Brock bombing as champ?

[Guest EI Cubano]

Blaming Brock Lesnar for poor ticket sales a mere week after his title win is one of the most misguided arguements against Brock that I have ever heard. For starters, it's a well documented fact that for almost any popular culture live entertainment arena show, the first week that they go on sale is going to see about 60% of the total ticket sales taking place. I wouldn't say that people were just sitting around their apartments watching Summerslam with $35 in hand and ticketmaster cued up saying to themselves "I am only going to the Mulberry Pond Center to see rasslin' if Brock Lesnar loses this match!". It's going to be the same roster for the house shows regardless of who wears the shiny gold belt to the ring. Ticket sales are down across the board because WWE just isn't delivering that good of house shows these days, especially when a good deal of the on air talent (Hogan, Michaels, The Rock) doesn't even appear these days and Kevin Nash, Steve Austin and others are MIA. Blaming two poorly attended house shows on Lesnar days after he won the belt is like blaming the crashing stock market on the celebrity who rang the opening bell a week prior. When you look at the numbers, Brock IS finally starting to "draw". I would bet my left arm that SummerSlam goes into the books and the second (maybe third behind No Way Out, but I doubt it) grossing WWE PPV of the year and the match between Lesnar and the Rock was built to perfection. People not only threw down $30 to see the Rock take on Lesnar, but if the crowd reaction was any indication, they threw down $30 to see Brock Lesnar BEAT the Rock. His segment on Raw was the highest drawing of the evening the night after he won the title. If you think the Lesnar title run is bombing so badly I would hate to know who you would put it on, because everyone besides Kurt Angle seems like a horrible choice right about now.

[Guest Brian]

"If you think the Lesnar title run is bombing so badly I would hate to know who you would put it on, because everyone besides Kurt Angle seems like a horrible choice right about now."

 

Mike Sanders?

[Guest Redhawk]

Like I said, babyfaces sell house shows, no matter who the champion is. I went to a house show here in Seattle the same day as the Super Bowl (it was held before the game started, so I'm not THAT much of a wrestling geek). Anyway, although Jericho was the champ, it was pretty obvious that people had paid to see Triple H, RVD, Ric Flair, and hoped that MAYBE Stone Cold and The Rock might show up (they didn't).

 

Given El Cubano's point about tickets going on sale way before Brock even won the belt, even the shows that have sales post-SummerSlam might be low. The house shows that Brock will be on are Smackdown roster shows, and Smackdown's babyface roster is weak. Undertaker will sell tickets, but Edge, Rikishi, Rey Mysterio, and Hurricane aren't going to get the job done.

[Guest EI Cubano]

Ha, actually I have it from a somewhat credible source that Sanders, X-Pac and Scott Hall may be forming a stable in NWA soon assuming X-Pac and Sanders can come to terms. Now THAT would rule.

[Guest Brian]

Please don't tell me the credible source is Bob Ryder...

 

Strong heels, when booked properly and given babyfaces in the chase, sell house shows too.

[Guest Redhawk]

Well, maybe. But I know most fans (who would be marks and/or kids) would rather see The Rock wrestle ANYONE than Jericho wrestle just anyone. Yeah, a babyface with a good heel to work with will always sell, but when they announce house shows they don't announce the matches. So getting to see Rock-Jericho would be a treat, but getting the chance to see Rock-Stasiak, Rock-Dreamer, Rock-D'Lo would still sell if the babyface is popular enough.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

That's bullshit.

 

RVD doesn't even appear on the bps plan for recovery.

 

Step 1:

 

Fire HHH and Undertaker

 

Step 2:

 

Put the title on Angle as soon as possible.

 

Step 3:

 

Have Angle go clean over a bunch of people while building up a face to supplant him at Mania.

 

Step 4:

 

Have this face lose to Angle in a ppv main event where Angle has to cheat (as opposed to going clean over all) to retain.

 

Step 5: Face wins Rumble, Belt at Mania.

 

Step 6 (AND the new step) Fire all the dead weight and make a freshish start at WrestleMania.

 

New writers are hired somewhere in there too.

 

Now...

 

The only reason you think that RVD's lack of push is my #1 problem is because that is what you want to beleive.

 

And that makes you worthless.

 

You carry a bias into every post you read.

 

"Bps is only saying that because he likes RVD"

 

"BDub has no point because he's a Guerrero fan"

 

"Rasmus hates RVD...so of course he'll say that"

 

 

Screw that.

 

People have opinions on all aspects.

 

Your inability to comprehend this makes you a waste of everyone elses time.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

People have opinions on all aspects.

