Forget Angle Benoit and Jericho!

[Guest Will Scarlet]

I do not mind if Kane ends up getting pushed. I always kind of figured that Kane will be pushed into Taker's spot after Taker finally retires, so that Kane can take over as the "main event hoss," for lack of a better term. I do wonder when Taker's last run will be though. Every time it seems like they are going down that road, he suddenly gets pushed hard again.

[Guest HossSauce]

Well, Kane's matches against Test, with Taker against Kanyon/DDP and Kronik were all pretty dreadfull.

 

Test? Not as dreadful as some people make it out to be.

 

Kanyon and DDP? That was a squash match that was booked for the sole purpose of punishing DDP for being a jerk backstage. That was pure politics.

 

Kronik? Like I said, everybody knows that it was all Kronik's fault. Including Undertaker, who got so pissed that he screamed, "Fuck!" in the middle of it all.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I'm not saying Kane shouldn't be pushed. I mean the marks like him. As a wrestler, I find nothing of interest in his work. Sure he and Angle work well together, but Angle should be miles above that. He nearly broke Benoit's neck, so I would prefer if he was kept away from him too.

[Guest HossSauce]

You're right. He should work with Tenzan.

[Guest AndrewTS]

He's 6'9" and 275+ so he is never going to wrestle like a "worker". You are not going to see the Rolling Chokeslams.

 

When are you people going to get it through your thick heads: there is a big man style and you cannot compare it with the technical style or the high-flier style.

That doesn't mean he has to SUCK. Vader was a GREAT big man. Kane does three minute chokes and competed in three legit worst match of the year contenders last year in three straight PPVs (Fill in the blanks)

We need Bischoff out here to unify this with the HOSSES! thread.

 

Anyway, I don't expect hosses to do shooting star presses, hurracanranas, or Space Flying Tiger Drops.

 

However, I want to see entertaining matches. I want to see varied offense, whether it is RVD spots or maybe a wicked powerbomb or suplex. SELLING, even if not as much as smaller wrestlers. I don't want to see Taker gritting his teeth or saying "ahhhhhhh..." like Benoit and Angle are massaging him. Hosses have the strength to do suplexes, they can do cool looking moves, albeit not always cruiser moves. However, Awesome gets special mention because--not just his high-flying ability, but his varied offense.

 

Why do we think the "hosses" suck? Watch a match...punch punch, whip, clothesline. Picking up, opponent offense...hoss back on offense? Punch, punch, choke...big boot (HIGH KNEE!~ if it's Triple H) or maybe a powerslam. Hoss wins with a semi-impressive move, which would be more impressive if they actually did anything else interesting since the bell. That sucks. Two hosses are even worse. If I wanted to see a pre-determined match with two roid freaks punching each other constantly, I'd watch boxing.

 

Keep in mind that the bigger you are, the more easily you get winded, the less mobile you are, and the more difficult it is for YOUR OPPONENT to do moves on you. Big show matches don't just suck because Show has such limited offense, but also because WHAT THE HELL are you supposed to do against him?! Moves that involve you picking him up are out unless your Brock another hoss, and even then you can't do much.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Kanyon and DDP? That was a squash match that was booked for the sole purpose of punishing DDP for being a jerk backstage. That was pure politics.

 

what? DDP was being a jerk? Where did you hear this?

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

DDP's friends with Eric Bischoff..

Vince hates Bischoff's guts..

You do the math.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I see..thanks for the clarafication.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

You're right. He should work with Tenzan.

Hmmmm, you are an odd young man, who appears to be trying to raise my ire.

 

I would rather Kane wasn't in the ring with Tenzan.

[Guest Brian]

But does being the best of the big man workers deserve a push. Kane's decent at best.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

I bet that PROPORTIONATELY, Kane is faster for his size than Benoit is his for his size.

Oh, well, since you put it like that........

 

.......the answer is still no. An emphatic NO.

 

::looks at the handling of Jericho::

 

The WWE can take a Kane push and shove it up their ass.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Yeah, I agree. In the WWE at the minute saying "he is a good big guy" is like saying "He is a slightly smaller pile of shit".

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

DDP's friends with Eric Bischoff..

Vince hates Bischoff's guts..

You do the math.

But how does that translate into DDP being a jerk backstage.

 

Kanyon and DDP? That was a squash match that was booked for the sole purpose of punishing DDP for being a jerk backstage. That was pure politics.

That's just bullshit on the WWE's part. Take care of that stuff backstage. 2 talented workers don't need to be made an example of in front of the fans because of something that happened backstage, something that 99% of the fans know nothing about.

[Guest Brian]

DDP was getting heat for having a big head backstage and taking his bumps awkwardly.

[Guest AndrewTS]

That BS aside, what did DDP do to job to Sara Taker?

[Guest Just call me Dan]

The handling of DDP was one of the great travesties of wrestling. Page accepted a buyout of his contract and agreed to get paid substantially less than any other former WCW contracted wrestlers would have gotten. He did it because he loved wrestling and he wanted to get his last good run in. The guy busted his ass in the ring and bumped in a way that made his opponent's offense look good. He just so happened to be the 1st foreigner in and was frowned upon. This was in an unfortunate time when Undertaker's word was gospel and he was at a near unbeatable level. No one stuck up for the guy and he lost his career and had his small legacy pissed upon by Vince and everyone else. When he took that mask off, I marked like a little bitch and I'm sure everyone else watching around the world did the same. The guy could have drawn and we , the fans, were deprived of dream matches like Rock/DDP, battle of people's champs, Austin/DDP Cutter vs Stunner and even a 1 on 1 match with Taker vs DDP could have been huge. Watch Wrestlemania again. He's just happy to be out there. Then you have Hall, Hogan and Nash who come in and get millions to kill the company and stink up the ring. Fuck anyone who doesn't feel sorry for Page. It's a damned shame.

