legendary finish to it, one that people would remember for a long time to come.
If you want a move by move account of this match, you’ll be disappointed because there are only so many times I can type punch and kick before I get writer’s cramp. Indeed, this match was festival of the most basic and mundane of wrestling moves, with nothing but kicks, punches, one nerve hold, and the weakest and lamest looking choke hold on record being used. The only exciting moves of the whole match were a plancha from Sting onto Sid, and a running dive from Sting from the ramp over the top rope and onto Sid. If it weren’t for those two moves, this hideous contest would have been completely devoid of any excitement or life whatsoever, because this was just a terrible match, and one of the worst major World Title matches of all time.
There’s nothing more to say about the body of the match, because there was almost nothing to the body of the match, so we’ll skip right to the finish.
Sting and Sid battled into the aisleway that was off to the side of the ring, and Ric Flair and Arn Anderson came out and distracted the referee while Sting and Sid fought to the back. After a few moments, Sting and Sid returned, and once the match got back in the ring, Sting picked Sid up for a bodyslam, but Sid fell on top of the World Champion, the referee made a three count, and we had a new World Champion
Or did we ?
Some fans popped, some were visibly puzzled by what was happening, and as the rather modest fireworks shot off and balloons fell from the ceiling, Sid celebrated with the World Title belt. Suddenly Sting appeared in the aisleway with a large rope around one wrist, and the announcers were openly asking what was going on. Sting hit the ring, nailed Sid with the World title belt, hit a Stinger Splash, and rolled Sid up with a small package as the referee made a second three count, and this time Sting was declared the winner.
What was going on ?
Thankfully the reply was able to tell us what happened, because the announcers didn’t seem to have a clue. The ‘Sting’ that got pinned by Sid was in fact a fake Sting (yes, the fake Sting angle is a lot older than most realize), who turned out to be Barry Windham, and the real Sting was, presumably, tied up in the back while this was going on. Anyway, Sting broke free, came face to face with Barry Sting in the aisleway, before hitting the ring, hitting Sid with the title belt, and getting the win with a small package.
Rating: This was absolute crap. Sting was never great, but he was decent. However, he was nowhere near good enough to carry Sid, who was his usual terrible self in this match. If you want to see a textbook example of a terrible match with terrible booking, then this is one for you. Otherwise, don’t waste your time. This is Wrestlecrap material.
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He was Ignored ages ago. That clown has no grasp of things like logic or common sense.
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A lot of people have this very distorted view of what Hulk Hogan actually means to the general public. It's almost disturbing.
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I can see why they think that. They're just not seeing the big picture and are too focused on 'Monty is the future of TNA, so give him the belt right now'.
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WWE business in the early-mid 90's dropped because they didn't create new stars that appealed to the fans, so it was hard to keep the momentum from the 80s going. Going the kiddy route of the Godwins, Doink, et. al. just started to bury them. At this time they moved to more PPV's a year, which certainly didn't help things. Meanwhile, popular culture was about 2 things - rap and grunge, both of which had an edge the WWE didn't have nor wanted to have. I don't think steroids had a lot to do with it. That's my perspective, maybe there's something I don't know here.I think Vince should take a lot of the blame when things like this happen, because he sets the standards and he could *easily* stop a lot of it right now by implementing certain measures. But that's ethics we're talking about, and Vince doesn't see wrestlers as people. But while a lot of it is on Vinces shoulders, steroids is found in every sporting competition for a reason, and its the same reason its found in wrestling - to get a leg up on the competition, or to keep up with the competition. In wrestling, which is such a visual medium, its important to look bigger and stronger, because people will believe you are bigger and stronger without having to even watch you wrestle. So it's inevitable. Even without Vince, there would be steroid use. I just don't think it would be as rampant as it is today. And the fact that Vince could stop it if he wanted to puts responsibility on him when he doesn't, even while dead bodies pile around him. Inaction, in this case, is just as bad as action. Even though he doesn't force anyone to use them, he doesn't say not to - and when he pushes guys who use, it certainly doesn't say not to.
But then again, Vince is probably looking at himself and saying "I'm not dead yet and I've taken roids for decades, so it can't be the roids..."
