RavishingRickRudo

Chris Leben Vs Joe Doerksen http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16W5OL2N *Awesome, competitive, action-packed fight between two 185 pounders. Leben is a fringe top 10'er and Doerkson is competitive with just about everyone and a slick ground fighter.* Babalu Vs Shogun http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16JJ92C0 *From the IFC: Global Domination LHW tournament, Babalu had just went the distance with Trevor Prangley and Shogun beat Eric Wanderlei in the first round. Today, these are two top ten guys, possibly two top fivers. Babalu is the number 1 contender to Chuck Liddells LHW title, and Shogun won the GP last year. UFC 38 - Ian Freeman vs Frank Mir http://www.megaupload.com/?d=188VT9B3 *Frank Mir was a prospective heavyweight the UFC was hoping to groom and Freeman was the hometown underdog. Bushido7 Gomi Vs Azeredo http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16FS8VBQ *These two had 2 great fights in 2005, this one having one of the more brutal finishes you'd see. Matt Hughes vs Frank Trigg I:NEW http://rapidshare.de/files/1683543/Matt_Hu..._Trigg.wmv.html Matt Hughes vs Frank Trigg II: NEW http://rapidshare.de/files/2340894/Matt_Hu...hlight.wmv.html *Two great matches, especially when watching them back-to-back and seeing how the second fight plays off the first one. One of the top moments of 2005 happened in the second fight. Minotauro vs Bob Sapp: NEW http://rapidshare.de/files/2340635/minotau...do_ufc.wmv.html *I believe this was the FOTY in 2002, and solidified Nog into one of the greatest fighters of all time. Minotauro vs Sergei Kharitonov http://www.megaupload.com/?d=16SDGLZ4 *This is not necessarily essential viewing, but it's one of the better HW fights in the past few years. UFC 22 Only One Champ - Frank Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz http://www.megaupload.com/?d=186UGALS *For a while this was considered thee greatest UFC fight of all time, and perhaps still holds that position. Story-wise, it's tremendous, as Tito had a history with the Lions Den and came in bigger and stronger than Frank, but Frank had more experience and a better strategy and better conditioning. Imanari vs Hansen http://rapidshare.de/files/3127167/Bushido...Hansen.WMV.html *Imanari has awesome leglocks and Hansen has great knees. I luv this one. 11)George St.Pierre Vs Jay Heiron (UFC 4Cool http://www.megaupload.com/?d=22VXRZFT *Watch GSP destroy Heiron. Listen to Joe Rogan try to ignore GSP's shitkicking and continue sucking Heirons cockle. 22)George St.Pierre Vs Matt Hughes (UFC 50) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=35EX7ZTQ *This was a fight for the vacated WW title. It was GSP's third fight in the UFC. 30)Fedor Emelianenko Vs Kevin Randleman (Pride HwGp04) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=30VOZWZ2 31)Fedor Emelianenko Vs Mark Coleman (Pride HwGp04) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32VRVKV6 *Fedor is God. 35)Quinton Jackson Vs Shogun Rua (Pride MwGp05) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=22PBE5GN *Shoguns first fight in the MW GP of last year. Rampage had been a top 5 fighter at the time and Shogun wasn't even in the top ten. 47)Shogun Rua Vs Gono (Pride Bushido 2) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=321HHPNL *Shoguns first PRIDE fight. Gono is a very good stand up fighter, and Shogun is nuts. 49)Caol Uno Vs Joachim Hansen (K-1 Hero's 1) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=35X7KKJA *Many people had this as the FOTY last year, and last year was STACKED. 68)Bas Rutten Vs Frank Shamrock (King Of Pancrase) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=38GBDCT7 *An awesome fight between two legends in the sport. 102)Chuck Liddel Vs Vernon White (UFC 49) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=327VSP91 *This was one of my favourite fights from 2004, just a fun lil match. 107)B.J. Penn Vs Matt Hughes (UFC 46) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32CQT3CD *BJ was moving up in weight and Hughes was an unstoppable champion. 