Just for the sake of arguement...

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I totally forgot about the Southern Boys/Express match in 1990, which is pretty much standing alone that year as far as NA.

Just outta curiousity, what star ratings would you give to most of the big matches from 1994, and a few other ones that we've been discussing? That tag match still hasn't been mentioned, that involving Luger/Sting and the Steiners...

[Guest bob_barron]

On first viewing I gave it ***** but I'd have to see it again

[Guest RickyChosyu]

We've been talking about a few different big matches in '94, but I'll stick to the NA ones to stay on topic:

 

Guererro/Barr v. Santo/Octagon and Hart v. Hart are probably both about ****1/2, though I haven't watched either one recently. The first one is just an awesome match that plays back to the previous events leading up to it and transcends lucha libre into a form of pure drama that almost anyone can enjoy. Great, great storytelling there. Hart/Hart is an awesome "one-upsmanship" match with each man trying to out-counter the other and showing increasing desperation to win. Bret was never better in his "ace" role than he was here.

 

Michaels/Ramon was around ****. Been quite I will since I've seen that one. I remember liking the re-match better, because it seemed like Ramon kept up with Michaels more and had a better sense on how to build the match. Still, a great outing for both men.

[Guest Loss4Words]

It's hard for me to narrow down just one match because so many great matches go totally ignored. That said, here is my top five for every year. There is a lot I haven't seen, but this is based obviously on what I have.

 

1992

1. War Games - Wrestle War '92

2. Bret Hart v Shawn Michaels - Ladder Match

3. Sting v Cactus Jack - Beach Blast

4. Bret Hart v Davey Boy Smith - Summerslam '92

5. Vader v Sting - Starrcade '92

 

1993

1. Shawn Michaels v Marty Jannetty - WWF RAW 07/19/93

2. Hollywood Blonds v Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - WCW 03/02/93

3. Vader v Cactus Jack - WCW TBS 05/93 - the match where Vader potatoes Cactus

4. Ric Flair v Mr. Perfect - WWF RAW 01/25/93

5. Ric Flair v Bret Hart - WWF Boston 01/09/93 marathon match

 

1994

1. Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon - Wrestlemania X

2. Shawn Michaels & Diesel v Razor Ramon & 1-2-3 Kid - WWF Action Zone 10/30/94

3. Bret Hart v Owen Hart - Wrestlemania X

4. Vader v Sting - Fall Brawl '94

5. Bret Hart v 1-2-3 Kid - WWF RAW 07/01/94

 

1995

1. Shawn Michaels v Razor Ramon - Summerslam 1995

2. Eddy Guerrero v Dean Malenko - Hostile City Showdown 1995

3. Raven & Stevie Richards v Pit Bulls - Gangstas Paradise

4. Chris Benoit v Eddy Guerrero - WCW Saturday Night 11/18/95

5. Rey Misterio Jr v Psicosis - Gangstas Paradise

 

1996

1. Shawn Michaels v Mankind - Mind Games

2. Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Survivor Series 1996

3. Rey Misterio Jr v Juventud Guerrera - ECW 03/96 2/3 falls

4. Shawn Michaels v Diesel - Good Friends Better Enemies

5. Shane Douglas v Chris Jericho v 2 Cold Scorpio v Pit Bull #2 - ECW Heat Wave 1996

 

1997

1. Bret Hart v Steve Austin - Wrestlemania XIII

2. Rey Misterio Jr v Eddy Guerrero - Halloween Havoc '97

3. Shawn Michaels v Undertaker - Badd Blood

4. Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Davey Boy Smith, Jim Neidhart & Brian Pillman v Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion of Doom - Canadian Stampede 1997

5. Bret Hart v Undertaker - One Night Only

 

1998

1. Billy Kidman v Juventud Guerrera - WCW Monday Nitro 11/16/98

2. Steve Austin v Dude Love - Over The Edge 1998

3. Chris Benoit v Raven - Souled Out 1998

4. Rey Misterio Jr v Juventud Guerrera v Billy Kidman - Starrcade 1998

5. Matt Hardy v Jeff Hardy - OMEGA 07/31/98

 

