RavishingRickRudo

And there is reason now? Wasn't Eddie still on the card during that period of time? That's the whole point of this thread, the WWE doesn't give their fans a reason to go to the house shows since they're all the same (or very similar). Plus, they lowered ticket prices, so there's a reason. ... just sayin

Why the fuck would you want Todd Grisham on the announce team? He's Chris Leary 2k4.

As a Heavyweight Champion - or even a Main Eventer - you need to help out the other guys in the company if asked. You need to attempt to bring them up to your level, even if you don't believe they should be there. This is such an odd statement. It works well in theory, however when you think about it, why would you want to help elevate someone? If you elevate them, then you're opening up a chance they could take your spot. I'm not saying that's right, and I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying don't fault the guy for protecting his spot because that's the way it is.

It was representing a 3 month period up until January 23rd. It was attendance since October. It is a much better statistic than something Meltzer reports as it uses a greater population sample (70+ events vs. 5??).

And when their next quarterly report comes out you can make that statement with something concrete behind it. However, right now the best indicator of their house show business is their last Quarterly Report.

Average attendance Jan 2004: 4,140 Jan 2003: 4,730 (12% decrease) This is from their last Quarterly Report. Unless you have something more concrete than that reflecting the state of house show business, I'll still work under the assumption that House Show business is down.

I like Demotts turning point, it makes Wrestling more of a sport when it gets analyzed like that. However, when his turning point was the opening tag to London, you've gotta question how much thought they're putting into it.

If House Shows are so bad, why do attendance levels continue to rise? House Show attendance is rising?

Brock apparently thinks he's above the business that essentially created him. He's not. Dude, the only people below the wrestling business are Murderers, Rapists, and Pedophiles. ... Oh wait.

The topic itself is completely valid. House Shows are an integral part of the WWE's Business Plan and they haven't done anything to spice them up or give the fans a reason to go. This is an example of that.

And that is my problem with him. Cole, when he focuses, is excellent at that, I feel. I can't speak for you, and I can't speak for anybody else, but Cole can't get me into a match with his voice. He doesn't convey emotion very well, especially when he uses the same voice with something like Jamie Knoble throwing Nidia into his match.

Why would you want him to return to a job he hates for more money if he's not bringing that much in to begin with? Why would owen? He did it in the early 90's. I cannot stand it when people try to make comparisons that are obviously flawed because the two things being compared have more differences than similarities. (ex: You mentioned Jeff Hardy, who has been touted as "the next HBK" for YEARS.) You've compared Goldberg and Lesnar. Lesnar gave much better performances than Goldberg. Why should you care about what goes on behind the scenes if it doesn't effect in-ring? My comparison between Owen and Lesnar was strictly performance based, I cannot stand when people don't answer the actual point, but rather, address something that is unrelated. Jeff Hardy's performance suffered because (a)His body was broken down and (b) he didn't like wrestling. People ragged on him for still wrestling and cheered him being fired. This idea that wrestlers should constantly do what is asked of them is ridiculous. Wrestling is not a team sport. It never has been. It would be great if it was, but it's not. It's a dog-eat-dog world and you have to look out for yourself. Hogan knew it and he was able to stretch his big money career out for almost 20 years. HHH is doing it right now. It's smart. I don't like when HHH does it because it effects my enjoyment of the show, but I don't fault him for it. He's protecting himself because no one else in that locker room will do it for him and no one writing the show will do it (this is a general rule, please don't break out the "but steph is!"). Why anyone would agree to be the red rooster and effectively kill off their career is mindboggling.

Difference between OWen and Brock... Owen saved up most of his money so he could retire early and spend time with his family. Brock reportedly spent almost all the money he's made on cars and other crap. Wow, talk about completely missing the point. Point: Wrestlers who hate wrestling can still perform well. Owen (supposedly) did it and nobody cared that he hated it or not. No one said "FUCK OWEN! He doesn't care about US!".

He improved because it's an activity he takes to like a duck to water. No. You can have all the potential in the world, but if you don't have the drive to use it it won't get used. Goldberg was an amazing athlete and that did transfer over to wrestling, he just didn't take the time to develop and stop stiffing guys in the ring. He hasn't changed. The guy says pretty much flat out that he's not interested in entertaining you, doesn't care if you like his matches or not, only cares that he gets enough of the company's money (and, by gate, PPV, and merch sales, ours) to buy toys or whatever else he plans to do with it. I was just watching Brock vs. Hogan today, Brock was playing with the crowd throughout. To say "he's not interested in entertaining you" is off. And hey, there's million's of people out there working jobs they don't like so they can take home big money, so if that's your thing, go forward and make money. And how many of those people could wind up dead at 40 because of their occupation? How many of those people have the same road schedule as the WWE wrestlers? And how many of those people, if given the opportunity, would leave that job for something they believe is better?