110)Kazushi Sakuraba Vs Quinton Jackson (Pride 15) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=32JPD862 *Rampages first PRIDE fight and Saku was coming off a brutal loss to Wanderlei Silva. Two Words: Power. Bomb. 116)Vanderlei Silva Vs Yuki Kondo (Pride GP 2004 Finals) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=39WTJILT *If there is one thing Wanderlei Silva can do, it is destroy Japanese Fighters Who are Smaller than him. 117)Shogun Rua Vs Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.Pt.1 (Pride Cc MwGp05) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=35PQI5QA 118)Shogun Rua Vs Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.Pt.2 (Pride Cc MwGp05) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=41JBGLRA *From the quarter finals of last years MW GP, a FOTYC, very competitive, back-and-forth, action everywhere. Chute Boxe vs. Brazilian Top Team. 119)Antonio Rogerio Nogueira Vs Dan Henderson (Pride Te MwGp05) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=428M9YHT *Dan had beaten Rogerios brother before, though Minotauro was able to win the rematch. This was in the first round of the MW GP. 138)Randy Couture Vs Chuck Liddel 1 (UFC 43) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=39B1MONW *Randy had come off two straight losses in the HW division, while Chuck Liddell was building lots of momentum with wins over Babalu, Belfort, Randleman, etc. Tito was refusing to fight Chuck, so this fight was set up to crown an interim champion. The idea was Chuck beats Randy, Chuck has Titos belt, Chuck and Tito fight to unify. Well, Randy had another idea. 140)Fedor Emelianenko Vs Gary Goodrige (Pride MwGp2003) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=40WVGYYK 144)Fedor Emelianenko Vs Naoya Ogawa (Pride HwGp2004) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=43SJN6ZX 145)Fedor Vs Heath Herring (Pride 23) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=43EEWIGO *I <3 Fedor 146)Tito Ortiz Vs Vitor Belfort (UFC 51) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=434QB8GN *Ortiz and Belfort were supposed to fight at UFC 33 in UFC's first show in Vegas. Belfort pulled out citing injury, it took 31/2 years for them to get them in the ring together, with both guys trying to make their way back up the rankings. 148)Don Frye Vs Takayama (Pride 21) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=438YOQR0 *Ever see a hockey fight? Ever see a hockey fight, on CRACK? 151)Chuck Liddel Vs Renato Sobral (UFC 40) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=40JXQPMN *Putting this up just cause they're going to fight eachother within the next few months. 157)Vanderlei Silva Vs Mark Hunt (Pride Shockwave 2005) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=431UPFGP *Really good fight and a rare case of Silva being the smaller man. 158)David loiseau Vs Charles McCarthy (UFC 53) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=40JNGZGK *This is shown all the time on SPIKE, but just in case, spinning back kick, flying knee. Fedor Doc (parts 1,2,3) http://files.filefront.com/Fedor_Doc_1/;42...;/fileinfo.html http://files.filefront.com/Fedor_doc_2/;42...;/fileinfo.html http://files.filefront.com/fedor_prt_3/;42...;/fileinfo.html *It's a Japanese doc covering a Russian Fighter. But if U <3 Fedor, U will <3 to see him train ROCKY style. Sherk vs. GSP http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WW456GV2 Sean Sherk is one of the few fighters to take Matt Hughes the distance and give him a competitive fight in the octagon and came in with that as his only loss in over 40 fights. GSP fucks his shit up. Minotauro vs Crocop http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FYLAZHOW Kinda like Nog vs. Sapp, but with more kicks but the same amount of awesome. Minotauro vs Mark Coleman http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q4SJ077G Minotauro vs Groodidge http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=YUA0KMAO *Two fights to show how good and dangerous Nog is on the ground. Coleman has said that Nog had the strongest grip of anyone he has ever met - Coleman is an olympic level wrestler, btw. Goodridge is an armwrestling champion and another strong motherfucker. Just to put things in perspective. Minotauro vs Fedor Pride25 (2003) 1 round http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=4YGIOU9U 2 round http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=MQEQDQ5B 3 round http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=GIDKX8YA *Those matches above with Nog? They show how awesome he is. How he is the best heavyweight in the world. Well, before this fight he was. I've seen this fight maybe more than any other, and it never bores me. Minotauro vs Fedor Pride GP 2004 http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=IJU6ZF3T *The rematch. Minotauro vs Enson Inoue http://rapidshare.de/files/4703268/Minotau...e_2002.wmv.html *Enson said he would retire if he lost. He also has a habit of never quitting. Watch his head turn purple. Minotauro vs Schilt: http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=34I9M72T4S7RY2AMHUV3K3HQN4 *Schilt looks like Ivan Drago. Minotauro vs Dan Henderson (2nd) http://www.megaupload.com/pt/?d=YCP0ECQ4 *Awesome fight. That's all.

