The Draft

[Guest Frank Zappa Mask]

QUOTE

I play in a rock band

Case closed.

 

God Marney, You really have a stick up your ass, and I bet you really like it too...

 

and every word of cartman2092's post is true. except the happy meals. mcdonald's is nasty, you stupid americans

[Guest cartman]

No no, my friend, TACO BELL is NASTY...Mc'D isnt THAT bad...lol

[Guest the pinjockey]

I was born with a heart murmur, so I coldn't serve anyway, but I would be willing to if I was needed

Wait, being born with a heart murmur means you get out of the draft? SCORE!

 

As for the draft in general if the war was actually worth fighting I would do my time. I am damn lazy but if your number is called it is called. If I did not agree with what the war was bing fought for I would consider dodging why risk my life for something I don't believe in.

 

I can't imagine there being a draft however with the size of our armed forces.

 

Finally Taco Bell is nasty but I love it. I realize the meat is probably about grade W or X level but I still like it.

[Guest Shaved Bear]

the heart murmur kept my father out of Vietnam, and war makes people insane when they don't believe in the war, for example, a group of Rebels fight a war, they believe in it, the Army with people forced to serve don't believe necessarily, and they lose their minds

[Guest Mr. Slim Citrus]

Shaved Bear, how bad is your heart murmur? I was born with one, too, and it got so bad during my sophmore year that I had to quit the wrestling team. But, my health slowly improved, and by my senior year, I was able to wrestle again, as well as being on the soccer team.

 

Of course, mine may not be as serious as yours is; I'm just saying that sometimes they can improve...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

God Marney, You really have a stick up your ass, and I bet you really like it too...

Like I said, go whack off to a Playboy pictorial. It gives me the creeps to think of perverts like you imagining me naked.

 

And if the thought of a 15 year-old playing in a "rock band" doesn't make you shudder...

[Guest Cancer Marney]

"Mr President, if you could further see clear to not answer that question like an economics professor with a big old stick up his BUTT, that would be good too."

"I am an economics professor with a big old stick up my BUTT, but I'll do my best for you there, Mandy."

"Thank you, sir."

 

Maybe I do have a stick up my BUTT. But at least mine doesn't go straight through my brain, Chris, whereas yours does, since your head has always been lodged in your ass.

[Guest Frank Zappa Mask]

I like having my head in my ass, hon. Sometimes it just offers a far better view.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Y'know, it's hard to mock you when you say things like that. You make yourself look so much more ridiculous than I could in a thousand posts.

 

Keep blowing hot air up your rectum, Chris. At least someone appreciates your efforts.

[Guest cartman]

All Hail Queen Marney!

[Guest Shaved Bear]

Shaved Bear, how bad is your heart murmur? I was born with one, too, and it got so bad during my sophmore year that I had to quit the wrestling team. But, my health slowly improved, and by my senior year, I was able to wrestle again, as well as being on the soccer team.

 

Of course, mine may not be as serious as yours is; I'm just saying that sometimes they can improve...

its not bad, because i work out constantly, eat the right things etc, basically, i wont let my heart get bad, so for the most part its under control

[Guest Evolved Primate]

*Yawn* We have a No Holds Barred section for these kind of mild flame wars. You could take it there if you really want to get into it. Anyways, ignoring the flames, I have my own views on the draft. I personally wouldn't sign up for it, at least not at my age(17). Personally, I don't think I could kill a man, even if they are heartless, sub-human monkeys(thank you the MikeSC). Frankly, I wouldn't be too good in the army: I'm a slacker, ask a lot of questions, and feel guilty if I accidently kill a bug(since I would never willingly kill).

 

*Imagins Marney naked*

 

Eh...whatever.

 

*Wonders where she got the name 'Marney.'*

[Guest EricMM]

no way not to No Holds Barred, this stuff stays right here. This is Current Events flaming dammit!

 

Anyways how would you imagine someone naked you've never met?