WWE business in the early-mid 90's dropped because they didn't create new stars that appealed to the fans, so it was hard to keep the momentum from the 80s going. Going the kiddy route of the Godwins, Doink, et. al. just started to bury them. At this time they moved to more PPV's a year, which certainly didn't help things. Meanwhile, popular culture was about 2 things - rap and grunge, both of which had an edge the WWE didn't have nor wanted to have. I don't think steroids had a lot to do with it. That's my perspective, maybe there's something I don't know here.I think that could have been done by both educating the fans to accept non-roided up people as top guys, and those fans accepting that mindset. That would have taken time, and neither Vince nor the fans in general have the time. The lack of bodies absolutely had an affect, simply because for years the fans were told over and over again that big equated to talent. That was something that Vince didn't want to change and the fans weren't able or willing to reject, without time, and neither party was willing or able to take the time.
Vince could do so much good to stop this sort of thing tomorrow if he wanted to, but he won't. Like you said, he doesn't see wrestlers has people or human beings. He sees them as a toy to use and play with to make money, and if that toy breaks, then he'll toss them in the garbage and go to work with a new toy.
But then again, Vince is probably looking at himself and saying "I'm not dead yet and I've taken roids for decades, so it can't be the roids..."It's either that, or he flat out doesn't care if his wrestlers die or not. I don't know which one is scarier.
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You didn't explain why Austin was such a success. Or Flair. Neither had bodies that abused steroids.And I'm in the thought that business was down after the steroid trial because of bad publicity, not because there weren't big roided up fellows. You have no proof that fans were turned off my lack of big guys. Stop acting like your opinion is fact.
I have no idea why you want to point the finger at anyone in this instance. Maybe it makes you feel better, who knows. You are being a complete jackass about this though. It just doesn't make sense to blame the fans of a product where they are basically told what to cheer and what not to cheer.
You didn't explain why Austin was such a success. Or Flair. Neither had bodies that abused steroids.Read above. As MisawaGQ said, personality and charisma. I also explained more on that.
And I'm in the thought that business was down after the steroid trial because of bad publicity, not because there weren't big roided up fellows. You have no proof that fans were turned off my lack of big guys. Stop acting like your opinion is fact.Bad press might have some impact, but when the jacked up bodies disappeared, it wasn't a coincidence that business started falling. Fans absolutely were turned off by the lack of big guys. Did wrestling fans suddenly care in droves what the press thought of them? They didn't before. I'm acting like my opinion is fact because, in this case, it is. The lack of jacked up bodies, that the fans had been educated for years equated ability and star power, disappearing had the more impact on business than the bad press.
I have no idea why you want to point the finger at anyone in this instance. Maybe it makes you feel better, who knows. You are being a complete jackass about this though. It just doesn't make sense to blame the fans of a product where they are basically told what to cheer and what not to cheer.Maybe because I'd like even just person to stop and care about what wrestlers do to themselves so that that fan can get his jollies when watching wrestling. If that makes me a jackass, then God Bless being a jackass. Fans might be told what to cheer and not cheer for, but there are those who don't just blindly accept that and have brains of their own. If only more fans were like that.
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I don't think the fans care. The WWE made more money riding Steve Austin than they did with anyone else. Austin wasn't exactly jacked up. And really, for every Batista, there's a Warlord or Hercules, who were jacked up, but had no charisma or personality. That's ultimately what gets the guy over. The steroid freak trend is here because Vince and others have a hard-on for it. And they will only present what THEY think passes for entertaining wrestling, not anyone else.I don't think the fans care.They don't. The majority don't give a shit what wrestlers put in their bodies to get the look that the fans want their wrestlers to have. They don't care what wrestlers do to their bodies night after night to entertain them. They don't care that a wrestler ruins his family and life to entertain them. For the vast majority, all the fans give a shit about is what a wrestler can do to entertain them, and if the wrestler shortens their life, fucks up their body, or loses their life, who cares? Certainly not the fans. As long as they get their yucks, they don't give a fuck what happens to the wrestlers.
...but had no charisma or personality. That's ultimately what gets the guy over.True, but a guy with 'that' type of body and look will get so many more chances than a more talented wrestler who doesn't have that look. Look how many chances they gave Triple H. He didn't get over a lick before Mick Foley put him over clean for three months straight. If it wasn't for jacking himself up, Vince would have given up on him long before wanting Foley to put him over for so long. To a lesser extent, look at Billy Gunn. If he wasn't tall and had that body, they would have canned him long ago. Instead, they kept giving him chance after chance after chance. Eventually, the did give up, but they would have given up long before they did without that look.
