cabbageboy

Pacman is a cornerback actually. If they just make him a manager or something and let him manage a team then I have no real problems with it. But if they are allowed to put him in the ring and they put him over ANYONE in the company then I will be seriously disgusted with this company. A good swerve angle or heel turn should be something that you can see feasibly happening, but isn't so telegraphed that it's obvious. As much as it pains me, Ric Flair's 2002 heel turn on Rob Van Dam to join HHH and sew the seeds of Evolution was a beautifully done heel turn (it was the aftermath that was horrific, with HHH getting pushed even harder and RVD getting buried). That angle had: 1. A long term angle with Flair having lost control of Raw and now was at a crossroads. 2. Enough RVD and Flair segments on TV to establish some sort of onscreen relationship (Flair taught RVD the figure 4 for instance, and they hung out for a few weeks before that PPV). 3. HHH remarking to Flair that he needs to quit feeling sorry for himself and return to the Nature Boy of old. 4. A backstage segment at that Unforgiven PPV that lays the seeds of Flair's heel turn without telegraphing it. As in HHH kinda belittles Flair and RVD and RVD says a line like "Hey I'd rather hang out with him, even if he is washed up, rather than associate with you." It was something I could see Flair being a bit slighted after hearing it, but he didn't sell it as though he was angry. But the Karen Angle stuff? She had never even been on TV until a couple weeks ago and immediately gets pissed at Angle and threatens to divorce him. This angle might have worked had Kurt invited her to stay for the PPV in the hope of making up with her, but keep Joe out of it. See, that is the big problem I have here...Joe's role in this. By taking pleasure in Angle's family woes and even adding to it (or thinking he is) Joe comes off like a total douchebag. He comes off like an asshole deserving of having Karen Angle sucker him and turn on him at a PPV. Compare those two scenarios, and I know it's a bit silly to compare one of the best ever to a wrestler's wife, but it's the same sort of title match swerve. HHH and Flair both got serious heel heat there, and while RVD got buried soon after at least he didn't say "Hey Ric, why don't you come out and be in my corner tonight? It'll be swell!" In other words, at that PPV he at least looked like someone who was seriously wronged by a guy he thought was his friend. Now look at Joe. What a dumb fuck. He tries to break up a man's family, then actually invites the guy's wife to the PPV, and then is SHOCKED when his opponent's wife would help her own husband. Even if it wasn't a swerve, shouldn't Joe have been worried that Kurt and Karen patched up their differences before the PPV? Also as someone noted how did Karen know precisely when to run in? Joe had Angle in several compromising near falls and submissions that could have been the end of the match. Yet she didn't just run in as Angle was in the Kokina Clutch and almost beaten. In fact that finish would have been more appropriate, since it could have kept Kurt and Karen a couple and swerved everyone, but also not made Joe look like such a fool.

I'm not going to boycott TNA, since I can at least tolerate the weekly show on a regular basis on DVR. The truly sad aspect is that OVW turns out a better TV show on a weekly basis. That said, I am not going to watch TNA PPVs for a while. TNA has devolved into Kurt Angle jerking off in front of the world and right now I have zero interest in seeing that. Take a look at the past couple of months in TNA and you'll know why WWE was always hesitant to make Angle their unchallenged #1 star.

The only thing about the Vince angle that I find truly foolish is that there should be no mystery to something like this. If a woman is going to file a paternity suit she would have to let the alleged father know 1. Who she is and 2. Who the child is. This angle has been entertaining thus far but let's not get carried away with the mystery aspect and reveal the bastard fairly soon. Ron Simmons = Awesome.

You know, I can certainly see Orton destroying the spinner belt. It just seems like something he would do. That SS main event is the definition of a match where whoever loses, I win. Or maybe whoever wins, I lose. I can't figure out which.

You know, for reasons like that TNA really needs to change their name to something else. Something with a W for Wrestling would be nice. This is why I wish they were still the NWA, but then I guess the Two Live Stews would make comparisons to the rap group.