1999

1. Raven & Perry Saturn v Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko - Spring Stampede '99

2. Bret Hart v Chris Benoit - WCW Monday Nitro 10/04/99

3. Rey Misterio Jr. v Juventud Guerrera v Psicosis v Blitzkrieg - WCW Monday Nitro 04/19/99

4. Ric Flair v Chris Benoit - WCW Thunder 06/03/99

5. Sting v Diamond Dallas Page - WCW Monday Nitro 04/26/99

 

2000

1. Chris Jericho v HHH - Fully Loaded 2000

2. HHH v Cactus Jack - No Way Out 2000

3. HHH v Chris Jericho - WWF RAW 04/17/00

4. HHH v Rikishi - WWF Smackdown 01/06/00

5. Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho - WWF Backlash

 

2001

1. Steve Austin v Chris Benoit - WWF Smackdown 05/31/01

2. Chris Benoit & Chris Jericho v Steve Austin & HHH - WWF RAW 05/21/01

3. Chris Jericho v The Rock - WWF No Mercy 2001

4. Chris Benoit v Chris Jericho - Royal Rumble 2001

5. Steve Austin & Kurt Angle v The Rock & Chris Jericho - WWF Smackdown 11/15/01

 

2002

1. Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle v Edge & Rey Misterio Jr - WWE No Mercy 2002

2. Chris Jericho v The Rock - Royal Rumble 2002

3. Chris Benoit & Eddy Guerrero v The Rock & Edge - WWE Smackdown 08/03/02

4. Edge v Kurt Angle - WWF Backlash 2002

5. Edge v Eddy Guerrero - WWE Smackdown 09/02

[Guest Loss4Words]

Wow, now that I look at that list, I see some major flaws.

 

In 1992, change #5 from Vader v Sting at Starrcade '92 to Vader v Sting at Great American Bash '92.

 

#1 in 1993 was Sting v Vader from SuperBrawl. Bump everything else down a notch.

 

And I was having to try to hard to think of matches in 2001 and 2002, to a point where the lists don't really mean all that much.

 

Carry on.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I actually think Benoit had a MOTYC in '93 against Scorpio, but I can't remember when. Kinda funny since he didn't spend much time there...

[Guest Tim Cooke]

2/22/93 Superbrawl 1993 Benoit v Scorpio

- not a MOTYC, but defintley ****+. Superb 20 min match.

 

6/13/93 Windham v Scorpio

- This is the Scorpio MOTYC from 1993. My favorite US Singles match ever. The BEST Windham match that I have seen.

 

Tim

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Thanks for the info.

 

I always thought that it 0wned Flair-Vader, and pretty much anything from the WWF at the time. The only ones above it are the Sting-Vader strap match, and supposedly this Windham match from the same year. My memory is a bit hazy, and it's not like I actually watched these matches in 1993, so I would not know. I guess that makes it a US motyc, barring some suggestions from others.

 

Btw Tim, elaborate on why the Windham match is as good as you make it sound...

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Windham and Scorp worked a 12:52 match as perfect as I have ever seen in the US style. Windham was the grizzly veteran and Scorp was the energetic youngster with the high risks moves. The basic psych was could Scorp upset Windham.

 

Scorp brings a great set of newer moves to the table while Windham brings an EXCELLENT set of Heavyweight moves for 1993 US. Not one rest hold, a great crowd, and a great flow puts this up for me as better than anything else singles wise that I have seen in the US.

 

The Flair/Windham series comes close but Flair is just being Flair there and not taking it up to the next level.

 

Tim, who knows that on 7/7/90, the BEST US Match of the 1990's took place.....figure that one out for youself

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

I know, I know...