 

Anyways, WHY would you imagine someone naked if you've never seen them?

 

But on the draft? Eh. I'm balanced on the issue. I think it would be kind of "cool" for America to have like 2 years required service. How long does it take to train? Would it be one years training one years active service? Clearly I have no idea how the system works. But I know Romans did it and it would probably make some of us a little more healthy and a little more patriotic, especially the training. AND if we're not at war, we will also do what the Romans did and make them build roads

 

But on the other hand, if everyone but the handicapped doesn't have to do it, then noone should HAVE to do it. Besides, there are people who WILL do it, and I laud them. I personally have very few qualities of a good soldier. I'm mostly a pacifist. I would probably get into a fight only to protect someone else. A personal friend. Besides we can't ALL be soldiers.

[Guest MarvinisaLunatic]

I'd be exempt for several medical reasons, but I was told I could serve in a cook type postition with my vast culinary skills and such. I just don't think I could pull out any Steven Segal in Under Siege 1 moves if the need arose, I'd probably resort to throwing knives and yelling get the hell out of my kitchen like my mother used to yell at me when I was young and in her way in the kitchen. So if serving my country means serving up the meatloaf, I guess Im there.

 

I doubt we'll need a draft for something like an invasion of Iraq, but heaven forbid that it gets on a scale of another World War. 2 Million wouldn't cut it, and then yeah, there'd probably be a mass exodus of people about my age to Canada or better yet..Switzerland!!

Thats where I'd go..Switzerland is the neutralist place on earth..

[Guest Some Guy]

But on the draft? Eh. I'm balanced on the issue. I think it would be kind of "cool" for America to have like 2 years required service. How long does it take to train? Would it be one years training one years active service? Clearly I have no idea how the system works. But I know Romans did it and it would probably make some of us a little more healthy and a little more patriotic, especially the training. AND if we're not at war, we will also do what the Romans did and make them build roads

 

But on the other hand, if everyone but the handicapped doesn't have to do it, then noone should HAVE to do it. Besides, there are people who WILL do it, and I laud them. I personally have very few qualities of a good soldier. I'm mostly a pacifist. I would probably get into a fight only to protect someone else. A personal friend. Besides we can't ALL be soldiers.

Why, so we can be just like the USSR? Sounds "cool" to me, Comrade.

[Guest EricMM]

Did I use the wrong word? Interesting maybe, instead of cool? Effective perhaps? I didn't know the USSR did it, but I know that the Romans were strong because of their armies and their armies were huge because every Roman had to give like 4 years or so.

 

Is that a socialist thing? I didn't think of it like that, then what is a draft?

[Guest fk teale]

It's an indentured servitude thing. Does this really need to be explained? Also, did you pause to think that the rest of us might have something better to do during those two years than sucking up asphalt fumes and marching up and down the square? Further, that because an amateur social engineer watched half of Ben-Hur and decided LETS BE ROMANS is not a good reason to do anything? Ass.

[Guest EricMM]

WTF Ass. Since when did vocalizing an idea make me an ass? I just meant it would be interesting to IMAGINE what effect if might have on America if everyone spent two years in the military.

 

Since when did discussing ideas make me a socialist asshole, I'll never know. I mean christ sorry if I sound like I'm being overreactive but I don't take kindly to people insulting me without just cause...

 

Here's my post: Hey, I didn't mean socialism, I just thought it was an interesting idea..

 

Your post: Shut up you know nothing and don't deserve to say anything ever because you're a worse person than me.

 

This is off topic but what the hell in my post required any kind of severity on your part? Call me thin skinned but sheesh...

[Guest J*ingus]

Um, Eric, it is NOT a good idea to get into an argument with this guy...

[Guest Some Guy]

Eric I'd listen to Jingus if I were you.