Why are they hell bent out jobbing out Sabin and Shelley? I don't care much for either as singles, but as a team they've been terrific thus far. And they're jobbing to those guys? From reading this stuff has there ever been a more ludicrously overpushed man in pro wrestling than Kurt Angle? And what's with them mentioning the term "sports entertainment" anyway? That reminds me more and more of 2000 era WCW when they started throwing the SE term out there when it was the exact opposite of what the company actually stood for.

I don't get why HHH didn't come out tonight. It was the exact moment to do it, though I dunno if HHH cares about Lawler enough to bother. Pretty fun show tonight, though most of it isn't exactly setting up stuff for SS. I am loving the Regal and Simmons stuff on Raw right now though, even if there isn't any particular point to it.

Sigh. With Punk beating Morrison in another pointless match I am starting to think he's jobbing yet again at the PPV. Why I have no idea.

I too used to be a fan of the guy around 1992-93. Though really he was another guy who did a goofy heel turn that never really worked or panned out, much like Tatanka during that period. It's like everyone who got beat down by Yokozuna did a bad heel turn. RIP

Ha, TNA put the world title back on The Truth? The guy has been so buried for so long that no one would even buy it. Hell if anything he's been on the outs with the company and wanted his release. I actually can see Killings and Pacman forming a tag team if they can ever clear up the Titans mess. But that said, TNA has way too many credible tag teams to dick around with these guys getting title shots. Lastly, TNA desperately needs to change their name. It's always been a stupid name for the promotion itself....it was a better name for the TV show when it was still the NWA. I'm probably the only one who actually wishes they were still the NWA, since that's at least a real promotion name if nothing else. When newscasters say "TNA" on the news and seem embarrassed to hardly get the letters out, that's a problem.

Thing is, even if Pacman didn't have the various contract issues what exactly would TNA do with him that would be so interesting? Feuding with Ron Killings at this point isn't going to mean much to people. Does anyone else find the booking of Abyss to be quite similar to Kane? We all realize he's TNA's attempt at a Kane/UT/Mankind type character, but mostly Kane. What I mean by similar to Kane is that he's that constant upper card guy that mostly just jobs to the champion and gets his annual lame duck title shot. My advice to TNA: Stop all the fucking run ins. Or at least cut back on this sort of thing. They never seem to have a clean finish to a PPV, which is fine when a particular match calls for it. But doing it month after month is enough to wear down any fan. I for one have zero desire to see that PPV next month, since going in I already know that Mitchell's new man will attack Abyss and cost him the match. Russo doesn't seem to know how to do his own booking at this point. Kane costing UT a match against Shawn Michaels is something that had immense importance, since it led to the entire Kane/UT feud (as well as HBK/Austin). What point do any of these run ins in TNA really serve? Christian's heel turn on Sting....what did that accomplish? Karen Angle last night...what did it really accomplish?

The booking of TNA and WWE are at the opposite ends of the spectrum right now. TNA is all about doing crazy, convoluted shit with people doing heel turns, ref bumps, run ins galore. WWE has been almost all about clean finishes with no weird stuff. The irony is that both are achieving the same goal, namely putting a bunch of heels over and pissing fans off to no end. First off with Joe, I wonder if he's leaving due to bad booking or if they are booking him bad because they think he's leaving. Chicken or the egg there. But the thing is with Joe is you only have so many chances to put this guy over as a champion and a major star. I can see doing this goofy Karen storyline if this was the 1st or 2nd Angle/Joe match. But this was a match with literally everything in the company riding on it, and they book THIS sort of shit? Does anyone know where Joe exactly fits in at this point? Abyss gets his lame duck shot and will job with a run in. Eventually Jarrett will return as the conquering hero and get his belt back. Hell, do you realize that my dad asks me every week (whenever TNA comes up) when they are going to put the belt back on Jarrett? So where does Joe fit into this if not to be buried or released? Would they seriously do Joe vs. Angle AGAIN at BFG? Even tossing the lame booking aside none of their matches have been so amazing as to justify this.