Hogan/Andre was the first match that made me question my then-current views. Then Benoit/Angle, and then Taker/Angle. A gradual process, always evolving.

BUT, what makes wrestling unique is that the goal is to be popular. Music, Art, Theatre, etc. has different objectives. I go deeper into this in my blog ... http://forums.thesmartmarks.com/index.php?...2&showentry=537 I would contend that Malenko/Benoit poorly worked that match because -instead of reacting to the crowd and changing up to be more appealing- they stuck with what they planned and the match failed. Who knows whether the crowd would have gotten more into it, but the fact is, they didn't even try to change it up. Stevie Richards and Tommy Dreamer went into a match where the crowd was dead and couldn't give a flying fuck about what they did and they ended up getting that crowd into it by stiffing each other with kendo stick shots. Benoit/Angle is the perfect example of two workers bring a dead crowd back to life. There are exceptions and I did mention that above, but I think those exceptions come after wrestlers have made different attempts to try and get the reluctant crowd back into it. MGQ's "rules" aren't useless, I think -however- in regards to sufficiency and relevance, they hold less weight than working the crowd (because that's the wrestlers' goals). The stuff MGQ lists in his standards, things like story and execution, are tools wrestlers use to work the crowd, so they are relevant, but only if they work the crowd or fail to. Andre/Hogan in ROH would be different because both Andre and Hogan were smart enough workers to know what would work for one audience may not work for another. That's why Hogan in Japan is different from Hogan in the states. Hogan would throw out things like chain wrestling and more technical stuff to a ROH audience. Whether the ROH audience would be receptive is another matter, but credit should go to Hogan for attempting to appeal to a different audience and adapting. ROH is an interesting matter and could warrant its own discussion in regards who is responsible for the environment which I despise so much.

Crowd heat is an indicator of the work done in the match. Something had to make the crowd hot, and the vast majority of the time, it's the wrestlers in the match. Sure there will be an exception to the rule, but for most part, it's the case that the crowd reacts to the match. Hogan/Andre started off with a hot crowd, and people will point and say "They had it easy, they could have done anything and the crowd would have reacted", which is just conjecture because it's very-well possible they could have killed the crowd if they performed poorly (which they didn't). If Hogan/Andre started off with a hot crowd and that crowd stayed the same or went down a bit in excitement, then the criticisms of the match in regards to pacing and moves would be valid because something had to have hurt the crowd and that reasonably could have been it. However, Andre/Hogan was able to work the crowd up into being MORE crazy, which is a reflection of good work and a good match. A "good" match with no crowd heat isn't a good match. It failed to do what a match is supposed to do. To me, if a match occured infront of no people -just two guys going through the motions leading to a pinfall- it, by definition, is not a wrestling match. The crowd is an integral element, otherwise it's just choreography.

