A question for the Brock-haters...

[Guest Ram]

The World Title (Or whatever you wish to call it) is for the very BEST in the business.

 

Can you tell me Brock is the best and mean it?

[Guest snowfan]

I should've known that.

 

And actually, SD didn't really "have" a headline star. It was supposed to be Rock, then Hogan.

 

All Angle's been doing is getting his pants pulled down and humilliated until just recently.

I dig that and have said the same. Angle's treatment should be criminal. My point has has much logical validity as AS' vendettas against Edge and Brock though. Angle will do fine and the fall is hardly his fault, but I promise you he will get the blame before deadtired man limping.

[Guest snowfan]

Ram the world title is to put more asses in the seats. It is a medal in a worked "sport". WWE is a business.

[Guest Brian]

True, and that's there fault, but it took Angle that and another go 'round in 2001 with Benoit, McMahon, and Austin to actually turn him into a good-great in-ring performer.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Russo said that, and look what happened to him.

 

The title SHOULD mean something other than a plot device. It's got history, it's got a legend to itself. A title isn't something that should simply be given because the owner has a hard-on for a rookie, or because a talent "wants" it. It should be protected, just like a talent. Once it's handed off enough, it means nothing.

[Guest Anglesault]

And angle worked against Benoit, Jericho, a decent-good Triple H, and the Rock. How many of those has Brock had to match-up with?

And....? They should have let him face one of those guys before winning the title then. Since they didn't (And even if he did face them, he could still prove to suck), he's a worthless lug and an all around undeserving champ. It's INSANE to award a guy the belt on what he COULD do. Should I go up to Vince and say

 

"Hey Vince, I can lift 800 pounds with one hand, but I through out my back, so I can't lift again for 8 months. Want to give me the title next PPV? I mean I CAN lift 800 pounds!"

[Guest snowfan]

Russo said that, and look what happened to him.

 

The title SHOULD mean something other than a plot device. It's got history, it's got a legend to itself. A title isn't something that should simply be given because the owner has a hard-on for a rookie, or because a talent "wants" it. It should be protected, just like a talent. Once it's handed off enough, it means nothing.

Dude you honestly think that Lesnar damages the title as much as having a geriatric cripple(UT) or an immobile slug(HGH)?

 

Lesnar has upside at least. They will NOT put it on Angle for whatever reason and he is easily the most credible champion in the fed. It has ALWAYS been a plot device and the "worthiness" is an illusion.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Still. It's a necessary illusion.

 

The belts HAVE to mean something. Look what happens when they don't..(like the Euro, IC, and Tag Titles..)

[Guest snowfan]

Still. It's a necessary illusion.

 

The belts HAVE to mean something. Look what happens when they don't..(like the Euro, IC, and Tag Titles..)

I agree.

 

The whole key is to maintain the illusion of genuine competition.

 

HGH kills that every time he opens his pie hole.

 

Lesnar is an NCAA champion and could be credible if politics would let him.

 

I think he is a lot more credible that OverBiker was.

[Guest Anglesault]

There's the C word again.

 

 

Lesnar COULD be over.

 

Lesnar COULD be credible

 

Lesnar COULD wrestle a good match.

 

Lesnar IS the world champion.

 

See the problem now?

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Here's the giant problem.

 

If a guy isn't a Hoss, or HHH..he isn't credible.

 

Look at the champions.

 

(World) Lesnar: Built up somewhat credibly, never allowed to lose, won King of the Ring, got to go over both Hogan and Rock.

(Raw) HHH: Handed the belt.

(IC) RVD: Hasn't had an honest to god feud since Eddy.

(Tag) Lance and Christian: Humilliated every time they step through the ropes.

(Womens) Molly: Do I even need to start?

*edit*

(Cruiser) Jamie Noble: Character is a goof, Nidia gets more attention.

 

Why are so many credible athletes treated like sideshow attractions? Why should Lesnar get to go over the entire roster, while Angle gets speared and pantsed by Edge? Need I even mention Jericho?

 

That's what bothers me about this. Lesnar gets treated better than 90% of the roster. And he DAMN sure isn't more special than a lot of those people.

[Guest snowfan]

There's the C word again.