 

But it's not a socialist thing, more of a totalitarian thing. There's no way that the American people would vote for that. I'm in no way anti-military and I wouldn't vote for that. My girlfriend's father was born in the USSR and he was forced to fight against us in Vietman despite the fact that he is not a Communist, he's a Republican actually. Most totalitarian systems like the Romans, Nazis, and Soviets employed this and it causes major problems, more so than the draft. Would you want a physically frail "dove" watching your back in war? I wouldn't. I say let the war be fought by warriors and leave everyone else alone unless there is no other option.

[Guest LooseCannon]

I think there are a few western european nations that have a required period of military service, but I can't remember which ones. Calling it either socialist or totalitarian is kinda harsh. That said, it's not really necessary in this country, and at this point it wouldn't really fly. But it wouldn't be that bad either. Fk Teale might be right about his indentured servitude comment, but then the Supreme Court did find that the draft itself did not run afoul of the 13th amendment's prohibition against involuntary servitude, so who knows. Maybe the govt could legally do this if they wanted to.

[Guest EricMM]

Well I wouldn't vote for it either. Just because it's an idea doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just a discussion topic was all it was.

 

Clearly it's not a popular one so I will drop it

[Guest Cancer Marney]

*Yawn* We have a No Holds Barred section for these kind of mild flame wars. You could take it there if you really want to get into it.

Nah. Um, hey Mr *Yawn*, there's a bit of lettuce stuck in your teeth. And you might want to start using Scope. Just a suggestion.

 

Anyways, ignoring the flames, I have my own views on the draft. I personally wouldn't sign up for it, at least not at my age(17). Personally, I don't think I could kill a man, even if they are heartless, sub-human monkeys(thank you the MikeSC). Frankly, I wouldn't be too good in the army: I'm a slacker, ask a lot of questions, and feel guilty if I accidently kill a bug(since I would never willingly kill).

And isn't it nice to know that people who actually do have some courage are protecting both your precious principles and your right to voice them? Yet another teenager shouts his moral superiority from the rooftops... how surprising. At least this one doesn't claim he could be a lethal killing machine if only he were to try.

 

*Imagins Marney naked*

Eh...whatever.

Remarkable accomplishment, since, as Eric noted, you have no idea what I look like.

 

Eric: fine, I will. You were being thin-skinned. Chill.

[Guest fk teale]

Some kind of saddest limpest sissy fit slap fight ever? Cocks on a hotplate, I never told you to stop posting or that you didn't deserve to be a valued part of the web community but if I violated netiquette and broke your beating heart in the process please be cyberassured that I am e-crying salty hot virtual tears of regret, you huge goddamn fairy.

 

So you have my sincerest apologies if this is dire obscenity in whatever flowery curlicued language you speak where the i's are always dotted with little hearts and every letter is signed WITH LOVE and means it, but anyone who suggests tyranny would be "interesting" or "cool" or "effective" has a great big punch to the cunt coming and no matter how hard you try to revise what you were saying into something palatable I'm not taking my rings off. I'm quite happy to drive you to the emergency room after, mind, but this has to be done, if not for its own sake, then at least to rescue you from this My Little Pony world of yours where every star is shining just for you and the niceness police keep order with their cotton candy batons, and don't think I haven't got the other fist reserved for whoever it was who told you that every single teratological wonder of an idea that crossed your goofy balloon head was something deserving of praise and hugs and encouragement. Your precious idea was born with flippers and an exposed brain. Don't go bawling and wiping your snotty nose all over the forum because I had to take it out behind the bike shed and smother it. Fucking christ, it's a good thing I wasn't harsher.

 

And while we're at it, I don't think you're a socialist asshole. I think you're a hand-wringing girl's blouse who has a seriously unpleasant proclivity for telling other people what they can and cannot say and do. You've decided two years of military service would do some folks a world of good? I'd entreat you to invest in a nice solid mirror and take a long fucking look in it. But now we're drawing away from our chief point which is, as you've surmised, that I am a better person than you. This is because, while I concur that exercise and discipline are eminently worthwhile, I have trouble coming to the conclusion that this insight somehow entitles me to run everyone else's life for them.

