Just for the sake of arguement...

[Guest godthedog]

i've seen 4 bret/flair matches: the saskatoon one, an earlier house show match that he lost, the iron man match & the souled out match. saskatoon was pretty good, souled out & the random house show were very mediocre, but the iron man match is one of the best matches i've ever seen & i haven't heard any convincing evidence to the contrary. on that match alone i'd say bret & flair could "get it together" in the early nineties, even if their other matches were unwatchable (which they weren't).

[Guest treble charged]

92: Bret/Bulldog, SummerSlam

93: I'll have to go back and watch some '93 shows before I can make a decision.

94: Bret/Owen, WM X

95: HBK/Ramon, SummerSlam

96: Hart/Austin, Survivor Series

97: Guerrero/Mysterio, Halloween Havoc

98: Austin/Foley, Over the Edge

99: I can't think of any match from that year that stands out in my mind (keep in mind, I've never seen Bret/Benoit)

2000: Triple H/Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble

2001: Austin/Triple H, No Way Out (never saw Benoit/Austin from SD)

2002: Angle/Benoit, Unforgiven

 

Personally, I liked the second Razor/Shawn ladder match more than the first one, but I haven't seen it for a little while. I'll have to go back and watch it in full blown 'smark-vision' and decide once and for all.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The matwork with Regal did have purpose as they were trying to you know- win the rounds. So by controlling on the mat- you win the round and win the match.

 

The Hog Wild was what I would call a 'fun' match. He made Eddy look like a million bucks and it was fun seeing Eddy kick the shit out of him.

 

All three of those matches I would ****

You're missing the point. The matwork fits into the rounds style of the match, but they they executed didn't tell any story beyond "Regal works holds...and Flair tries..." as if that was supposed to be compelling. Regal reeled in plenty of workers durring this period to performances exactly the same as this, and many that were better.

 

Flair doing his wacky selling for the majority of a match isn't what I would call fun. Of course Eddy brings the fun offense, but Eddy always did that, and Flair didn't bring anything more to the table to differentiate it. Looking for any depth in this shows why it was so forgettable, and why Flair should have hung it up.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

WWF Only:

1992: "Macho Man" Randy Savage vs. Ric Flair (WM 8)

1993: Marty Janetty Vs. Shawn Michaels (RAW 93)

1994: Shawn Michaels Vs. Razor Ramon (WM 10)

1995: (WCW sneaks in) Arn Anderson Vs. Ric Flair (Fall Brawl)

1996: Shawn Michaels Vs. Diesel (IYH 7)

1997: Bret Hart Vs. Stone Cold (WM 13)

1998: Stone Cold Vs. Dude Love (OTE)

1999: Stone Cold Vs. The Rock (WM 15)

2000: Cactus JAck vs HHH (RR)

2001: TLC 2 (WM 17)

2002: Shawn Michaels Vs. HHH (SSlam)

[Guest bob_barron]

Which HBK v. Jannetty match from 93??

 

Rock v. SCSA at Backlash was better then their WMXV match and there much better WWF matches then Rock v. Austin from XV

[Guest nWoScorpion]

I hate 1999 so i picked whatever came to mind that was good.

[Guest bob_barron]

Going by WWF-

Rock v. Austin from Backlash, Hardyz v. E-n-C from NM, Test v. Shane-SummSlam, Rock v. Mankind- RR

 

All matches that I think are much better then SCSA v. Rock from WMXV

[Guest nWoScorpion]

damn i fogot Rock/Mankind. Thats my pick. (I didnt see theE&C/Hardyz match in its entiety so i can't pick that one.

[Guest Brian]

1992: Flair/Hart Iron Man

1993: Tough year, have to rewatch. Probably Flair/Vader.

1994: Owen/Bret WMX

1995: Mysterio/Juventud 4/21/95

1996: Bret/Austin Survivor Series

1997: Eddie/Rey (Honorable mention: EMLL 16 man cibrenetico, 4/18)

1998: Hardys/Serial Thrillaz (OMEGA 12/5)

1999: Benoit/Hart Nitro (10/4)

2000: Villano 3 vs. Atlantis (Mask vs. Mask, 3/17) or Benoit/Regal, Pillman Show. Both great choices.

2001: Benoit/Austin, RAW in Edmonton

2002: Seriously, nothing right now.

[Guest godthedog]

"1992: Flair/Hart Iron Man"

 

i'm pretty sure this one was early 93.

[Guest HartFan86]

And it was the SD in Edmonton for Benoit/Austin, Brian. Benoit/Austin from Raw was in Calgary.