I never said it was a very good match. It's not close to Misawa/Kobashi vs. Taue/Kawada. I don't think it is awful. I think the match was "good", I think it worked and accomplished everything they wanted to accomplish, I personally love the match and can and have watched it countless times because I thoroughly enjoy it. Does everyone have to like it? No. Does it deserve to be shit on? No. I think the two guys gave tremendous performances and they deserve credit for what they accomplished in that match. I think the way they varied their limited offense, the way Hogan sold, the way they built spots -these very simple spots- and were able to get so much out of them, I think they deserve soem credit for their work. I think they did probably the best job they could have done given each others' limitations, and the way they worked the crowd was very well done. I don't think it should written off as two guys who couldn't do a lot of moves and made for this awful match. I think, perspective-wise, that's looking at it the wrong way. If you watch this match and have a check-list by your side to tick off and because it didn't have this and this and this it was bad, then you shouldn't be watching this match, period.

Your whole argument is based around a fallacy. A lot of people thinking something is good, doesn't make it so. And regardless of that, I'm talking about the quality of the wrestling, bell to bell. Why should I care if the audience liked it? Why should anyone care? It's not fallacious because THE INTENT of the wrestlers is to make the audience like it, and it is obvious that the audience liked Hogan/Andre. They don't go out to have what you define as a "good wrestling match" yet you judge them using good wrestling match standards. That is unfair and unreasonable. You hold it against them that they used few holds, BUT IT WORKED, so how can you fault them for it? The "few holds" point is irrelevant in the context of the match. If the match failed to entertain the crowd, then you can say "the lack of holds hurt the match", but in this case and context, it clearly didn't. People have their own ideas of what good wrestling is. Some people don't care about Kurt Angle's shitty selling and match structure. So what am I going to do, force them to think it's important? It's only important when it's important. Kurt Angle has gotten by on what you call shitty selling and I can't think of a time when it severely hurt his matches and -in fact- it has more often than not helped him greatly. There is no need to force people to think something is important, usually if it's important then it's pretty recognizable because the live crowd doesn't react to it. You say the wrestlers' standards are different. Well, their standard is to make money. If they could make money holding an armbar for 20 minutes of a 20 minute match, they'd do it. Is that good wrestling? It would be successful wrestling, yes. To me, quality doesn't equal success and vice-versa. And that's pretty much the end of it. Good Wrestling and Successful Wrestling are one-in-the-same. I don't know what you call wrestling, but I don't think it is actually the same as professional wrestling. It's more akin to a really physical dance. My standards can apply to any sort of wrestling. Except "successful wrestling", it seems. Your movie analogy was just completely irrelevant. Looking at Schindler's List and not liking it because it wasn't funny would be akin to looking at Hogan-Andre and not liking it because it wasn't stiff and didn't have tons of nearfalls. Meaning someone is only a fan of a certain genre, and they don't think anything outside of it is good. Obviously, that isn't going on here. Obviously, you missed my point. My point wasn't about genres, it was about INTENT. Speilberg didn't set out to make a comedy, so faulting it by using a standard he didn't even intend on appealing to doesn't make sense. Two of the basic things I look for in a wrestling match (story/execution) are so general that any type of pro-wrestling can have them. But neither are absolute in being necessary. Story and Move Execution are but tools to accomplish one goal. That you don't consider that goal is a fundamental problem with how you evaluate wrestling. So my movie analogy becomes relevant in this regard - if the director wasn't looking to make people laugh, a criticism of "it wasn't funny" becomes moot.

Well that was obvious.

