DAMMIT!

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

From 411:

 

 

Goldberg returned to pro-wrestling last night/this morning in Japan. He faced Satoshi Kojima at the All Japan show in Budokan Hall. Goldberg won the match rather quickly. No word on if he did a Jackhammer or Spear in the match. This was Goldberg's first wrestling match since the demise of WCW.

 

-----------------------------------------

Nice one Motaka. Shit like this why Ionoki's kicking your ass.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

The result wasn't suprising and Kea will probably job also. I just don't see where this is headed, jobbing out two of the best rising stars in wrestling for someone who will only be there a short while. Unless they are building for a Mutoh/Goldberg match I don't see the logic behing it. It seems so shortsighted and damaging to let Goldberg defeat wrestlers who have talent and are the future of AJ.

 

Well, at least seeing a picture of Gillberg soothes me.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Well, it appears they are building towards Mutoh/Goldberg, I don't see the point of that though since we know Muthoh's gonna win, right?

 

RIGHT?

[Guest DragonflyKid]

It's seems like Mutoh is sacrificing some of the best talent in Kojima & Kea just to put himself over even moreso. Mutoh is putting his ego ahead of what's best for AJ.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

It's seems like Mutoh is sacrificing some of the best talent in Kojima & Kea just to put himself over even moreso. Mutoh is putting his ego ahead of what's best for AJ.

Isn't that why they demoted Misawa?

 

 

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Guest Evil Ash]

Well, the results make sense. If you're gonna book Goldberg, you're gonna book him as a monster, or there's no point in him being there. Sure, a nice long match would have been cool, but realistically if it had gone longer than five minutes all of Goldberg's weaknesses would have shown, especially since he's been out of the ring so long.

 

The rest of the show looks pretty good. I really wanna see Hase vs Tenryu.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

They never should have brought him in the first place. For some short-term publicity they made some of their brightest young stars seem inferior to someone who isn't going to be in the company long-term.

 

Hase and Tenryu should have been very good and Kaz Hayashi and Jimmy Yang was said to be good.

 

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

They never should have brought him in the first place. For some short-term publicity they made some of their brightest young stars seem inferior to someone who isn't going to be in the company long-term.

 

Hase and Tenryu should have been very good and Kaz Hayashi and Jimmy Yang was said to be good.

 

I completely agree RollingChop.

 

Why arn't WE running AJPW?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I am surprised that they didn't give this more time. Kojima is a fantastic worker who could maybe have brought out a decent match with Goldie. - Sort of a Kawada/Albright 2k2 situation.

[Guest Jubuki]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

There have been some dumb things said in this forum - that's right up there with the best(worst) of them.

 

1) Before Goldberg turned prima donna, he did some different stuff in the ring, but he was NEVER a good worker. Albright, at one point, at least was that much, and even by 95, he was still willing to make an effort even if he wasn't making matches worthwhile.

 

2) Kojima's not within a country mile of Kawada.

 

3) Kawada/Albright was a bit better than 'decent', so how does getting a 'decen't match out of Bill compare?

[EL DANDY~! 0]

Hi, I'm Keiji Mutoh. Lemme sacrifice the people I have been building up to an already established US star.

 

QUE?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The idea with tough looking Gaijin has always been putting them over strongly until someone manages to defeat them. Now, AJPW used to differentiate itself in this manner by occasionally bringing in GOOD Gaijin who they would push big, but it's not as if Mutoh books to keep the old All Japan tradition alive, is it? And it's not as if AJPW hasn't already had it's fill of horrible Gaijin that got pushed, is it?

 

I mean fuck, it's sans-Mutoh All Japan, what more do you need to know? The only reason this damn abomination of a promotion makes press anymore is because Zack Arnold hasn't finished the thought-process of realizing that it blows fucking monkey ass and continues to support them.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

I'd agree with you Ricky - the idea of AJPW in 2002 with their terrible undercard, dodgy upper / midcard and a self serving little shit called Keiji on top doesn't exactly thrill the pants off me - if it wasn't for one thing; the fact that Kojima and Tenryu just had what most people who saw it are calling the match of the year so far. As long as there is great matches to be had from a promotion, they deserve a chance to be kept alive, IMO.