Fair enough, but you really need to stop getting so worked up, I'm just stating my own opinion here - worthless or no.

 

Your opinion that the WWE should fire both HHH and the Undertaker is ridiculous. Both have plenty of use left to them if booked properly.

 

Having said that, watching NWATNA falling over themselves trying to sign both in the event of their being let go would be good for a laugh.

 

At least we agree that Eddie doesn't have what it takes to be a top tied player.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

they can do whatever they want if booked properly...

 

but their utter inability to make anyone appear at their level makes them more trouble than they're worth.

[Guest Brian]

I don't know. I'd keep Heyman and Hayes, who seem to do a fine job building stars until either a) their pushes end for no reason; or b) they have to start building around Undertaker. They did a fine job at first with the new guys and they've made Brock look much better than he did before.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

but their utter inability to make anyone appear at their level makes them more trouble than they're worth.

Well at least we agree on something bps.

 

Having said that, who thought we'd ever see Hogan putting over the likes of Angle or Brock ?

 

I can't really fault the top guys for trying to keep their places at the top of the card - it's only natural that they'd try to do so, it's the malleable booking team that deserve the blame for not doing what's best for the product and capitulating to some of the stronger locker room personalities.

 

For the life of me, I can't figure out why the Undertaker is where he is on the card. HHH is currently dating the head booker and he's still somewhat of a proven draw but the Undertaker....well, I can respect the his loyalty to the company and he does deserve to be well looked after for that - but not at the expense of the future of the company.

[Guest Brian]

The thing is...Undertaker has never drawn. I think we've gone over the numbers before but Undertaker has generally been a sideshow who the only time he was worth something was paired up with a "hot as hell" Austin.

[Guest snowfan]

The thing is...Undertaker has never drawn. I think we've gone over the numbers before but Undertaker has generally been a sideshow who the only time he was worth something was paired up with a "hot as hell" Austin.

UT is a freakshow. He was ungodly mega-agile for his size once upon a time, but that was like 5 years ago. Now he is merely 911 part 2.

[Guest Anglesault]

Blaming Brock Lesnar for poor ticket sales a mere week after his title win is one of the most misguided arguements against Brock that I have ever heard. For starters, it's a well documented fact that for almost any popular culture live entertainment arena show, the first week that they go on sale is going to see about 60% of the total ticket sales taking place. I wouldn't say that people were just sitting around their apartments watching Summerslam with $35 in hand and ticketmaster cued up saying to themselves "I am only going to the Mulberry Pond Center to see rasslin' if Brock Lesnar loses this match!". It's going to be the same roster for the house shows regardless of who wears the shiny gold belt to the ring. Ticket sales are down across the board because WWE just isn't delivering that good of house shows these days, especially when a good deal of the on air talent (Hogan, Michaels, The Rock) doesn't even appear these days and Kevin Nash, Steve Austin and others are MIA. Blaming two poorly attended house shows on Lesnar days after he won the belt is like blaming the crashing stock market on the celebrity who rang the opening bell a week prior.

You're probably right.

 

::Tantrums::

 

Damnit, I want the belt off Porkchop! Hopefully he'll be blamed anyway, and when HIS shows start going on sale, they'll tank as well.

[Guest snowfan]

Blaming Brock Lesnar for poor ticket sales a mere week after his title win is one of the most misguided arguements against Brock that I have ever heard. For starters, it's a well documented fact that for almost any popular culture live entertainment arena show, the first week that they go on sale is going to see about 60% of the total ticket sales taking place. I wouldn't say that people were just sitting around their apartments watching Summerslam with $35 in hand and ticketmaster cued up saying to themselves "I am only going to the Mulberry Pond Center to see rasslin' if Brock Lesnar loses this match!". It's going to be the same roster for the house shows regardless of who wears the shiny gold belt to the ring. Ticket sales are down across the board because WWE just isn't delivering that good of house shows these days, especially when a good deal of the on air talent (Hogan, Michaels, The Rock) doesn't even appear these days and Kevin Nash, Steve Austin and others are MIA. Blaming two poorly attended house shows on Lesnar days after he won the belt is like blaming the crashing stock market on the celebrity who rang the opening bell a week prior.

You're probably right.

 

::Tantrums::

 

Damnit, I want the belt off Porkchop! Hopefully he'll be blamed anyway, and when HIS shows start going on sale, they'll tank as well.

now now AS....

 

the only reason he is "undisputed champ" is HGH doesn't want the blame....

 

at least Angle isn't wearing the albatross...