MGQ, you say the pacing was terrible, and I disagreed and my PBP showed how they were able to keep the pace at a constant rate and keep the fans' interest through mixing up a variety of moves and when they did the same moves more than once, it was done in a different manner. That's good, smart, work. Hogan concealing his lookback when Andre was about to kick him down from behind isn't necessarily a common thing, as a lot of wrestlers expose the business by blatently turning their head and looking behind them -see their opponent coming towards them- and then face forward and take the shot. The problem with the way you look at wrestling, and I would say that it is "wrong", is that your standard and the wrestlers' standards are different. So the things that you are looking for are not what the wrestlers are looking to do, nor is it really what the live audience (who the wrestlers play off of) are looking for either. So it's unfair and unreasonable. It's akin to looking at Schindlers List and saying it was awful because it didn't make you laugh, or watching The Naked Gun and saying it sucked because what the characters did in it didn't make sense and wasn't logical. Can't you see the problem in "not caring if the audience enjoyed it" when their goal (and every wrestlers goal) was for the audience to enjoy it and the fact that they successfully got the crowd to progressively get hotter and brought their emotions up and down throughout, and not factoring that into your evaluation? But let's hold it against a guy who could barely move that he didn't do a whole lot of big moves instead of looking at how he was able to use his limited movements and how is partner sold and worked around him to make a convincing domination period which got the crowd more behind Hogan than they were originally.