The steroid freak trend is here because Vince and others have a hard-on for it. And they will only present what THEY think passes for entertaining wrestling, not anyone elseAnd maybe that might change if more than a few people on a message board told Vince loud and clear that a guy doesn't need to get jacked to the gills to be accepted in the top spot.
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So, when the next Eddie Guerrero happens, and you’re asking why it happened, do two things; take a look at Vince McMahon, and then take a look in the mirror. Because you’ll be looking at the two main causes, whether you can accept that or not.You forgot the third main cause: the wrestlers themselves. If you are going to blame the fans, there is no fucking way you can exclude it's ultimately the wrestler's choice.
It's bullshit for you to claim that the fans should be looking in the mirror and blaming themselves for Eddie's death. The responsibility is on the shoulders of the wrestlers. There are influences, yes, but come on now. Is it baseball fans faults for the steriod use, because they like homeruns? Is it an actress' fans fault if she is anorexic, because they love her?
You forgot the third main cause: the wrestlers themselves. If you are going to blame the fans, there is no fucking way you can exclude it's ultimately the wrestler's choice.Ultimately, yes, it is the wrestlers choice. But if Vince didn't demand a certain look that you cannot get without drugs, and that look is pretty much a requisite for getting a serious push and with it the money, and if the schedule wasn't as crazy as it is, which it doesn't need to be, would those wrestlers really put so many pills and needles into themselves? Some, maybe, but not all, and certainly a lot less then do so now.
It's bullshit for you to claim that the fans should be looking in the mirror and blaming themselves for Eddie's death. The responsibility is on the shoulders of the wrestlers. There are influences, yes, but come on now. Is it baseball fans faults for the steriod use, because they like homeruns? Is it an actress' fans fault if she is anorexic, because they love her?When WWF did legit steroid testing, and it was legit, those jacked up bodies disappeared, and business sank. You can talk about the bad publicity all you want, but the main reason business tanked was because those huge bodies that fans got weaned out were no longer there. If the fans were willing or able to look past the bodies, not just then but now, maybe, just maybe, Vince might not be so obsessed with wanting juiced up bodies in his top guys. If the fans made it clear that juiced up bodies weren't the primary attribute they wanted in top guys, then Vince might have been more open with having his top guys not having to have jacked up bodies. As it is, he had the proof right there in his books that told him fans wanted a certain kind of body in their top guys, a body that almost nobody can get without drugs. And if you can't blame fans for the consequences of what they want, who the hell can you blame?
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The steroid trend needs to end, but nothing short of government intervention will do it. I'd imagine that Vince is fully aware of the harms of steroid abuse, but he just doesn't care. The WWE will continue to push big, no-talent, roid freaks, which will force smaller guys to hit the juice. Steroid abuse is bad enough by itself, but add cocaine, painkillers and other drugs? It's almost like suicide. But hey, if the WWE hasn't shaped up yet, after many other deaths, they're not about to start now.Unless Vince has some kind of revelation, the steroid trend will never end. I don't even think Vince accepts that steroids do anything wrong, if only because he's been on them for so long and he's still alive. He probably sees this as proof that steroids are fine, and that if anyone died because of steroids, he no doubt convinces himself that it was either a fluke or it had to be something else they were taking. Vince made his money off of steroids, and he'll never accept what the true cost of that was, because he would have to accept the role he played in that cost, and he can't, because of how significant a role it was.
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I emailed Meltzer about this, but do the families get anything after a wrestler dies? Do they have insurance plans? Will the WWE take care of Eddies family? I don't mean for a life time, but will there any aid given in general?I remember they paid the next year of Pillman's contract to his family, but I think that was it. I don't think, legally speaking, WWE have any obligation to pay the families of anybody on their roster if they die.
I remember UFC used to have a clause in their contracts, and I don't know if they still have it, that if a fighter died in a fight that their family would get $25,000.
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It's a sad part of the business that really doesn't need to exist but it's a part that we can no longer escape from.We lost a good one with Eddie Guerrero but to say it's surprising, is denying the harsh reality we must accept.
It's a sad part of the business that really doesn't need to exist but it's a part that we can no longer escape from.And we never will. When Scott Hall got chance after chance, it was a very public acknowledgement from people that it doesn't matter how screwed up you can get, if we can make money from you we'll use you. Not that Eddie was that bad, but he was one of the lucky ones.