[Guest Anglesault]

Brock is a lightning rod?

[Guest snowfan]

Brock is a lightning rod?

no

 

 

He is yet more proof that HGH is the "smartest man in wrestling"....

 

Brock will get the Blame and Hunter will remain the game....

[Guest Anglesault]

Eh, one out of two aint bad.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

That's why Hogan isn't on my shitlist.

 

It may have taken years...but Hogan has done the right thing since his return.

 

Taker and HHH need to go.

 

I don't think you lose anything with Taker. I really don't.

 

HHH can be given the ultimatum of either doing everything he is paid for without lip...or he can sit out his contract.

 

It starts with these two.

[Guest snowfan]

That's why Hogan isn't on my shitlist.

 

It may have taken years...but Hogan has done the right thing since his return.

 

Taker and HHH need to go.

 

I don't think you lose anything with Taker. I really don't.

 

HHH can be given the ultimatum of either doing everything he is paid for without lip...or he can sit out his contract.

 

It starts with these two.

Well met. If HGH thinks Uncle Vince will gleefully kill WW(f)E so Steph can bounce happily on HGH's member he will be disabused of the notion with a start one day. Vince will slit Hunter's throat once he accepts that HGH is "over" as in "over a hill".

 

I figure Hunter knows this and is attempting to ruin Brock/Angle et al so Vince is afraid of not having any "credible" champs left.

 

Time will tell.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

Undertaker needs to be put in his place but he has devoted ten plus years of his life to the WWE - such loyalty is rare enough in most fields, let alone in the world of professional wrestling and I honestly think that he deserves a lot of credit for that. He's ideally placed to put over whomever the WWE has bookmarked as being ready for the next stage - the first 'new' guy to pin him clean in the middle of the ring will receive a huge boost in the eyes of the average fan.

 

HHH is in a rather unique position but he also has the advantage of still being somewhat of a proven draw.

 

Given how eager NWATNA seem to be to feed off WWE cast offs at the moment, the last thing the WWE needs to be doing is throwing them the likes of Taker and HHH.

[Guest snowfan]

Undertaker needs to be put in his place but he has devoted ten plus years of his life to the WWE - such loyalty is rare enough in most fields, let alone in the world of professional wrestling and I honestly think that he deserves a lot of credit for that. He's ideally placed to put over whomever the WWE has bookmarked as being ready for the next stage - the first 'new' guy to pin him clean in the middle of the ring will receive a huge boost in the eyes of the average fan.

 

HHH is in a rather unique position but he also has the advantage of still being somewhat of a proven draw.

 

Given how eager NWATNA seem to be to feed off WWE cast offs at the moment, the last thing the WWE needs to be doing is throwing them the likes of Taker and HHH.

The best thing in the world would be let them stink up "TnA" rings for a while. WCW showed what a smashing success misusuing WWF castoffs could be. I am all for it for a fed that has "walking penises".

[Secret Agent 0]

I'm Just curious. Why is everyone so sure that Tripple H has any real pull backstage? Last I heard no wrestlers were being allowed into production meetings.

[Guest snowfan]

I'm Just curious. Why is everyone so sure that Tripple H has any real pull backstage? Last I heard no wrestlers were being allowed into production meetings.

When is the last you heard that?

 

I guess HGH just spontaneously winds up with his preposterous proscobis on the screen 20% to 50% a show just because he is "that damn good"?

 

poses

 

spits water...

 

He is less over than leprosy.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

What the WWE really needs is the magic man behind the scenes during the 2000 run, I can't remember his name, but he actually storyboarded EVERYTHING, you know, like an actual TV show does. What they need more than anything is storyline continuity. No more fresh starts and direction changes, just fuckin' PICK SOMETHING.

 

Brock's going to mature quickly, IMO.

 

As far as him not being a draw or whatever, NO ONE is drawing right now, from TNA to WWE to AJPW to NJPW, the wrestling biz is tough all over, so it's not a really good time to say, "Hey, so and so must be a shitty draw."

 

That would be like going into 93 and saying Bret was a poor draw in the WWF (I'm not comparing Brock to Bret, of course). Fast forward to 94, and Bret was ruling the universe, basically carrying the company on his shoulders. Look at the drop in quality from 94 to 95. Conversely, look at the jump in quality from 93 to 94. However, ratings were in the crapper all three years. The public doesn't want WWE right now, they don't want WCW, they don't want wrestling at all! Just ride out the low period like they've always done, and build a new star in the process. Things will shape up eventually. Binge and Purge.

[Guest Brian]

When Stone cold left, there was really no one to enforce that rule.