 

This Goldberg thing is a complete crock of shit though, seriously.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

Yeah, really. Mutoh needs to give the young blood a shot. I say he lets Kea go over him for the Triple Crown and let Kojima and Kea go at it for a while. He and Tenryu can get it on when they fuckin want.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

PlatypusFool, are you referring to the match they had on 2/24/02? Because seriously, the only reason that match got match of the night is because the rest of the card was horrible. I disagree on that match being match of the year very strongly.

 

And yeah, as if Kea was really on their "one to push" list anyway, I think it's safe to say he's jobbing his ass off there.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Goldberg tried the spear and Jackhammer but Kojima countered both of them.

 

Kea is also a gaijin (he's from Hawaii) so if a native like Kojima can't beat him, why the hell would a gaijin Kea have a chance in hell of it.

 

If Mutoh wanted to feed the best workers in AJ to Goldberg he'd have booked Anjoh and Nagai to job to him.

[Guest Evil Ash]

He's probably referring to their match from last month, which most people are positively crapping about.

 

Also, their April show was pretty good top-to-bottom. I don't think All Japan is in as bad a shape as most people.

[Guest Jubuki]

Nah, both Kojima/Tenryu matches have been pretty well touted as potential MOTYCs. The first was borderline ***. Very borderline.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

There have been some dumb things said in this forum - that's right up there with the best(worst) of them.

 

Just tryin to get you to come out an play Chris

 

1) Before Goldberg turned prima donna, he did some different stuff in the ring, but he was NEVER a good worker. Albright, at one point, at least was that much, and even by 95, he was still willing to make an effort even if he wasn't making matches worthwhile.

 

Goldberg has more versatility than Albright. Quicker, more agile, and stronger. He has a great athletic base, however his passion for wrestling limits his progress as a wrestler. That base, coupled with a smart ring general who can work around his faults, could make for a decent, watchable, match. Motivation is another story, and probably the greatest factor in whether Goldie is on or off. I was hoping that the new atmosphere and style (r at least legacy) of All Japan would put a lil fire in his belly - but maybe he is too focused on Bas Rutten and winning that 'bald and beautiful' contest Pride has...

 

2) Kojima's not within a country mile of Kawada.

 

Of course not. But he can bump and has tons of charisma - two things that could, with a slower-paced style, make for a good match with someone like Goldberg. They can afford the slower pace and limited moveselt since this is Goldbergs first tour of Japan and due to his mass popularity around the world the fans would dig pretty much well anything done in the ring.

 

3) Kawada/Albright was a bit better than 'decent', so how does getting a 'decen't match out of Bill compare

 

Well I was going more along the lines of 'Talented Japanese wrestler brings out a good match with the big limited American Goof'

[Guest Jubuki]

Ring general? Are you dense? Kojima does his stuff - he's no "ring general". Maybe you should take the time to figure out what the fuck these terms you throw around mean before touching a keyboard, as charisma and bumping don't qualify. If they did, then Rob Van Dam would be King of the fucking universe and Jeff Hardy would be God with a hanky. Stop screwing around with coulds and deal with the facts: people who want to wrestle and want to have good matches don't sit on their asses for 2 years collecting a paycheck and then come back for 4-minute squashes. They wrestle for the paydays.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Ring general? Are you dense? Kojima does his stuff - he's no "ring general". Maybe you should take the time to figure out what the fuck these terms you throw around mean before touching a keyboard, as charisma and bumping don't qualify. If they did, then Rob Van Dam would be King of the fucking universe and Jeff Hardy would be God with a hanky.

 

Being a 'ring general' you have to know how to use your strengths and your opponents strengths in the context of the match, no? The bumping and charisma fall into this catagory with Kojima and Goldberg. Have Goldberg do a power move and have Kojima respond with an astonished look on his face. Have Kojima try and mount an offense and have Goldberg blow it off - Kojima reacts, looks to the crowd, pounds the mat, etc. The fact that it's goldberg in japan should have the crowd hot enough to carry that out for at least 10 minutes. Have Kojima get a near fall to give him a lil bit of his heat back, but in the end Goldie comes out on top. Of course a lot of this depends on Goldies physical condition and the crowd - but in terms of Kojima carrying the load - it could be done.

 

Stop screwing around with coulds and deal with the facts: people who want to wrestle and want to have good matches don't sit on their asses for 2 years collecting a paycheck and then come back for 4-minute squashes. They wrestle for the paydays.

 

Agreed. I was too naive to expect that much from Goldberg, but that's me, I don't actually hate Goldberg.