Yeah I don't see it as RVD vs. JBL at all that year. There were no signs of this whatsoever on TV. Cena was obviously being groomed for that WM spot, whereas all RVD was doing was tagging with Rey in late 2004/early 2005. In fact if RVD doesn't have the serious leg surgery I bet he would have been the one to do the heel turn on Rey and feud with him. But what does Eddie do at that point? Another round with JBL? Trade to Raw? I doubt they would job out RVD to Rey the amount of times Eddie ended up jobbing to him, and there would have been no Dominic crap either. And it would have been a fresh matchup.

Flair would have likely done the stuff he did anyway. Dick around with Piper, have the NWA belt (if he could have, depends on what part of 1988....if earlier Crockett wouldn't have allowed it, but later when Turner bought them out Herd was in charge). Arn/Tully would still be the Brainbusters with Flair sorta in the Heenan Family but not exactly in it. He might have gotten the belt from Macho at some point and maybe transitioned it to Hogan for WM 5.

I don't recall when Orton beat Booker, but I recall he smacked Race once on Raw or something. I guess that counts as killing his legend somehow. Oh and he beat RVD for the IC title at Armageddon 2003. How did he exactly kill the RVD legend at ONS this year? He LOST the friggin match.

I think everyone on this forum with half a brain saw the finish to that main event coming. In a deranged way I think it buried Joe worse losing like that than it would have if he had simply lost clean or if Angle had sorta cheated him. I do have a question though: Who was Karen's "new man?" I sorta wondered if it was Eric Angle, but that is all sorts of creepy. TNA needs to look at the crowd reactions on this show tonight. Now, I usually think the Orlando crowd are a bunch of fuckholes, but they do at least usually make noise and are into the show. But this show? There were an alarming amount of matches with zero heat and that is mostly due to the booking. Rhino vs. Storm had a bizarre storyline within it and only served to continue Rhino's PPV jobbing. Roode/Young made zero sense either and it's time to END THIS FEUD. Hell, the opener was probably the best actual match but did they not get the memo that Lethal and Dutt are essentially buried at this point? They had a newly revived team job to them in XXX, as well as another hot team in Sabin and Shelley. I dunno what to think. Joe looks like the biggest douchebag on earth right now for numerous reasons. It wasn't like Karen was simply there for no reason or Kurt invited her....it was JOE that asked her to be there, so he has no one to blame but himself! Further, he elicits little sympathy because he seemed to relish Angle's alleged marital woes, rather than just keeping out of it and focusing on the match. Angle came off like a prick in the way he trashed his wife, but did Joe really come off any better with the way he laughed his ass off at the entire situation? Where can they even go from here? Abyss is a blatant lame duck challenger merely there for filler and so the new dude Judas Macias can run in to cost him that match.

Wait up, did Dusty Rhodes seriously win the NWA title in 2003? Or was it some goofy shit that was just overturned?

I too have never understood the idea that Jericho should have beaten HHH in April 2000. It was merely a test of the waters to see if Jericho could draw a big response as champ. Rock vs. HHH was already signed for Backlash, so there was nothing you could do with Jericho at that point. With that said, the way Jericho was booked in 2000 was pretty awful. He mostly jobbed to Benoit and Angle, and then his actual big match with HHH (LMS) he jobbed there too. Never understood the fondness some have for Jeff vs. UT on Raw, ladder match. It was okay but I never seriously thought Hardy was going to win the belt. One thing I never understood about that late 2001 period was why they stopped the Austin/RVD angle. They could have kept that going after the Invasion was over. In fact I have always found the Invasion to be an underrated angle. It at least had a beginning, middle, and end, the right side won out in the end, and quite a bit of the action was superb. SummerSlam 2001, Unforgiven 01, and No Mercy 01 were all really excellent PPVs from what I recall.