We lost a good one with Eddie Guerrero but to say it's surprising, is denying the harsh reality we must accept.Eddie dying is a shock, because it happened out of nowhere, but it is no surprise. Someone with history, as sad is it seems, is someone you have to be aware of is more likely to die than someone else. Sadly, it's not the drugs he took that forced him having to go to rehab that did the most damage. And that means Eddie is not last of a long and tragic series of deaths.
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I watched both Ground Zero and Bad Blood main events today. GZ is a total clusterfuck, with overbooked nonsense, no wrestling and little if any psychology. BB is mostly Undertaker beating Shawn up, which he does do well, but that all gets negated when Shawn does his usual deal of no-selling everything when he kips up. Once he kips up, it’s like nothing happened because none of the last fifteen or twenty minutes gets sold a lick. The one thing both matches have is Shawn’s usual stupid bumps that are more pratfall bumps than credible bumps, and the GZ match saw a forerunner of Shawn’s bump from the Hogan match where he gets his head rammed into the turnbuckle and did a rolling senton, but the earlier version just saw Shawn fly off and fall on his face. None of these matches are great, or even good, and are definitely nowhere close to being great.
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That makes Booker even more of a pussy, because he stopped complaining and is just taking it. To the average WWE fan, Sharmell pussywhipped Booker into submission. And she did. WWE fans want guys to turn heel because they want to or because they feel betrayed, not because the guys wife thinks so.
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gWIL doesn't get that his idea is a bad one?I don't think he gets many things. Logic, common sense, a good reception on the tin foil hat he likes to wear.
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Although we know have a front runner for second place.
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Dr Heiney
Vince, if you want to jerk off, do it in private. Don’t make the viewing public suffer through you self-indulgent, egotistical, masturbatorial fantasies.
Jose-Luis Rivera
A solid hand.
Barry O
Barry looked like he could have been a decent opening match heel. I’d have put him just above jobber status.
Iron Mike Sharpe
A good heel jobber.
Barry Horowitz
What idiot came up with trying to make something out of Horowitz? Was only ever good enough to be fodder.
Jim Powers
Nice body, shame about the absolute lack of talent.
Salvatore Bellomo
I’ll remember him most for that Piper’s Pit, and for doing that Gladiator gimmick on the Indy scene later on in his career.
Sharmell in her current role
Sharmell will get over a lot in the role of the mouthy woman, because a lot of the WWE audience hates that sort of character. Booker will probably end up with no heat because those same fans treat men who take that sort of thing as total pussies.
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Dr. HeineyThat was Vince during that beyond terrible JR skit, right?
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Fishyswa is officially the dumbest person on the TSM wrestling forum.
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Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Suck – Part 14
The Master Blasters v Brad Armstrong and Tim Horner – Clash Of The Champions XII
This match was the big debut of the Masters Blasters, Steel and Iron, who had been hyped up in series of vignettes with them walking around a junkyard, presumably to show how tough they were. The Masters Blasters were WCW’s attempt to create a copy of the Road Warriors, who had walked out on the promotion earlier in the year due to a contract dispute with Jim Herd, and the Blasters were made up of Kevin Nash (yes, that Kevin Nash) and Al Greene (who went on to be The Dog in WCW in 2000).
Like true jobbers, Armstrong and Horner come to the ring first, leaving everyone buzzing over the first wrestling appearance of The Master Blasters. The first appearance isn’t a good one, because the Master Blasters look terrible just coming to the ring, because their ring attire consists of tight leather pants, and, in the case of Steel (Nash) a comical Mohawk, all of which was made worse by the fact that the Blasters had been made up to look like they had a months worth of dirt on them, and their faces had been spraypainted all sorts of dark colors. Needless to say, any faint hopes had of these two replacing the Road Warriors were soon gone.
The match itself was another comic adventure, because it was a total disjointed mess. Twice Iron and Steel would hoist Horner up onto their shoulders in a fireman’s carry position, parade around with him, only to rather clumsily dump him in their corner with all the force of a geriatrics punch. The funniest part of the match, unintentionally, saw Iron go for a diving headbutt on a downed Horner, only to somehow fall short, and he had to gently tap his head against Horner, rather than execute the move he was trying to go for. Needless to say, the crowd booed and jeered this, and the Master Blasters credibility, what they had anyway, was gone.