 

 

Lesnar COULD be over.

 

Lesnar COULD be credible

 

Lesnar COULD wrestle a good match.

 

Lesnar IS the world champion.

 

See the problem now?

No.

 

Lesnar is not even a month old as champ. I have seen his OVW work. I suspect he is wrestling under some serious restrictions because of politics.

 

He IS capable of blowing the doors off of HGH and UT. He is not. You do the math.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I can't say that. I may hate the guy, but HHH put on some amazing work in 2000 - 2001.

[Guest snowfan]

Here's the giant problem.

 

If a guy isn't a Hoss, or HHH..he isn't credible.

 

Look at the champions.

 

(World) Lesnar: Built up somewhat credibly, never allowed to lose, won King of the Ring, got to go over both Hogan and Rock.

(Raw) HHH: Handed the belt.

(IC) RVD: Hasn't had an honest to god feud since Eddy.

(Tag) Lance and Christian: Humilliated every time they step through the ropes.

(Womens) Molly: Do I even need to start?

*edit*

(Cruiser) Jamie Noble: Character is a goof, Nidia gets more attention.

 

Why are so many credible athletes treated like sideshow attractions? Why should Lesnar get to go over the entire roster, while Angle gets speared and pantsed by Edge? Need I even mention Jericho?

 

That's what bothers me about this. Lesnar gets treated better than 90% of the roster. And he DAMN sure isn't more special than a lot of those people.

You are absolutely right.

 

Vince seems to have a hard-on for him.

 

but I guess since he has unfairly "leaped" more worthy guys we should just hope that they put the belt immediately back on HGH or UT....

 

'cause they have PROVEN they won't crown anyone else.

[Guest Anglesault]

There's the C word again.

 

 

Lesnar COULD be over.

 

Lesnar COULD be credible

 

Lesnar COULD wrestle a good match.

 

Lesnar IS the world champion.

 

See the problem now?

No.

 

Lesnar is not even a month old as champ. I have seen his OVW work. I suspect he is wrestling under some serious restrictions because of politics.

 

He IS capable of blowing the doors off of HGH and UT. He is not. You do the math.

He's only less than a month in. He should be over and having good matches before he wins the title. Simple as that.

[Guest snowfan]

I can't say that. I may hate the guy, but HHH put on some amazing work in 2000 - 2001.

Yes he did.

 

and Bret hart did in '97.

 

What have you done for me lately Jean-Paul?

 

Thing is I have yet to see HGH pull off an SSP or even a moonsault.

 

Brock can and will sooner or later.(not that HGH will ever sell it or let it happen while he is on top)

[Guest snowfan]

AS you of all people should understand what I am saying. Angle can outperform UT six ways from sunday but has to put UT over. Sooner or later Angle and Brock will shine.

[Guest Anglesault]

Here's the giant problem.

 

If a guy isn't a Hoss, or HHH..he isn't credible.

 

Look at the champions.

 

(World) Lesnar: Built up somewhat credibly, never allowed to lose, won King of the Ring, got to go over both Hogan and Rock.

(Raw) HHH: Handed the belt.

(IC) RVD: Hasn't had an honest to god feud since Eddy.

(Tag) Lance and Christian: Humilliated every time they step through the ropes.

(Womens) Molly: Do I even need to start?

*edit*

(Cruiser) Jamie Noble: Character is a goof, Nidia gets more attention.

 

Why are so many credible athletes treated like sideshow attractions? Why should Lesnar get to go over the entire roster, while Angle gets speared and pantsed by Edge? Need I even mention Jericho?

 

That's what bothers me about this. Lesnar gets treated better than 90% of the roster. And he DAMN sure isn't more special than a lot of those people.

You are absolutely right.

 

Vince seems to have a hard-on for him.

 

but I guess since he has unfairly "leaped" more worthy guys we should just hope that they put the belt immediately back on HGH or UT....

 

'cause they have PROVEN they won't crown anyone else.

Not HHH or Taker

 

NOT BROCK

 

 

RVD OR ANGLE!

 

 

 

Why do they refuse to put the belt on RVD or Angle? Do they have cooties?

