What DID Brock do to earn the title?

[Guest HossSauce]

I think that Lesnar has been pushed much, much harder than the Big Show. Big Show was pushed as a fluke champion and was put over pieces of crap like the Bossman, Albert, and Viscera. Lesnar is the real deal, and the WWE is pushing him like he is the real deal.

[Guest Brian]

My own theories, part conspiracy:

 

Vince is trying to create his own farm system. He wants to eliminate the indy worker leverage, what little they have, by creating his own homegrown athletes. He wants to be able to select, hand-pick indy workers, and pay them less than they deserve. He wants his own athletes so he can tout them to veterans when resigning them and pay them less. It's all a big game of politics.

 

That said, there's more to Brock than that. He is a great bumper, especially for a guy his size. He seems to have a decent grasp of psychology. He has a legitimate, strong background. He has a good look. He's a big man. He's homegrown and young. So they found a guy who they want to head up the new generation of main eventers.

 

Think like the WWE for a minute. They tried Kurt Angle and that didn't work. They tried Jericho and that didn't work. Benoit and RVD have been exposed to the main events and that didn't light the world on fire. Edge and Test have failed to shine through everytime they comeup.

 

But Les Thatcher said he was not ready. And right aftert hat he lost his developmental deal.

 

But I'd rather see Brock than Test or Kane getting pushed.

 

Hopefully he doesn't get a big head.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Bret? Your kidding right? He wasa top guy 6-7 years.

 

My point is this...Brock is already a top guy. And the longer that he is around, he's only going to get better. So why would his status change over time? This guy is going to be a PHENOM in a few years.

so what if he is a top guy now? You do not know that he won't get stale after 3-5 years, never mind 10-20 years.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I personally don't mind Lesnar, but its too early, and its gonna damage him in the long run.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I think that Lesnar has been pushed much, much harder than the Big Show. Big Show was pushed as a fluke champion and was put over pieces of crap like the Bossman, Albert, and Viscera. Lesnar is the real deal, and the WWE is pushing him like he is the real deal.

I was talking about in WCW, not WWF.

[Guest HossSauce]

Hopefully he doesn't get a big head.

 

"It ain't braggin' motherfucker if ya back it up." - Kid Rock

[Guest HossSauce]

I was talking about in WCW, not WWF.

 

Ohh. Well, I kinda see it. Personally, I think his push is more similar to Goldberg's than it is to The Giant's. But who knows, maybe somebody will push Lesnar off the roof of Cobo Hall and he'll no-sell it.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I was talking about in WCW, not WWF.

 

Ohh. Well, I kinda see it. Personally, I think his push is more similar to Goldberg's than it is to The Giant's. But who knows, maybe somebody will push Lesnar off the roof of Cobo Hall and he'll no-sell it.

Please do not bring up that horrible gimmick. Thanks for reminding me...

[Guest Anglesault]

If they push Brock like this from now on, the company will be GONE in ywenty years. That is not a rant, that is logic. If you insist on pushing a guy the fans are lukewarm about while doing jackshit with the guys they like, they will tune out.

[Guest CanadianChick]

I was talking about in WCW, not WWF.

 

Ohh. Well, I kinda see it. Personally, I think his push is more similar to Goldberg's than it is to The Giant's.

Well, where is Goldberg now, then?

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

All Japan. :/

[Guest CanadianChick]

heh, yeah, but he is not as big as a star when he had the title, is he?

I know that he's not in the limelight so I'll say that he went down hilll when he lost the belt, even though it was because of politics.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

Sault foud the right word for his heat: lukewarm. Lukewarm is Test. Lukewarm is Al Snow. Lukewarm is Hurricane. Lukewarm is not world champion. Lukewarm is feuding in the midcard. Now, we can't argue that he doesn't draw (because thats yet to be seen) but we can argue people aren't watching for him. T.V. ratings haven't gone up, in fact they went down (not because of him, because of the Rock I think). I mean he's not a ratings sink as champ (see Hunter Hearst Helmsly, Hulk Hogan), but he's not The Rock.