[Guest J*ingus]

Guys, it's fucking Goldberg, what did you expect? That he would pull a Hogan and magically add a star or two to his match rating just cuz he's in a different country? Of course he isn't jobbing. He's worse about that than HHH ever was.

[Guest PlatypusFool]

"PlatypusFool, are you referring to the match they had on 2/24/02? Because seriously, the only reason that match got match of the night is because the rest of the card was horrible. I disagree on that match being match of the year very strongly."

 

No, no, I mean their TC match from July. I didn't hear the 2/24 match pimped as a MOTY, just a good match and match of the show. The July match was longer and apparently much better, and I'm inclined to believe it for now, especially the Ichiban Puroresu guys.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Alrighty then, I'm still not sure those two are capable of it, even though this has been a pretty bad year for matches. From what I've heard, most of the good stuff has come from Joshi this year, but whatever. I also think it's pretty obvious that Kojima and Tenryu are the only good workers in the company (even that is kind of iffy) and with Tenryu on the outs, who else is Kojima supposed to have good matches with? Kea? Mutoh? Fuchi?

 

Barring a complete come-back from Kawada, I don't see them ever having a really good match ever again, unless Kaz Hayashi manages to find someone else really good to work with on the undercard.

[Guest Evil Ash]

Goldberg beat Kea in about 4 minutes with a single leg powerbomb (whatever that is).

 

I also think it's pretty obvious that Kojima and Tenryu are the only good workers in the company (even that is kind of iffy) and with Tenryu on the outs, who else is Kojima supposed to have good matches with? Kea? Mutoh? Fuchi

 

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but most feds only have one or two really good guys. NJPW has Nagata and maybe Tenzan, NOAH has Akiyama and maybe Omari, AJPW has Kojima and Tenryu. Plus I think Kea is pretty damn good, and Kawada should still be pretty tops. Most of the other big names out there are really quite old. That's just how Japan is these days.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I'm guessing the Single Leg Powerbomb is just a Blue Thunder. Whatever.

 

NJ has Nagata, Tenzan, Nishimura, Sasaki, who can all be good when given the chance. That's not even counting Liger, Samurai, Inoe, Nogami, and Silver King, who are outstanding juniors.

 

Agreed, NOAH is the pits, though I think if one were to select good workers, they would be Kanemura, and Marofuji (when he returns). Akiyama, Misawa, and Takayama can be good, too, but are a little inconsistent.

 

And like I said, Tenryu is leaving soon. Once that happens, AJPW won't have anyone who can deliver in the ring. Kojima is a fun worker, but he can't carry a whole promotion of slugs to decent matches, and Kawada has no reason to even come back to wrestling, in my opinion. If he wants to have a re-match with someone who cares, maybe there's a chance of getting something good out of Kojima (they had a good little encounter in the NJ/AJ 5 on 5 series last year) but otherwise, he's just going to tarnish his legacy even more. After seeing his "performance" on 2/24/02, I'd be completely satisfied never seeing him get in the ring again. Depressing.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Here is the funniest bit. After losing to Muto, Kea had this to say (from IchibanPuroresu):

 

"Muto was strong... I did not have heart today. I was not myself. I will be a new Kea against Goldberg tomorrow! Goldberg showed today that he is very strong, but this will be my big chance. A new Taiyo Kea will be shown!"

 

Hmmmm, so this "new" Taiyo Kea is one that loses in three minutes? I think he should have stuck with the "old" one.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Yeah, and nice to see the entire Kea/Mutoh split blown off already at the expense of little Kea. I hope Mutoh's legs have to be amputated.

[Guest Downhome]

I can not find it at the moment, but I'll be working on it. Anyhow, I just read earlier today that they are planning on a Goldberg/Mutoh Main Event, at a big show in October I believe it was, so yeah, they are obviously trying to build up for that one.

 

For the record, I wouldn't bash Goldy untill you have actually seen the match, just saying.

[Guest Evil Ash]

Actually, I've heard that Tenryu isn't leaving any time soon, that that was actually a rumour. He decided he'd have more power (or money, I forget) in AJ.

 

Of course, that said, if he leaves in a month I won't be surprised.

 

AJ shouldn't have let Tanaka go. They could have made him something, I think.

 

Heh, if Tenryu leaves maybe Kawada will go join ZERO ONE. That'd rule.