[Guest Anglesault]

That's number 17846458 on my list of reasons to hate Hardcore Holly, BTW: Ending DDP's career. And don't give me this "It was an accident" excuse. Bob Holly is a bitter, self inflated jackass who wrestles a style meant to hurt people.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

 

Damn stupid biased WWE.

D-lo injures Droz, and he gets buried.

Holly injures DDP, and they don't say a word.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Well, here in the UK on a radio station (an out of character) DDP seemed to Like Bob Holly.

 

And didn't DDP end his own career by doing a superplex?

[Guest the pinjockey]

Kronik? Like I said, everybody knows that it was all Kronik's fault. Including Undertaker, who got so pissed that he screamed, "Fuck!" in the middle of it all.

You mean that everyone UT talked to before anyone else could knows that it was all Kronik's fault. I am not going to say that Kronic could hold their own in the ring (I was a Brian Clarke fan for a stretch though) but nobody was selling at all in that match. Just because somebody no-sold UT's offense they are poor workers, but when UT no-sells Kronik's offense (and they are the same size people so it should realistically hurt) noone says a goddamn word. It must be nice to be a "locker room leader".

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Who knows how it ended but I'd be more inclined to blame Holly. That guy really shouldn't have a job as anything but a trainer. The main focus of any wrestler's career is to be the best and one day at least get to that level. not only has bob never been there but he getting old, bald, has a chronic injury, can't work, doesnt have a pushable gimmick and hasn't wrestled on PPV much in the past 2 years. Time to hang up those ugly trunks and white boots and train tough enough kids. Him taking up any time for guys who still have a shot is ludicrous and selfish when he'll never have any career direction.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Tom Zenk utterly crucified DDP in one of his recent columns, feeling he got what he deserved for his WCW stint. DDP got his push by being neighbors with Bischoff, as well as--accept as much as you think--wife-swapping with him. Also, DDP isn't much of a good natural worker, so if he had a good match on PPV, chances are he planned out every single detail and thoroughly rehearsed it. A good example would be Goldberg's best match ever, when he faced DDP at Havoc after that horrible Warrior vs. Hogan match. Even Keith liked Goldberg-DDP.

 

And I find DDP very annoying on the mic...but instead of having a clean slate, apparently any excuse was used to destroy his career. Maybe he didn't shake Taker's hand or something. Or maybe made an "indecent proposal."

 

And I agree with Anglesault on Holly. He's a bitter son of a bitch who is never going anywhere, and any trainer that let Maven and Jackie Gayda pass with flying colors has be to shitty at even that. Unless everyone else was so terrible they had to pick SOMEONE! Ironically, didn't the "Anglesault" break Holly's arm? What's the story behind the name, AS, for the sake of a newer poster?

[Guest Anglesault]

And I agree with Anglesault on Holly. He's a bitter son of a bitch who is never going anywhere, and any trainer that let Maven and Jackie Gayda pass with flying colors has be to shitty at even that. Unless everyone else was so terrible they had to pick SOMEONE! Ironically, didn't the "Anglesault" break Holly's arm? What's the story behind the name, AS, for the sake of a newer poster?

I don't think Holly trained Maven.

 

Also, DDP isn't much of a good natural worker, so if he had a good match on PPV, chances are he planned out every single detail and thoroughly rehearsed it.  

 

I don't see a problem with that, honestly.

 

No story on the name. I did go around with the tag "Someday He will Hit" as I honed my craft, though.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Holly was one of the TE trainers, as well as in TE2. Also, Maven didn't appear on TV right after TE ended...so it's probably a collective blame to be deserved. And I wouldn't really have a problem with how DDP prepped for a match, but it would likely mean most TV matches wouldn't be too good (less if any prepping).

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Never in my years have I heard that Bisch got a peice of Kimberly. Holy shit if that happened. But seriously, whether he mapped out his shit or not, h wasn't bad. He worked hard and was a great face or heel, he really could hold a crowd. He got what he deserved from Steiner but his career should have never gotten that treatment. I'm sure a lot of guys did some things we may not agree with to get on the boss's good side. We may just not know of them.

[Guest Brian]

Zenk's always been bitter about DDP.

 

Holly replaced Tazz, the original tough guy trainer.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Zenk's always been bitter about DDP.

 

Holly replaced Tazz, the original tough guy trainer.

"Tough E-NUFF!"

 

That's right, though...blah...I completely forgot since I didn't watch it. Still, Cracka Jackie is not someone to be proud of passing. And I have no major grudge about DDP, but just trying to figure out what the fuck the WWE's problem was with him. And Booker was the FIRST guy to sign up for WWE, and he got to be Rock's bitch and made to look like a complete moron the whole time he started out. Buried, then finally making a comeback after a year...and likely not to get pushed because of his age.

 

Holy shit WWE politics are fucked up.

 

EDIT: Oh--by "tough guy" you meant that Holly was playing Tazz's part of grizzled prick veteran. Sorry, my bad again.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Right, Holly did not train people in the original Tough Enough. I think Maven is decent and really can be something, but for him to get TV time when cruisers are shoved to the side isn't working. A year in OVW would do him wonders. He could be built up quite well using an absence rather than gaining experience on television.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Wait a second. Page was on WWE television way before Booke I think Page might have been in the WWE while the final Nitro was going on.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Wait a second. Page was on WWE television way before Booke I think Page might have been in the WWE while the final Nitro was going on.

The "Stalker" angle was started before the InVasion angle, and DDP was revealed before it started, but Booker T was the first to SIGN to the then-WWF. Not the first used.