I've already addressed Goldberg. Goldberg didn't bother to improve because he didn't want to improve. Lesnar did. Lesnar still delivered in the ring, despite hating it. How about this, why don't you fill in Brock with Owen Hart. Martha said that Owen hated wrestling, but did it anyways because of the money. Owen still performed well in the ring, so who cares? If it doesn't effect his performance, then why should it matter? If it does, like Jeff Hardy, then it's best to see him go.

If McMahon offers him enough money and a better schedule, I see no reason for Brock not to return given that the precident has been set with him wrestling, despite not liking it, for the money.

*Big Laugh @ "It's the complete and utter lack of respect and total disdain for the business that made him a fucking millionaire these past few years that pisses me off."* The wrestling business is a disgusting one. It deserves little respect and much distain.

Nope. Wrestling is a drug; you have guys like Hogan and Flair who are addicted to the spotlight and never want to leave. If Eddie or Benoit would be happier outside of such a sleazy business, or didn't want to end up in a wheelchair or dead at 40, good for them.

Sadly, he has the deadly cracker voice that holds him back. He can't emote very well; I don't get the sense of excitement or drama from when he speaks. He is good with the history and technical sides of it (Josh is a smark, no doubt, he showed that on Tough Enough when he complained about the other contestants knowledge of wrestling), but he couldn't tell a story to save his life.

I don't feel soured. With Goldberg, who didn't like wrestling and was only in it for the money, I didn't like that attitude because it affected his ring work. He didn't want to learn and he didn't want to improve. Lesnar, however, learned and improved. His ring work wasn't effected and he performed very well.

I don't think the WWE could afford another WWE Superstar forgetting their manners.

The team of Mathews *and Tazz* certainly is not horrible.

Sometimes he did. Sometimes he didn't. You can't tell me he didn't drag his feet terribly in that match at the Royal Rumble with Hardcore Holly. I'd venture to say he did a lot more than he didn't. I can't tell you because I didn't see the match. Lesnars match with Guerrero a month after and with Benoit a month before, however, I did see. And Brock was very much game for it. Nearly everyone else on the roster is working hurt. And why would you say he's been working with an injury for most of his time there.....? I don't remember hearing anything about any injury Brock has. Shawn has a torn ACL....Cena had a broken hand and strained ligaments....Show needs surgery......they all had no problems working through their matches. I don't recall reading anything about any outstanding injury Brock has. Broken Ribs against Big Show (where he F-5d him), Torn Ligaments and Cartilage in his leg, the neck injury at Mania 19. He's had some of these at the same time and continued working. Sure! Well....except for the fact that he showed an unbelievable lack of effort in that match with Goldberg. Which was his last day Nothing that most of the roster doesn't do. And besides, it's something the Heavyweight Champion SHOULD do. Hell, he wants a longer title reign - he should expect stuff like this. But it's something that the big guys don't often do, at least, not as regularly as Brock did. Saying "the rest of the roster does it too" isn't valid because what the rest of the roster does is still insane by any measure. They have an unreasonable schedule and that's why you have so many wrestlers on drugs, and that's why you have so many wrestlers dying too early. Brock doesn't want that. Oh, SHAME ON HIM. I would say he owes SOMETHING to the company that completely made him what he is today. They wanted him. Remember that. He didn't come to the WWE and ask for a job, they offered him a shitload of money that he'd be stupid not to take. They pushed him. He doesn't owe them a thing. And they didn't "completely make him" because Lesnar had several options at the time of his signing. He wasn't some bum off the street, he was a prized catch.

Do they really need someone who doesn't want to be doing it? Do they need someone unhappy? Think of the damage that could cause. In the locker room and in the ring. They need that?