To write Hogan/Andre off as an "absolutely atrocious" match is to do it a tremendous disservice. It's not a perfect match by any means, but the work done in the match is extraordinary and cannot be measured, evaluated, or represented by a fucking star. How do you convey atmosphere and gravitas in a star? How do you measure the audience reaction with shift>8? How do you represent two guys who are very limited getting complete maximization out of every move? How do you rate two guys managing to get the entire fucking silverdome, 70,000 people, to go NUTS, after a simple clothesline? And then to go MORE nuts for a bodyslam? And then to even go MORE nuts after a leg drop? How do you show that in a star? I am not saying that star ratings are meaningless, but Hogan/Andre is beyond star ratings and whatever "objective analysis" one can come up with to explain those star ratings. This match works. And it works inspite of star ratings. And this match, above every other match, shows how wrestling can't be measured, it can't be objectified, it can't be broken down and categorized and defined and intellectualized and made and limited into an established criteria. You can't go into a match with this rigid view of how wrestling is and should be and -if the match doesn't fit in and doesn't meet those expectations- you dismiss it, even if it worked. If it worked, it worked, that's the only rule for wrestling. This was not a bad match, and if your system of grading matches says that it's a bad match, then it's a bad system. I know, because I tried to critically evaluate this match, I tried to look for this coherent, deep, story and tried to see some sort of workrate or whatever so I could explain that this wasn't a bad match. I tried to make the pieces fit into my criteria and I couldn't do it. But I knew it wasn't a bad match. It couldn't have been a bad match - look how the crowd reacted. Look how I reacted. Something in that match made it good and it wasn't what I had thought made matches good. So I chucked my system. It was completely unreasonable, and put emphasis on the wrong things, and didn't take others into consideration. Hogan and Andre didn't do a lot, but what they did was certainly sufficient, and this match and their work deserves to be appreciated and recognized. +The long walk down, belt around waist, simple and effective, giving the announcers time to set the stage. +Jesse Ventura going over the tale of the tape and in the manner he did (quickly and factually, making it important). +The staredown. It set things in place, it got the crowd ready for a slower paced match. +Joey Morella circling Andre and Hogan during their staredown. It helped show the size of the wrestlers and contrasted the stillness of the two. +Hogan talking to Andre, “Hulking up” as Jesse says, Andre pushes him back and Hogan returns the favour, Andre goes for a punch which Hogan easily blocks and fires back and quickly goes for the slam, which he is unable to do and he falls back and Andre crushes him for a close 2. What I especially liked about this is that it put Hogan almost immediately on the defensive and cut the match basically in half, structurally. It went straight past any formality in regards to putting Andre in control. Normally, in a match between two top guys, a wrestler takes control after a few minutes because both guys are fresh and they need to believably get into the position where one guy is beating the other. This is particularly important because the match couldn’t go long given the two wrestlers involved. Very smart. Also, it builds Hogan “doing the impossible” at the end of the match, as-well-as establishing Hogans desire to finish it quickly (which, again, becomes significant at the end of the match). Joey checking to the outside and Andre checking with Joey helps bring some importance to it, and Andre on his knees looking eye-to-eye with Joey is another great visual (which Joey helps create by slouching over). +Boot to send Hogan down (which looks great given both guys’ faces and Hogan does a nice job concealing the look-back). Andre clubbing Hogan three times. What I like about this is that all three clubs were different – one was when Andre had Hogans bent/head tucked under his arm, another was when Hogan was standing, and another had Andre holding Hogans hair. It doesn’t seem repetitive because he changes it up each time. Hogans selling of all of these were like he got shot. And in between clubs Andre was looking out into the crowd, taunting Hogan and telling him to get up. A knee lift that has Hogan shaking his head afterwards. A bodyslam, which looked fantastic given the camera view as it conveyed the drop and Hogan sorta bouncing back up with his hand outstretched and in pain was a great sell and then him laying on his stomach, face down into the mat, almost sobbing. The camera stays in the same place as Andre walks over and we get this tremendous visual conveying the size of Andre juxtaposed to the fallen Hogan. A long, slow zoom to Andres face helps add to it. “It almost seems like at this point in the bout, it is a mis-match” This sounds like something I’d hear out of Joe Rogan at a UFC event, I love it. Andre slams Hogan again and then steps over Hogan. This was nice and didn’t make the moves seem repetitive because of the quick follow-up. Two irish-whips later and Andre is looking out to the audience and yelling out to them. Two shoulder rams into the corner and a BUTT-smash. A headbutt and Hogan holds his forehead and turns his body into the turnbuckle. Andre goes for another headbutt, but Hogan ducks under and makes comeback of a few punches, and axe-bomber, and some chops in the turnbuckle. Sweat flies off Andre when Hogan chops him. Hogan smashes Andres head into the turnbuckle and the crowd counts along and Hogan is hyped. He runs in and gets booted by Andre and the crowd gets dejected. I like how Hogans comeback contrasted Andres domination. Andres was more slow and methodical (where Hogan sold a lot) while Hogans was a lot quicker (where Andre sold little). I love how they take the crowd and put them on a quick high and when Hogan gets leveled with the boot the crowd comes down hard. This is all in like 30 seconds, if that. Andre does a wicked chop and then puts Hogan in a bear-hug and the crowd starts to rebuild and regroup. Hogan looks to his side and the crowd just responds and supports him. His movements are very animated, he shows his right and which he uses to try and tuck under Andres arm and create space, but Andre squeezes and Hogan, again, throws his arms up. Hogan continually moves around in the bear-hug (throws his arms up, the hand thing I just mentioned, putting both hands on his head and pulling on his own hair, reaching out to the audience, shaking his body) and that movement is important in not only holding the audiences attention, but to contrast when there is little movement from Hogan later-on as the holds wears him down. He gets worn-down, Joey first shakes Hogans arm and then raises it three times and, of course, on the third time Hogan recovers and comes back to life and breaks Andres grip with a series of punches. The punches work so Hogan keeps doing it, Andre tries to hold on to Hogan by keeping a hand on his tights, Andre lets go and Hogan keeps punching and even sells the punching by shaking his hand as if it were hurt. Two shoulder blocks and Hogan is trying to knock Andre down, but on the third Andre hits Hogan with a chop. Andre throws Hogan against the ropes and hits a big boot which sends Hogan to the outside. Andre puts Hogan against the post on the outside and misses a headbutt (which was business exposing in an otherwise tight match, but that doesn’t matter because the crowd bought it) and Hogan moves around on all fours and gets up, removes the padding, and grabs Ahndre by the hair and his (Hogans) face lights up and the crowd reacts. Hogan sets up a piledriver on the floor but Andre flips Hogan over and then puts Hogan back in. Andre throws Hogan against the ropes for another big boot, Hogan ducks under and hits Andre with a clothesline which sends Andre down. This was VERY well built to as all three things were set-up previously in the match. Andre used the big boot successfully twice on Hogan and different points in the match, Hogan successfully ducked under two headbutt attempts, and Hogan had tried to knock Andre down all match with the axebomber and shoulder blocks. The crowd goes wild and a lil kid starts to jump up and down. Hogan is on all fours, looks up to the audience, shakes his head, and more people jump up and down. He hulks up. He picks Andre up and slams him and the crowd goes NUTS. Hogan drops the leg and gets the 1,2,3 and the crowd goes even MORE NUTS. +The pacing was one of the matches strong points. It was a 10 minute match, tops, and they condensed a 20 minute match into it with 3 comeback spots for Hogan and had Andre on offense for most of it. +The moves were another high point as they used many moves and wasn’t repetitive because of the way they used those moves and sold it. +The set-up and pay-offs as shown in my match description/pbp. +The story is simple – Andre is big and slow, uses his size to his advantage, and looks to wear-down Hogan. Hogan tries to finish it quickly and use his speed to his advantage. Hogan tries to knock Andre down and put him on his back, Andre looks to wear out Hogans back. That's basically it, and that's all they needed.

