Guest AlwaysPissedOff Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Anglesault contributes far more than this motherfucker ever will. To be perfectly honest, I REALLY doubt that... But then, that's just my personal opinion.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 I think HIAC still has the 'aura' about it- Austin v. Angle would've been a great HIAC blowoff
Guest AlwaysPissedOff Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Very true, Bob. I think using the Cell for the main event at No Mercy instead of a weak 3-way involving RVD would have done some good business.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 The last feud I thought really could have used it was Austin/HHH in early 2001. That was the last true "blood feud" and I don't think there has been one since that really deserved HIAC as it's blow off. As for the last one, it wasn't that great. Trips was really slow and plodding, and Jericho wasn't the guy to carry him. Lots of non-sensical stuff like pin-falls counting on top of the cage, and HHH using the barbed wire 2x4 for no apparent reason. Still ok, but hardly one to track down, and the match should probably have never happened any way, because it was just a stupid vehicle for HHH to look "hard-core." Then again, I'm of the opinion that HHH/Austin from No Way Out '01 was just as offending in many ways, so maybe I'm not the best person to talk to if you absolutely love that sort of match.
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Hell in a Cell is the WWF ultimate gimmick match. It can't die like the ladder match because its a big ass fucking cage. Not even WCW could kill the gimmick. Scaffold matches are good on paper, bad when done. There has been like 1 scaffold match that didn't suck. And it was Midnights vs Rock n Roll express at Starrcade 87. And that match wasn't that great either. All they were are stalling, crawling, and (crappy)brawling. The best gimmick match of all time, at 30'X15'X10', the ONLY good gimmick match EVER made by Dusty Rhodes.....WARGAMES~!!~. The ULTIMATE stable blow off fued...except for Dusty et al vs Horsemen and WCW vs nWo. Thunderdome/HIAC ratings: Flair/Sting vs J-Tex: **1/2 Flair vs Luger: ****1/2 Flair vs Savage: ****1/4 Hogan vs Giant: -** Hogan vs Piper: -*** Badd Blood 97: HBK vs Taker at ****3/4 stars KotR 98: Mankind vs Taker at *for the first bump. WM15: Taker vs Bossman -** RAW 99: Kane/Mankind vs Taker/Austin: No rating/ no contest/no match. Kennel in a Cell: DUD, they tried hard but the gimmick killed the match. 6 pack hell in a Cell: *** Foley vs Trips: ****1/2 Trips vs Jericho: *** Wargames ratings: 7/4/87: ***** 7/31/87: **** GAB 89: **** Wrestlewar 91: ****3/4 Wrestlewar 92: ***** Fall Brawl 93: *3/4, no blood=not a good match Fall Brawl 94: * Fall Brawl 95: * Fall Brawl 96: *** Fall Brawl 97: **
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Be carefull - you're using Keith's ratings for the HIAC and Wargames matches. That's usually not a very good idea.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 My ratings- WarGames 91- ****1/4 Wargames 92- ***** WarGames 96- **1/2 HIAC- HBK v. Taker- ***** Taker v. Mankind- ***1/2 6-pac- ****1/2 Taker v. Bossman- -*** HHH v. Y2J- ***1/2-****
Guest Just call me Dan Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Be carefull - you're using Keith's ratings for the HIAC and Wargames matches. That's usually not a very good idea.
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Within the last 2 weeks, I rewatched EVERY one of those matches. Its my feeling about it. If I can mark out in a match I seen 1000x then it still great. thats why I love HIAC 1 and the first few wargames. They have that feeling of hatrid and not bound down by the gimmick(ala any HIAC after 98).
Guest converge241 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 i think HITC should be used once a year, like the ppvs signature. have 2 bloodfeuds settled inside of it. I like the original the best still
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 I think the WWF should do a wargames this year...UnAmericans and Jericho vs Flair/BookerDust/Taker. It would be a good match because Taker can be the last man in and do what he does best, brawl and no sell and it would WORK in that kind of match.