WESTMINSTER, Calif. -- Call it Mixed Martial Arts Darwinism. Tito Ortiz says he's been transformed by it while Chuck Liddell hasn't. And, said the former UFC light heavyweight champ to a small contingent of reporters inside the Westminster Boxing Club on Thursday, it's the reason he will win and Liddell won't when they face off April 2 at the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. "He's the same fighter he was two years ago," Ortiz says, handicapping Liddell -- his former friend and sparring partner who hounded the ex-champion into finally accepting a fight. "He's the same fighter he was a year ago. He's the same fighter he was last fight. He hasn't changed. He throws looping punches, overhand rights that people can see a mile away, [and] hooks you see a mile away. If he throws the same stuff at me, it's all junk man. I'm going to throw it in the trash. "Chuck Liddell thinks I'm the fighter that used to spar with him two-and-a-half-years ago. He's in a world of trouble because I ain't the fighter I was two years ago. I've evolved hugely in the last two years." Time in the gym with Colin Oyama, Don House, Jessie Reid, Jerry Moreno, Fabiano Iha, John Lewis, Ricco Rodriguez and Dean Lister, among others, says Ortiz, is both the proof and blueprint of this progression. Liddell, counters Ortiz, remains largely unchanged from the fighter he formed Team Punishment with long before there were any demands of a fight. "He's not willing to expose himself to different people to learn from other people," Ortiz says, insinuating Liddell's fierce loyalty to his long-time trainer John Hackleman has caught up with him. "I don't know who [Liddell's] training with or sparring with up [in San Luis Obispo]; I know he can't have many people he's sparring or training with. But I try to bring some of the best guys to come down here and train with me. You're only as good as your training partners, they say." Ortiz, who is currently 218 pounds but said he would have little problem making weight, answered questions for just over half an hour in the sparse Orange County gym before participating in a relatively light sparring session with former WBA Junior Middleweight champion John David Jackson -- a perfect example, insists Ortiz, why he's prepared to win two weeks from today. For two years, an Ortiz-Liddell contest wetted the collective-appetite of fight fans. The story is well known by now. Ortiz says there was a pact between friends. Liddell, however, has continually scoffed at that. When asked why Liddell doesn't remember the arrangement between sparring partners, Ortiz answers, "Either he's a little punch drunk, he's been punched one too many times, or he just forgets about things. But I have a really good memory and I don't forget about things. I don't get hit as much as him, so I think what I remember is pretty much true. But, hey, this fight is happening now so all that stuff doesn't really mean shit anymore." But this incarnation is much different than the one envisioned by supporters on both sides. Instead of a champion facing a long-time number-one contender, Ortiz, still coming to grips after losing his belt to Randy Couture, now faces Liddell on equal footing. Ironically, this new set of circumstances offers a greater sense of urgency for the fighters, despite apathy from those of us tired of the drawn-out saga. "I may not have the title, but in my mind this is still going to be a huge fight," Ortiz says. And he's right, but for reasons different than he may be willing to admit. For the winner, spoils should include a title fight and immediate relevance in the UFC's deepest division. On the other hand, April 2's loser will be defeated in consecutive bouts, virtually eliminated from title contention for the foreseeable future, needing at least two quality wins to be considered a viable contender again. With all that, it's hard to believe that it was just last year at this time that Ortiz was riding high from his drubbing of Ken Shamrock and Liddell was considered unbeatable. But time and the man Father Time could not stop, exposed both men. Ortiz' slippery slope began even before he forced a situation where Liddell fought Couture for an 'interim' belt. Ridiculed throughout MMA for choices that seemed to make little sense, continual criticisms took their toll on Ortiz, a fighter who has made a point to maintain close relationships with his fans. "It gets to you, yeah," he admits. "But it's something you gotta shake off, man. … You're gonna get haters that hate you and lovers that love you. It don't matter. As long as they're talking about you, that's all that matters. And more than anything, I think I have to expose myself during this fight as I stand up with him." Clearly, Ortiz isn't implying he'll shine a light on any glaring weakness. Rather, he is intent on brandishing boxing skills that he professes to have so diligently worked for. We've heard this before, though. In the weeks leading up to the Couture bout, Ortiz repeatedly promised a stand-up war. Afterwards he swore a herniated disk and a wonderfully-executed game plan on behalf of his challenger prevented any brawling on the feet. Fully healed and, by most accounts, the better wrestler this time around, there is little preventing Ortiz from standing in the middle of the ring and delivering ill-intentioned punches -- except for Liddell, of course. Why Ortiz would be compelled to trade punches with a known knockout artist is unclear, though the months of criticism may have stung him to the point of influencing a game plan, which, in the end, could prove ill-fated. "The fans want to see something exciting," he contends. "It's all about the fans. Like I say, I'm going in there to win. I've got a game plan. Standing up is part of the game plan." "In my mind, yeah, I know I can," Ortiz says with the tone of a man giving himself a pep talk. "There isn't a belief. I know I can. There ain't a problem at all with it." It is an area during their sparring days that wasn't Ortiz' strong suit. But evolution, time and hard work, he promises, will be the difference. "I already feel ready and it's a week-and-a-half away. … He's going to have a long night." http://www.maxfighting.com/Gross/gross_031904.asp