JOEY SLOTNICK?!

He also has the STF. Wrestling is about perception, not reality. That pretty much answers just about every question anyone ever has about wrestling.

http://www.myspace.com/evan_tanner I know, the damn guy couldn't have it more complicated...

COLD BLOODED! Seacrest is AWESOME. AWESOME. Chris looked like he found out the girl he fucked was really a man. Ain't nothin for Chris, though. He'd be better off in a band than solo.

Oh come on, let's not go overboard. Grannie wear? It's more like Cougar Wear.

Can we get a gif of Katharine doin that lil go-go dancer move? My goodness.

I hated the prospect of Lorelai sleeping with Christopher so much that I didn't watch it.

I thought it was just a local game we played as kids, but apparently it's a pretty common schoolyard game. Who played it, and what rules did you have/variations used? Did you use a tennis ball or something else? I remember before each game the person who would start with the tennis ball would say the rules ("Double Bouncies, no erasies times infinity plus one spit on it" for example - though often we would play straight-up because it got whacky with too many rules) and we'd have special techniques (my favourite, the "Michael Jordan" where I'd jump in the air, spike the ball while grabbing my groin.) Another fun game we'd play was War. We'd take chalk and draw out a huge square and semi-squares within it which would be countries (naturally, some countries would be bigger than others), and we'd write our countries name into the square ("Canada", "US", etc - there would also be a neutral zone at times) and one person would start off with a basketball or a soccer ball and say "I declare war on... FRANCE!" and throw the ball into the square and the person in France would have to chase after it. In that time, you had the opportunity to claim territory in that country by making a chalk outline ( but you couldn't be in Frances square - you either had to be on the outside of the big square, have permission from another country to enter their space and draw from there, or stay within your own country and reach into the attacked country and draw from there. You could move into any marked territory (marked with the initials or full name of your country) and the objective was to capture every bit of space in the world. This was probably my favourite game. So much fun. If it were socially acceptable, I would so be playing that this summer. It'd be interested in hearing what games everyone here played as kids, and seeing if it's a local thing, or if other kids played it. It's not like we buy these games at the store, or learn them from our parents - it just travels from kid to kid and place to place.

I don't think Elliot could attract the awkward teenage girl demographic as well as Clay. Maybe the awkward jew demographic.

It's funny watching Novick in Season 2 and Novick in Season 5.

Maybe they got bored?

If so, they should have Elliot and Kellie get married and film it for a reality show. "Gosh, I didn't know Buffalos and Chickens could diddle"

"There's a swiss chalet commercial up here that I despise with all my being. It features a chick walking into the restaurant and a waitress saying "welcome home". The sentimentality is laid on thick and in doing so it has absolutely no emotion at all.

Yeah, I am rooting for the Prez too.

Foreman and House fucking with each others' disabilities could make for a whole new spin-off to the show.

"I take my coffee black - just like I take my brain-dead neutrologists."