 

Thing is I have yet to see HGH pull off an SSP or even a moonsault.

 

Brock can and will sooner or later.(not that HGH will ever sell it or let it happen while he is on top)

 

Ooh. An SSP. WHO THE FUCK CARES? One move is not going to make his matches good.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Another one of my gripes: Character.

 

Lesnar dosen't have it. He's simply "Big Guy With Belt".

[Guest Anglesault]

AS you of all people should understand what I am saying. Angle can outperform UT six ways from sunday but has to put UT over.

I'm not totally sure what you mean here.

[Guest snowfan]

Another one of my gripes: Character.

 

Lesnar dosen't have it. He's simply "Big Guy With Belt".

You guys are right and as I have said in my ideal world Angle would have the belt and Benoit would be the prime threat.

 

It ain't happening.

 

I can type here and wish all year, but it will NOT happen until the Hosses and Vince get it through their heads we DO not give a fig about HGH/UT.

 

I'll take Brock over HGH/UT 9 times out of 9....

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

Benoit? ¬.¬

 

To switch the subject somewhat..what should the requirements of a champion be?

[Guest snowfan]

AS it is simple. Once upon a time there was an orange Goblin who set what workrate was acceptable. He made sure guys who outshone him paid a price.

 

One day the little Hitman and HBK got the chance to shine. Suddenly it took more than Punch, Kick...kick-punch, legdrop to look like a credible wrestler. The Goblin had been exiled south.

 

Eventually we entered an era where the beer drinker got over on kick wham finisher. The zombie and the aardvark are examples of this. They are on the back nine of their influence when ratings are STILL dropping in 2003.

 

Then the next group of workers will get to go at it as the old duo will have NO stroke.

[Guest jester]

Benoit? ¬.¬

 

To switch the subject somewhat..what should the requirements of a champion be?

I think there is only one true requirement of holding the top belt, and this is simply:

 

be over. Over enough so that holding the belt would make you the most loved guy in the company, or the most hated.

 

Workrate sadly doesn't matter, only the audience's reaction to you does.

 

Now, how you get over is more complex. You can use any number of tactics. Rock doesn't use the greatest moveset, but he cuts a promo like a surgeon. Hogan is insanely over because many fans have good memories of him. That's why I think his title reign tanked. Everyone liked him enough as it was (well, except me, I hate Hogan). RVD is over because he does moves no-one else does, is young and laid-back.

 

As for heels, I can't think of heels that are truly over. Angle is the closest, but even he doesn't do really vile heel things because they'd rather make him comical.

[Guest Brian]

And angle worked against Benoit, Jericho, a decent-good Triple H, and the Rock. How many of those has Brock had to match-up with?

And....? They should have let him face one of those guys before winning the title then. Since they didn't (And even if he did face them, he could still prove to suck), he's a worthless lug and an all around undeserving champ. It's INSANE to award a guy the belt on what he COULD do. Should I go up to Vince and say

 

"Hey Vince, I can lift 800 pounds with one hand, but I through out my back, so I can't lift again for 8 months. Want to give me the title next PPV? I mean I CAN lift 800 pounds!"

My point was Angle's the only guy post-Attitude to come up actually having given some good performances in the ring and yet all of a sudden being a good wrestler is requirement of being champion. Angle was still all potential back than since he was only delivering one kind of promo and still learning in the ring and far from being good. The only decent argument out of all of this is that Brock is not over and because of that he doesn't deserve to be champ. Not based on his wrestling ability, because he's only had one chance to showcase it and one chance to actually learn and grow as a wrestler.

 

Brock's a worthless lug when he gets a chance to actually grow and improve in the ring and fails to do so. Until than, if he's stuck wrestling the spot artists and stiffs of the world, there's really no reason to comment on Brock's workrate.

[Guest cabbageboy]

I wouldn't say Brock has had just one good match. I liked two of his matches with RVD. The Raw one was pretty good and had a jolting bump to the floor by RVD. The Vengeance one was better, but RVD carried the hell out of him there.

 

I think the whole 2 titles thing was done for a couple of reasons:

 

1. To placate HHH and give him a bogus belt.

2. To put Brock on one show and not overexpose him.