Guest Just call me Dan Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Yes , the idea of having an annual guaranteed gimmick match is great. War Games was always heavily anticipated, and whether it was good or not, next year was still looked forward to. I'd love to see that exact wargames you stated Midnight Express.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Within the last 2 weeks, I rewatched EVERY one of those matches. Its my feeling about it. If I can mark out in a match I seen 1000x then it still great. thats why I love HIAC 1 and the first few wargames. They have that feeling of hatrid and not bound down by the gimmick(ala any HIAC after 98). Sorry, it's just that glancing over your ratings, it appeared you had merely compiled all of Keith's ratings of the matches instead of rating them yourself. I'll try to look more carefully next time. Alright, then how, exactly, are the two '87 matches a full star appart in quality? I don't really understand this, as they seemed like the same match to me, with the second being slightly less inventive. Why, in your '93 rating, do you say the lack of blood hurt the match, and then rate '96 ***? That had no blood, as far as I can remember. As for Bad Blood, I don't see how this can be rated so highly as many of the bumps seemed to take a while to be set up (the table bump sticks out) and HBK didn't get nearly enough offense to make the match competative. Plus, Shawn over-sold way too much for me to take it seriously, as it seemed reminiscent of a tom and jerry cartoon. Shawn just bounced like a pin ball and then got the win via screw job. Good for what it was, but I don't get how ****3/4 can be justified.
Guest Kahran Ramsus Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Bob, you forgot about HHH/Foley.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Rated that at the same levle as you rated Jericho/HHH? Personally, I didn't think they were very close in quality at all.
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 87 wargames on 7/4/87 was the best one ever. Wargames 92 is in a close second. Wargames 91 is third. that is 4th. Reason the one stop drop is because it wasn't as good as 91 and wasn't the same type of brawl as the ID4 one. It was the same match but the first one blew it away because it was well, the first one. My ratings are on entertainment and action. 96 had both. But, this match unlike 93 wasn't trying to do blade spots. They just fought. So it was a solid match. 93 had 4 or 5 times ramming and messing into the cage and no blade jobs. It doesn't live up to the two right before it. HIAC 1 was the best match and HBK's last good match. He made Undertaker look unstobbable and basiclly built up to the big bump. Taker beat the shit out of HBK and HBK cheated like a mother fucker just to get some offense. Then Taker went back on the asskicking. It was basiclly HBK carrying Taker to **** match. It would be a ***** but the run in...errr....walk in killed it. I hate run ins leading to pin falls. HBK could have done the Eddy Guerrero pinning combo(belt shot, chair/pipe shot, ram into exposed turnbuckle, AND Flair roll up) for the win and it would have been a great match and match of the year. But it only a great match. Plus, any match that has HBK made into a bitch fucking owns.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 I've only seen Jericho v. HHH once and I really got into the whole match. When I buy the DVD I'll watch it again. Foley-HHH- I don't know, something just seemed "off" to me. I couldn't put my finger on it but something just didn't seem right.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 87 wargames on 7/4/87 was the best one ever. Wargames 92 is in a close second. Wargames 91 is third. that is 4th. Reason the one stop drop is because it wasn't as good as 91 and wasn't the same type of brawl as the ID4 one. It was the same match but the first one blew it away because it was well, the first one. My ratings are on entertainment and action. 96 had both. But, this match unlike 93 wasn't trying to do blade spots. They just fought. So it was a solid match. 93 had 4 or 5 times ramming and messing into the cage and no blade jobs. It doesn't live up to the two right before it. HIAC 1 was the best match and HBK's last good match. He made Undertaker look unstobbable and basiclly built up to the big bump. Taker beat the shit out of HBK and HBK cheated like a mother fucker just to get some offense. Then Taker went back on the asskicking. It was basiclly HBK carrying Taker to **** match. It would be a ***** but the run in...errr....walk in killed it. I hate run ins leading to pin falls. HBK could have done the Eddy Guerrero pinning combo(belt shot, chair/pipe shot, ram into exposed turnbuckle, AND Flair roll up) for the win and it would have been a great match and match of the year. But it only a great match. Plus, any match that has HBK made into a bitch fucking owns. Gotta disagree on the last good match. HBK had great matches v. Austin and Taker. I don't think HBK doing a Flair pin would've worked cause I don't know- I just wouldn't have liked it. The Kane run-in is like okay- We obviously know HBK can't win on his own so why not get some big seven foot monster to do it for him. Works for me. HBK cheating to win- I would'nt have liked the match as much as I do. The Kane run-in just seemed liek the right way to end it
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 you knew what the big bump would be before it even started? And you knew Foley was going to job. So it felt anticliamtic.