 

Also, I don't parrot Rosie O'Donnell. But that's mostly because I don't like vomiting in self-disgust, so carry on.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Marry me. Please. I beg you.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

I'm not here to stir the pot. But for some reason I get this very hostile vibe from Marney.

 

And now a break from the obvious.

 

To Marney

 

I pose this question, as I know little about you and have no right to presume. Are you in the military, enlisted or otherwise? I ask this because I have this problem, call it mysoginy or whatever you must... I call it logic, with women who pan some men's fear of the draft. Being that there is no Required Selective Service Registration for women it would be pretty easy to lie back and belittle whatever uneasy feelings some might have about having to fight a war. However, if you are voluntarily in the army, air force, what have you, I can see (partially) where you are coming from. (Also, if you aren't in the military, please don't tell me that you would join if a need arose as that is only a presumption of your gut reaction in the heat of the moment and is ultimately pointless and meaningless)

 

I myself do not wish to fight in a war. For numerous reasons. Some political, some personal. And I am not whining over fighting in Iraq which, agreed, would be a very quick and very safe "war". But war in general.

 

I'm not trying to hide behind a platform of non-involvement or passivist propaganda either. The truth is, the thought of fighting in a war, a ground war, scares me. Not out of fear of death, but out of fear that IF I die the last thing I will know of this earth is blood and death and hunger and sweat and tragedy. Depending of the magnitude of the war, my involvement could change me, forever. I've met enough broken down 'Nam veterans in my day to have a very real fear of the aftermath of war.

 

Could I kill a man? Yes. I do believe I could. If I had to in hopes of staying alive. Could I live with the very real danger of being injured? Most likely. My reluctance is not spawned from self-preservation as much as it is from an unwillingness to die. I am simply not eager to give up living in hopes of satisfying whatever shortcoming's George Bush feels about himself that would make him want to fight an ultimately dated war that should have been conclusively finished a LONG time ago.

 

And about the courage of the men that fight for our country, I have to wonder if there were no draft to begin with, how many of the unfortunate dead 'Nam vets would have been around to die so that you could have the privledge of respecting and feeling sorry for them?

[Guest Vagabond]

FK Teale, You have great talent as a writer and I love your use of metaphor and colorful adjectives to insult. However, for the most part you are as lacking in substance as those you rail against for being non-substantive. I know it can be tough, but I have found in my many years the best way to blow somebody out of the water is not with insults but with irrefutable facts. You could use your substantial talents in a much more useful fashion.

[Guest Vagabond]

The Romans discovered to their peril that a conscript army is much less effective than a volunteer one. Those you draft normally only have loyalty to themselves and little for their country they are fighting for. The Vietnam war proved this in more recent times. The only real purpose for a conscript army is one of conquest and not for defense. If you don't have enough troops you are doing things that aren't for defense but for the former. It's even more so in the case of the US in which our troops are used as a form of diplomacy and to defend others too lazy and cheap to defend themselves. This is what we need to change and not draft anybody.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

To Marney...

Are you in the military, enlisted or otherwise?

No.

I ask this because I have this problem... with women who pan some men's fear of the draft... it would be pretty easy to lie back and belittle whatever uneasy feelings some might have

How many times does this have to be said? There will be no draft. We don't NEED to fucking draft you. Period. Get the fuck over it.

(Also, if you aren't in the military, please don't tell me that you would join if a need arose as that is only a presumption of your gut reaction in the heat of the moment and is ultimately pointless and meaningless)

Kinda like your post?

I myself do not wish to fight in a war... the thought of fighting in a war... scares me.

Anyone it doesn't scare is a liar or a fool.

I am simply not eager to give up living in hopes of satisfying whatever shortcoming's George Bush feels about himself that would make him want to fight an ultimately dated war that should have been conclusively finished a LONG time ago.