 

As far as in ring skill goes, he is damn, damn good for his side. Beleiveable offense, doesn't hurt anyone, excellent bumping and suprising agility. But that's not really an argument for being champion, if it was they'd give Guerrero the title. In ring skills mean squat.

 

And as far as overness goes? He's behind Kurt Angle, Booker T, Edge, Rob Van Dam, Beniot, Undertaker and Rey Rey. On top of that, Eddie G, Jamie Knoble, Hurricane, Rico, Matt Hardy etc. etc. all have comparable heat.

 

Brock should be destroying everyone, but he shouldn't be destroying The Rock. The WWE is playing him very smart though... So we'll see what they do in the future.

[Guest cabbageboy]

Well, I'm baffled as to how Brock is possibly going to face Angle at WM. It would almost have to be non title because I cannot imagine them NOT facing in a title match before then. Brock is SMDN exclusive and people cannot jump from Raw CONSTANTLY to get a title shot. I think Angle might win the title from Brock and then job it back to him before WM.

 

I'm led to believe now that RVD gets the shot at WM. A couple of reasons for this:

 

1. He is apparently going to feud with HHH, and even if HHH squashes someone it usually leads to them getting the title after that (Jericho, Angle).

 

2. Brock didn't really beat him in the feud since RVD won the blowoff by DQ. If they didn't have more in mind here, why didn't they just job out RVD?

 

3. RVD and Brock are on separate shows now so they won't have any contact unless RVD jumps to SMDN or something.

 

4. RVD is simply a more plausible guy to rally around than Angle. In the Royal Rumble don't you think the crowd would be rooting for RVD over Angle?

[Guest Brian]

Does anyone think they might move Taker back to RAW as part of Bisch's evil plan.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Brian:

 

Thing is..Angle was never pushed as anything other than a dork (which is a midcard character) or Austin-lite..which is not Kurt. That's Steve Austin. Jericho had a good feud with the Rock, and was treated like dirt after winning the belt. Never winning clean, never being ahead in the storylines, playing second to Steph, the whole Lucy angle, and never getting any promo time. Test has never gotten a push like any of those guys, or even one like Edge's. All this "monthly Test push" stuff is nonsense. He's been booked badly, as well. Edge..eh. Too "goofy" of a character to main event, moveset lacks variety, too spear heavy. Benoit dosen't have the charisma he needs to carry a crowd through a main event match. Rob just hasn't been given the chance to main, really. Almost there but never quite there.

 

Lesnar's been booked roughly well. Even though he's had Heyman interfering for him, he wins a lot, and that's what counts. He wins, he gets to kick everybody around, and gets MONTHS of airtime devoted to him. Not like any of the other guys..

[Guest Brian]

But we're talking about the WWE here. It's not how we think, it's how they think.

 

They've booked him well at some points but they've done some political shit booking by making him sell for guys he had nobusiness selling for and nearly losing matches he had no business being in. He's been able to win with his finisher for the most part but the constant interference tends to offset that. Until the Rock, he hadn't truly looked like a main event calibre guy.

 

I agree with Angle thoughBenoit has more than enough charisma to carry a main event match. Benoit sells his character well in the ring, he just doesn't have one right now. I agree with Jericho too, that short-time as tweeners wasa perfect for both of them. Test, compared to most other talent, has gotten more TV time than he ever deserved and has gotten alot of decent pushes. Edge has gotten a consistent upper mid-card push for the last year or so but it's pretty much failed everytime he tries to interact with top tier guys. I'm sure with all the wins RVD has against top guys they consider him up there whether they want to or not.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Unfortunately for the WWE..

 

It should be the fans that say who should main event..not just in BS cases where they want to cash in (Hogan)

[Guest CanadianChick]

Edge has gotten a consistent upper mid-card push for the last year or so but it's pretty much failed everytime he tries to interact with top tier guys.