[Guest Brian]

Ehhh, memory failing a little. Throw the Los Gringos Locos vs. Santo/Octagon into the Honorable Mention for 1994. If it is 1993, and I can't find a date at the moment, probably WarGames or maybe the Bret vs. Flair, the Saskatoon title switch.

[Guest BAR]

1992: Roddy Piper vs. Bret Hart - WWF WrestleMania VIII

1993: Ric Flair vs. Mr Perfect - WWF Monday Night Raw (25/1/93)

1994: Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Tosiaki Kawada - AJPW (3/6/94)

1995: Ultimo Dragon vs. Jyushin Lyger - WAR Super J Cup 1995

1996: Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin - WWF Survivor Series 1996

1997: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio Jr - WCW Halloween Havoc 1997

1998: Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Rob Van Dam - ECW (4/4/98)

1999: Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn - ECW Living Dangerously '99

2000: Jerry Lynn vs. Rob Van Dam - ECW Hardcore Heaven 2000

2001: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho - WWF Royal rumble 2001

2002: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - WWE Unforgiven 2002

Note: These are not my all time favourite matches. Infact, a few of these matches I hardly like, but had to think of for that particular year. For other years I had 4-5 favourites, like 1994.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The list is supposed to be NA only, so 6/3/94 and J-Cup '95 are no-go.

 

Just out of curiousity, though, why did you pick Liger/Ultimo. I enjoyed that match quite a bit, but there's better stuff to be found elsewhere, including the U.S.

[Guest Cerebus The Aardvark]

I'll throw my picks in here, I guess:

 

1992--Liger/Pillman (Superbrawl)

1993--Vader/Sting (Slamboree)

1994--Bret/Owen (Wrestlemania X)

1995--Eddy/Malenko (Hostile City Showdown)

1996--Bret/Austin (Survivor Series)

1997--Bret/Austin (Wrestlemania XIII)

1998--Austin/Dude Love (Over The Edge)

1999--Edge & Christian/Hardy Boyz (No Mercy)

2000--Rocky/HHH Iron Man (Judgment Day)

2001--Rocky/Austin (Wrestlemania XVII)

2002--Angle & Benoit/Edge & Rey (No Mercy)

 

A few notes:

 

In '97, the TAKA/Sasuke match from Raw is a close second, followed by Hell In A Cell.

 

In 2000, there are about 10 other matches that could be considered; that year was ridiculous, IMO.

 

In 2001, Jericho/Rocky from No Mercy is very close, as is the Austin/Benoit match on SD from Edmonton.

 

As for 2002, I've been so uninterested in wrestling this year that I went with the match I remember the best, which occured 2 days ago. But it did kick copious amounts of ass.

 

That is all.

[Guest BAR]

The list is supposed to be NA only, so 6/3/94 and J-Cup '95 are no-go.

 

Just out of curiousity, though, why did you pick Liger/Ultimo. I enjoyed that match quite a bit, but there's better stuff to be found elsewhere, including the U.S.

Eh, throw Bret/Owen in there for 6/3/94. For '95, Eddie/Dean, ECW final match. I haven't seen a shitload of Puroresu, but I really enjoyed that match and thought it was easily the best match of the tournament. I picked an ECW match but WWF MOTY for that year would be HBK/Jarrett - IYH2.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Lyger/Ultimo was great, but Rey/Psichosis tops it, and Michaels/Ramon was clearly better than Michaels/Jarret and Guererro/Malenko, which is really overrated and not all that great.

[Guest wolverine]

That Michaels-Jarrett has got to be one of the most overrated matches ever. Yeah, it's a **** match, but no more. Michaels vs. Hall from Summerslam kills it in every way.

[Guest Brian]

Yeah, the ladder match was better than the others but I'm still debating whether it beat Juvi/Rey.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Wolverine, **** is still fucking high. You probably feel that people overrate it because of what they give it in snowflakes, but believe me, they don't have the same yardstick to judge by that you do. I'm sure your opinions are the same, it's just the stamp you put on it that throws everyone off(Not you, just in general). I'm sure most people feel that Ramon/Michaels II smokes it as well...

 

It's kind of funny because every time I run into a debate on this board, it's always Ricky and Tim agreeing on something, than everyone else going "because I liked it". No offense intended, just saying because it happens so much.

 

As for my NA MOTY...

 

1992 - Lyger/Pillman Superbrawl II, can someone explain to me the big deal about Luger-Sting/Steiners? I don't get it as being as great as what everyone else says.