You'd be more convincing if you refrained from making personal attacks against the President. The war with Iraq is necessary not because of anyone's personal insecurities but because Saddam Hussein is both evil and dangerous. Iraq is a clear and present danger. This is not a matter of opinion but of fact. There are many dangerous countries and many dangerous dictators, but Iraq and Saddam Hussein are the worst by far.

I have to wonder if there were no draft to begin with, how many of the unfortunate dead 'Nam vets would have been around to die so that you could have the privledge of respecting and feeling sorry for them?

Vietnam wasn't a war of necessity, you fucking moron. The Vietnamese never threatened America's freedoms. If there had been no war the Constitution would still be perfectly safe and sound, 58148 Americans would still be alive, and Communism would in all probability still have fallen. Plain and simple, Vietnam was a mistake and a betrayal. Oh, by the way, over two-thirds of the soldiers in Vietnam were volunteers, and more than nine in ten say they're glad they served.

 

It helps to have the facts on your side before you come charging in like a blind snorting rhino, slugger. Might want to keep that in mind.

[Guest Gamengiri2002]

You Marney, I wondered that if I posted a dignified reply to what you have said if you could reciprocate said dignity. And, silly me for I may be reading this the wrong way, but calling me a fucking moron when I took no personal liberties on your character seems to have sucked the dignity right out of your response.

 

My argument is not over the draft, it's over your outward hostility towards people who seem afraid of the idea. I am not claiming to believe the draft will be re-instated because I am aware of the socio-political bullshit it would stir up.

 

We could argue the neccessity of this new "war" on Iraq day and night. Saddam Hussein is hostile and he is capable of causing us some major problems. But these are not the reasons for this recent campaign. If they were, then Hussein would have been dealt with back in Desert Storm. This is our government's attempt at re-establishing our position of power after being brought down a peg by a bunch of well trained and highly funded fundamentalists who happen to be in good favor of a man we have been at odds with for over a decade. For this reason Saddam Hussein is now being targeted whereas the tenth anniversary of his death and the collapse of his regime should have been celebrated 3 months ago. Hussein is a threat, but it is no more a neccssity now to get rid of him than it has been at any point in time over these last ten years.

 

As for your Vietnam explanation, I would go so far as to say that America's freedoms are in no more danger of being taken away rom us now than they were when we dropped the ball on monitoring and destroying Al Qaede and Bin Laden the first time.

 

We can never know what would have happened if Vietnam didn't happen BECAUSE it happened. As such, we can only speculate. Would it be similar to what happened anyway? My opinion is that it would. Such is the case with this Hussein campaign now, if we don't go in then Hussein will die of natural causes in the next ten years and the UN steps in to help his tired, hungry people re-establish themselves as a nation. No harm, no foul. The ONLY side-effect is that we won't feel good about getting even for 9-11, which is something we really want to do now that it's possible that bin Laden went and died on us. So now we get Hussein, we burn his palace, and we dance on the ashes and we can feel content in saying "We showed those terrorist motherfuckers not to mess with the US."

 

I am not a Hussein supporter but I'm just saying I believe that the motives behind this new campaign are neither neccessary nor pure. It's being done for the wrong reasons. The right ones being to bring down a tyrannical asshole who has been starving his people and exploiting this extremist attitude to garner popular support for his administration and disuading any rebellion from trying to overthrow him.

 

We can't deal in facts here, only opinions, only personal views. I am not attacking yours, only sharing mind and trying to understand your hostility towards well spoken, dissenting opinions as you have only openly addressed those who present their opinions to you in a thought out manner.

 

I agree with you a lot of the time on this board at this time however, I find you to be a little self-righteous and over-bearing mainly because (in my opinion) you get X amounts of positive feedback for how "in your face" you are. But I think it goes to ridiculous lengths when you call me a fucking moron because I don't agree and/or you didn't understand what I was trying to say.

 

So if you really want to argue this further... please, calm the fuck down and actually SAY SOMETHING RELEVANT.