Out of curiousity, can you tell me when he has interacted with top-tier guys and it has failed? The only top-teir guys I can think of that Edge has interacted with were Angle, which was good, and Hogan, but they were a tag team.

[Guest Anglesault]

But Edge's one dimensional character ruined any development, and he couldn't get elevated.

[Guest CanadianChick]

But he got elevated fro mid-card to upper mid-card...

[Guest Anglesault]

Benoit has more than enough charisma to carry a main event match. Benoit sells his character well in the ring, he just doesn't have one right now.

Oh come ON already wit this Benoit has charisma argument. I love Benoit (In a manly way)as much as the next guy, but he has NO charisma. That's why he has to be the silent but dealy heel, because he is quite possibly the most boring face character in the WWF, INCLUDING Angle, because he has to talk. He plays the SbD heel perfectly, and it gets him over, and for the most part, hides his lack of charisma.

 

And if fan fic has taught me anything, it's that the only way that Benoit can get a personality is by having sex with HHH and Kurt Angle.

[Guest Anglesault]

But he got elevated fro mid-card to upper mid-card...

And he'll have a bitch of a time getting into the mains. First of all, who the fuck has heard of a surfer dude from Toronto?

 

 

And Edge is his own worst enemy. He's too stupid to cut anything but the degrading humiliating promo against the other guy. As Mick Foley said "Never call your opponent a worthless piece of shit, because if you win, you've only beaten a piece of shit. If you lose, you just lost to a piece of shit." Edge goes out there week after week, basically writing off his opponent. He screws himself.

[Guest CanadianChick]

AS, if you haven't noticed yet, Edge hardly ever cuts promos anymore. ANd doesn't the Rock do the same thing? And I hate to nitpick, but didn't Angle do practically the same thing to Rey? He called him a midget who had no chance against him and he beat him and degraded him on the next Smackdown.

[Guest AndrewTS]

I think Brian had excellent points. Vince doesn't like pushing his big name acquisitions...he cut HWA loose but if business picks back he may re-buy them. The WCW had the Power Plant, and although most of the guys we saw come out of there were green, the farm leagues would give him plenty of ring-ready talent, already tested in front of live crowds. If a "big name" doesn't want to take a pay cut--find, then Vince can hire 3 or 4 more guys for the price of one main eventer in his waning days.

 

Vince can rule with an iron fist, and not have to worry about indy talent, and with no real close competition, he never has to try to lure away another company's talent for more money.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Yes, but Kurt's gimmick is that he's an arrogant prick. Edge's is not.

[Guest Anglesault]

Rocky is already made. I could run in and pin him and he would still be over. It does nothing to kill his character, even when he loses, and it helps the other guy, because he proves Rock wrong.

 

Edge may not do it anymore (He hasn't cut a promo in a while), but after doing it to Storm, Christian, Regal, Angle and Jericho. With Eddy, he just humiliates and gets the upper hand over him EVERY FUCKING WEEK. Name ONE show where Eddy left standing tall over Edge. Plus, he rendered 9 minutes of arm work useless at Summerslam.

 

With Angle

 

a) He wasn't climbing the ladder against Rey, so it had no adverse affect on his career.

B) Rey got the upperhand everytime they fought up until Summerslam, so he looked good.

c) Rey looked like he could win that match a couple of times.

 

Trust me, Edge is apporaching HHH levels of telling his opponent that he can't beat him and PROVING it.

[Guest chirs3]

If memory serves, this past Smackdown Eddy came out on top, and didn't get speared to death afterwards.

 

If memory serves.

[Guest CanadianChick]

. Name ONE show where Eddy left standing tall over Edge.

How about on Smackdown this week?

[Guest Anglesault]

. Name ONE show where Eddy left standing tall over Edge.

How about on Smackdown this week?

Did something happen after Eddy ran from Edge in horror when he was beating down Rikishi?

 

Yes, but Kurt's gimmick is that he's an arrogant prick. Edge's is not.

 

Another good point.