Another amusing spot saw them whip Horner into the ropes for a double elbow, but instead of Steel kneeling down so he and Iron’s elbows struck Horner at about the same level, Iron, who was a good few inches shorter than Steel, was the one who knelt down, so that move looked stupid too.
Finally, thankfully, and with much mercy, this horrid affair was brought to an end with a double flying shoulderblock by the Blasters on Horner, and they got the win.
Rating: Just terrible. It was clear as day from the opening bell that Steel didn’t really know what he was doing in there, and Iron wasn’t much better. They were lost in there, even with two veterans like Armstrong and Horner to lead them through things, and, as such, their big debut fell flatter than Gwen Stefani’s chest.
Yea, Though I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Suck – Part 15
Sid Vicious v The Nightstalker – Clash Of The Champions XIII
This match is legendary for being one of the worst matches in WCW/NWA history, and was the worst one until the likes of Hogan v Warrior II graced our screens.
The Nightstalker was Bryan Clarke, who went on to gain fame as Adam Bomb and as one half of Kronik. At this stage of the game, he wasn’t the sharpest tool in the draw, and against someone like Sid, it didn’t take the Genius Lanny Poffo to deduce that something bad was going to happen.
And boy did it happen and then some.
After some terrible brawling, the match went to a corner with Sid choking Nightstalker, before they rather clumsily, and for no apparent reason, switched positions with Nightstalker now doing the choking. This was followed by perhaps the weakest, most lamest, most feeble looking nerve hold in recorded wrestling history. Working on Vicious’ lung which had been punctured the year before, Nightstalker then began to pinch Vicious’ side. I don’t know what he was thinking, but this looked terrible, and the only pain inflicted was upon the fans having to sit through such horrible ‘wrestling’. The fans in attendance weren’t shy in letting them know they hated this, and began booing quite loudly.
Somewhere in here The Big Cat (Mr. Hughes) came to ringside, and distracted Sid, and, as the two grappled, Nightstalker grabbed the big ax that he brought to ring with him, and went for Sid from behind. Having half the brain that Nightstalker has, Vicious moved out of the way, and Nightstalker dropped the ax as he collided with Big Cat. Sid then grabbed the ax, and as Nightstalker staggered back, Sid very gently hit Nightstalker in the throat with the head of the ax, which saw Nightstalker drop like a stone, and Sid covered to get the pin. At this point, Big Cat hit the ring, and he and Nightstalker, who jumped right back up from the ax shot, began double teaming Sid with some of the worst offense I’ve ever seen. Rather quickly, thankfully, Sid rolled from the ring to get a chair, and Nightstalker and Cat left the ring, and this debacle was over.
Rating: You don’t know what a bad match is until you’ve watched this terrible display. I don’t know how long Clarke had been wrestling at this point, but he was nowhere near being good enough to get a good match out of Sid, and unless you want to expose Sid for being the shitty worker that he is, you have to put him in the ring with great workers or jobbers who can bump like crazy in order to get anything watchable out of him. And Bryan Clarke fit neither of those bills, and as such, along with Clarke being as green as a green thing can be, this match was beyond horrible, and will always have a spot in the Black Hole of Suck Hall of Shame.
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HTQ agreed with the full monty (*****) for Joe/Kobashi, but I know your standards are a bit more strict.My standards are strict too. Check out when we talked about Kobashi versus Misawa from 2003 and Kobashi versus Akiyama from last year.
I'm not saying you aren't strict HTQ, hell, you say 6/3/94 is overrated. However as a whole, I feel MisawaGQ is a bit stricter from the few posts I've read from him.
I don't think I can call 6/94 overrated, because that's such a harsh term. It's a really great match. I just don't think of it as the all-time greatest match that almost everone else thinks it is.
Now, Razor versus Shawn II? That is overrated.
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I think Fishyswa is really Vince Russo.
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HTQ agreed with the full monty (*****) for Joe/Kobashi, but I know your standards are a bit more strict.My standards are strict too. Check out when we talked about Kobashi versus Misawa from 2003 and Kobashi versus Akiyama from last year.
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Did you see the other 2 Punk/Joe matches and what did you rate them?I've not seen the first, but I have seen the third. I didn't think it was as good as the second. I'd call it ****, maybe.
TSM brings the lack of smarts
in Straight Shooting
A blog by Hunter's Torn Quad
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And people who saw the first thread he made on it wondered why it got deleted. It's the same guy who people, one of whom may have been you, called out on being a terrible speller/typer.