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 Well I watched the match on video so I knew all the big bumps- who knows- but I liked HIAC 1 and 6-way more
Guest Austin3164life Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 The HIAC match should be saved as the Pre-main event match for Survivor Series. Have a Wargames like match with 10 guys to see who the Sole Survivor is. The fact that it would be one HIAC match out of the year would make it anticipated, and I have a soft spot for Survivor Series, because it stands alone with almost three months away from each other 'Big 5' ppv. Something like a Wargames Survivor match would do Survivor Series a world of good.
Guest Kotzenjunge Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 I haven't seen the first one, but I saw the others. I'd get the tape that has the first one, but I have yet to see it anywhere. Anyways, my favorite was Foley/Trips, and least favorite was Bossman/UT. The six-man was entertaining, but kinda slow in a lot of areas. However, the Rock/Austin faceoff was tremendous, and I was marking like a little girl watching it. I guess for me, the latest version was my middle ground. Fo sheez, Kotzenjunge
Guest bob_barron Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 I haven't seen the first one, but I saw the others. I'd get the tape that has the first one, but I have yet to see it anywhere. Anyways, my favorite was Foley/Trips, and least favorite was Bossman/UT. The six-man was entertaining, but kinda slow in a lot of areas. However, the Rock/Austin faceoff was tremendous, and I was marking like a little girl watching it. I guess for me, the latest version was my middle ground. Fo sheez, Kotzenjunge HIAC1 is on the Taker DVD. Rock v. Austin facing off and the cool spots make me love that match. I love how Angle wins in the end and Austin is like: the fuck? and gives him a stunner
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 21, 2002 Report Posted August 21, 2002 In the '93 match they were "trying" to do blaid jobs? They obviously weren't trying, becaues no one bladed. '96 had just as many opportunites for them to blade, and never took any of them. So Wargames I blew away Wargames II because it happened first? Your logic is just flying all of the place here. Michaels bumping was way too ridiculous in that match, as he over-sold everything and just got his ass kicked the entire time. Cheating to get ahead is fine and good, but when you can tell early on that the match is just going to be Shawn bumping for twenty minutes, it's a little hard to build any drama because the only interesting part is how far Shawn will go in killing himself. Albiet, Shawn did some smart things in that match (attacking the camera man to get the door open) but in the end, it lead to him taking more ridiculous bumps without any credible damage to Taker. Nothing Shawn did worked, not the Super-kick, not chair shots, and so it's just a matter of waiting around for Shawn to die again. And die he does; the table spot is pretty ridiculous, but it's also very contrived and takes too long to set up. The screw job finish just sowered it more. Not a MOTYC for that year, even it was just North America. Austin/Hart from WM 13 and Eddy/Misterio from Havok were much better.
Guest SlowChemical6 Posted August 22, 2002 Report Posted August 22, 2002 Who's idea was it in the first place? I have a hunch that it might've been the wrestlers' idea, but I'm not totally sure. It was totally, 100% Shawn's idea. Vince was going to give them the traditional steel cage, but Shawn wanted a cage that wouldn't be so confining and one that he could bump with. Hence, a mesh cell with a roof on it. You know who could have a nice Hell in the Cell match? Kurt Angle and Shane. They had probably the most brutal match since HITC II at King of the Ring last year, and there wasn't even a cell involved.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 22, 2002 Report Posted August 22, 2002 Who's idea was it in the first place? I have a hunch that it might've been the wrestlers' idea, but I'm not totally sure. It was totally, 100% Shawn's idea. Vince was going to give them the traditional steel cage, but Shawn wanted a cage that wouldn't be so confining and one that he could bump with. Hence, a mesh cell with a roof on it. You're basing your information off of the RF Video Shoot Interview with Shawn, in which he lied through his teeth the entire time. Everything on there should be taken with two gigantic grains of sault, and then some.
Guest Midnight Express83 Posted August 22, 2002 Report Posted August 22, 2002 HBK only lies when he is spinning anything involving Bret Hart, and the clique. They wanted a blue steel cage with a blue cage lid. It would just cover the ring. HBK and Russo wanted a bigger cage. Russo said surroud the ring and some, to make it look huge ala Thunderdome. HBK could have very well said mesh to make it safer by making it mesh.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted August 22, 2002 Report Posted August 22, 2002 Like I said, that interview was full of wholes and one would be well-advised to not believe everything that comes out of Shawn's mouth on that one, or whatever orifice he choses to use for talking.
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Posted August 22, 2002 Report Posted August 22, 2002 I've read other sources which confirm that piece of info. In this case Shawn wasn't lying, the basic premise; an inescapable, oversized, mesh cage, was his idea.
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