Well, and to be honest Pacman Jones isn't really all that known. He's done little on the field to warrant a mention so far, and most of his notoriety is of the negative kind. Maybe they should bring in Vick? Ha!

I started watching TNA shortly into their 2002 run, I'd say it was when Shamrock still had the title and nobody really cared. Didn't matter since the Styles/Lynn stuff was magnificent on those shows and worth the 9.95 alone. The thing with TNA back then is that it was quite honestly revolutionary with the X Division. I loved that stuff, it was like a hybrid of WCW cruiserweight action and the RVD/Lynn ECW series (as in it had the fast furious action of WCW, mixed with a sense that these guys actually wanted to beat the piss out of each other). I got highly disinterested in the PPVs when Russo was all over the show leading the SEX faction, and Paul Bearer showed up for no reason. That stuff was horrid. I tuned in again shortly after the Raven/Jarrett stuff with Raven still chasing the belt but the New Church kept fucking with him. And that stuff was also tremendous. As it was I ended up getting my own apt. in Nov. 2003 and thus getting PPVs from a 2nd rate company became less of a priority. I occasionally watched those ultra crappy Fox Sports shows, but nothing kept me interested. I did get more interested when they moved to Spike TV in Oct. 2005 and have watched pretty much ever since.

Well, a certain amount of the stoner humor with RVD would have proven funny as long as he backed it up with insane in ring stuff. Guys like Val and Godfather didn't have the in ring sense of awe and spectacle that RVD brings to the table. GF mainly sucks in the ring and Val is a solid journeyman but is kinda like Shane Douglas in terms of not having anything spectacular. Here's one that is more of a wish type deal than a what if: Supposing RVD is in the WWF during that period, what if he was in a HIAC match against UT? I think we'd all have preferred that to the Bossman match from WM 15.

Okay fine, have Austin come out in the middle of the show and say a few words. But him being the last guy doing the main tribute was always hollow to me. As far as Jarrett goes, hell I don't BLAME him for what he did. If they wanted me to do something no one else had ever done (as in job a title to a woman), and my contract is up to boot, they better pay me some serious $$. But Vince took it as a major slight and that is that.

I don't think that RVD should have won the belt from Austin at No Mercy 2001. Wasn't quite the right time for it. In another thread I pondered this exact scenario. Frankly, Angle lost all sorts of steam as a face post 9/11....just something about his American hero act was phony and uncomfortable. He won the title in his hometown right after 9/11 cause he had to, but it almost seemed manipulative. RVD was easily more over than him. With that said, I have Austin retain there by pinning Angle and NOT RVD. Then I do RVD/Austin at Survivor Series and that would be where I'd put the belt on RVD. The bigger issue here is what happens after this if they keep the Alliance going. Do they boot Austin and support RVD? Would RVD have been HHH's job bitch at WM the way Jericho was? The other obvious stuff here is Luger over Flair at GAB 88, even if he was going to job the belt at Starrcade back to Flair. And of course Hogan and Bockwinkel in 1983. The AWA and NWA made it easy for the WWF in the 1980s, I swear. Both promotions did their utmost to kill their business with historic level bad booking.

In regards to Tucker and Rock, it's mostly just that when Tucker first arrived on the scene he just drew joking comparisons to Chris Rock. I guess it's just both are black and named Chris and are comedians, and since Rock came first people thought Tucker was a ripoff. Anyway, Rush Hour 3 was an okay time waster. The French cabbie was fairly amusing, as were a few of Tucker's lines. Chan has lost a step though, I don't recall an action set piece from him in this that really blew me away. And now for a spoiler....

UT isn't jobbing to Edge at WM under any circumstances. Good grief, haven't we discussed that topic enough over the past 2 years? What with all these theories that Edge would win the MITB and pin UT after the main event at WM....I mean yeah it did kinda happen but thankfully not that exact night. Okay fine, would you rather them keep the belt on Khali till WM and have UT beat him then? It's probably the easiest thing to book.