1993 - Sting/Vader Superbrawl III

1994 - Bret/Owen Wrestlemania X

1995 - Ramon/Michaels Summerslam

1996 - Bret/Austin Survivor Series

1997 - EDDY~!/Rey-Rey Halloween Havoc

1998 - Dude/Austin Over The Edge, but nothing really stands out from this one

1999 - EIther the Tag from Spring Stampede, or the Owen Tribute match. My opinion on these changes daily. They both smoke the Hardys/E&C Tag from No Mercy though

2000 - I guess Cactus/HHH Royal Rumble, but I have yet to see the Memorial show, and I haven't seen much of Benoit's stuff. I tracked down Last Man Standing from Fully Loaded, deemed it crap, and never bothered to check most of the other stuff out. That match is overrated, if anything. Don't even get me started on the Iron Man Match, ugh.

2001 - Benoit/Austin from Smackdown

2002 - Either Angle/Benoit from Unforgiven, or the Tag match finals from No Mercy, which I thought was a little short personally, so I go with the former.

[Guest bob_barron]

Steiners v. Luger/Sting was 1991 BTW

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Oh, my bad. I forgot that in 1992, Luger actually faced Sting in a forgettable match from what I heard, sending him out of the company. He did not team with him in an unforgettable match, as others put it anyway. That tag match has got to be severely overrated. I mean it isn't even funny. I think I might be missing something, anyone else care to shed the light?

 

I guess I should say that I didn't pick Lucha, due to the fact that, in all honesty, I haven't seen much. From what I have seen though, is awesome. I always forget the date, but I believe it's the "When Worlds Collide" PPV, with Art Barr and Eddie Guerrero facing off against El Hijo Del Santo and Octagon. Sometime in 1994. Definite **** match at least, and high end MOTYC in my opinion.

 

As far as 1990 goes, since I didn't pick a match for it, I can't pick one now, since nothing stands out for me. 1991 is the same, but I would have to go with Bret/Perfect from Summerslam, as that was pretty damn good.

 

I really didn't reply to anyone, just adding stuff I missed. I recently realized how psychologically rich Piper/Hart is from Wrestlemania VIII, and how much better it is than people give it credit for. It has one of the best stories ever shown in a WWF ring, and it has layers after fucking layers. Great fucking match. I need to rewatch it to solidify my opinion, but I am pretty sure I will not change this opinion.

[Guest bob_barron]

I haven't seen Sting/Lex v. Steiners in a long time but I remember loving it. It was all action and had you on the edge of your seat.

 

Bret v. Piper is a great match, I love when Piper is contemplating to hit Bret with the ringbell and then decides he'd rather win fair and square.

[Guest Brian]

As far as 1990, GAB with the Southern Boys/Express was pretty good and there was the revolutionary in America at the time Eddie Gilbert vs. Cactus Jack 2/3 falls match at Autumn Armageddon 1990 that wasn't quite as good.

 

WWC is incredibly good match match. I think I'd clock it at least ****1/2.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I'm looking into seeing Southern Boys/Midnight Express real soon, but have yet to do so. Hopefully Tim will fix me up soon.

 

A note on When Worlds Colide: If you mean "high end MOTYC" for North America only, I would agree, as I can't think of anything besides Hart/Hart that tops it, including the ladder match from that year. If you mean from all over the world, though, I would say it's on the low end. Considering that it has to be compared to two of the greatest matches ever, I'd say low end MOTYC is a pretty lofty compliment in itself.

[Guest wolverine]

And by those two greatest matches ever, I'm assuming you're referring to Misawa vs. Kawada 6/3/94 and Kong vs. Toyota 11/20/94, and I totally agree. Those two matches obliterate everything in NA in 1994, and ever for that matter, IMO.

[Guest Brian]

I thought he was talking about men's only, and Sasuke/Benoit at the J-Cup.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I was reffering to Toyota/Kong 11/20. Sasuke/Benoit has always been a favorite of mine, but after recently seeing Aja and Toyota take the same general concept and raise it to an entirely new levle, I have to admit that the J-Cup just doesn't hold up. I've also heard of the Kawada/Williams TC change being just above Sasuke/Benoit, too.

 

But like I said, 11/20 and 6/3 are tough company. Sasuke/Benoit still managed to be a worthy MOTYC in probably the greatest year for them ever and deffinately one of the best junior matches I've ever seen.

[Guest wolverine]

"I've also heard of the Kawada/Williams TC change being just above Sasuke/Benoit, too."

 

That's the Champion Carnival '94 Final.

 

Here's the deal with 6/3 and 11/20 - these matches are Top 10 of all-time quality, while something like Benoit vs. Sasuke, while great, is probably something like Top 40-50.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Sorry, my bad.

 

Yes, it seems that's the general opinion, and I'm currently in agreement with it, though my viewing is still limited.