 

Lex Luger v. Mean Mark Callous

 

On a more serious note, what's the name of the Midnights' theme in WCW? I know that it's a regular song, but I can't figure out the real name. www.bobbyeaton.com is where you can go to find it if you don't remember. Any advice is appreciated.

[Guest Jubuki]

Hey, another thread full of xenophobic, anti-intellectual jackassery that needs my view on the world of wrestling!

 

HERE YOU ARE:

 

1992: Toyota/Yamada vs. Kansai/Ozaki - 11/26

1992 US: Liger vs. Pillman, 2/29

 

1993: Hokuto vs. Kandori - 4/2

1993 US: Sting vs. Vader - 2/21

 

1994: Misawa vs. Kawada - 6/3

1994 US: Hart vs. Hart - 3/20

 

1995: Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue - 6/9

1995 US: Michaels vs. Hall - 8/27

 

1996: Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue - 12/6

1996 US: Ultimo Dragon vs. Rey Jr. - 11/24

 

1997: Kobashi vs. Misawa - 1/20

1997 US: Guerrero vs. Rey Jr. - 10/25

 

1998: Kohsaka vs. Tamura - 6/27

1998 US: Was there anything good that year?

 

1999: Aja Kong vs. Meiko Satomura - 9/15

1999 US: Raven/Saturn vs. Benoit/Malenko - 4/11

 

2000: Takahashi/Nakanishi/Ito vs. Mita/Shimoda/Maekawa - 11/23

2000 US: Fuck, who cares?

 

2001: Hokuto vs. Satomura - 4/29

2001 US: Benoit vs. Austin, that May Smackdown!

 

2002: There hasn't been shit anywhere that's been that good - worst wrestling year in recent history.

 

Gotta love the unwashed masses who'll cry foul when someone mentions foreign wrestling but don't have the guts to have their opinions corrected by watching GREAT WRESTLING, which, after all, is the whole point of talking about wrestling.

[Guest godthedog]

Hey, another thread full of xenophobic, anti-intellectual jackassery that needs my view on the world of wrestling!

 

Gotta love the unwashed masses who'll cry foul when someone mentions foreign wrestling but don't have the guts to have their opinions corrected by watching GREAT WRESTLING, which, after all, is the whole point of talking about wrestling.

well...that's a new one.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Well, the thread asked for US only, so that's what I gave. If it wanted foreign, I'd give that too.

[Guest Jubuki]

I don't seem to recall any by-law discussed in this forum which stated that any and all foreign wrestling goes to the foreign folder and becomes off-topic when entering this folder. Which was what Ricky was mostly basing his erroneous "NA only" disclaimer on - no by-law, no such disclaimer. There you are, then.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

My bad, I thought he wanted to keep the argument strictly NA, as he pointed that out a few times in the thread.

 

But I tried to get to your site, but there's a gateway error. Is it down, or did the address change?

[Guest Jubuki]

Still workin' for me. Try airraidcrash.tripod.com if the domain name isn't all that and a bag of chips.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Alright, thanks. I never put the tripod in, I just used the one from your Profile. Thanks again...

[Guest wolverine]

If overall picks are what we're talking about, then I go:

 

1990: Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, AJPW 9/1 - *****

1991: Jumbo Tsuruta/Masa Fuchi/Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada/Kenta Kobashi, AJPW 4/20 - ****1/2

1992: Toshiyo Yamada/Manami Toyota vs. Dynamite Kansai/Mayumi Ozaki, AJW 11/26 - *****

1993: Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue, AJPW 12/3 - *****

1994: Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada, AJPW 6/3 - *****

1995: Mitsuharu Misawa/Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue, AJPW 6/9 - *****

1996: Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue, AJPW 12/6 - *****

1997: Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi, AJPW 1/20 - *****

1998: Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka, RINGS 6/27 - *****

1999: Aja Kong vs. Meiko Satomura, GAEA 9/15 - ****1/2

2000: Kaoru Ito/Momoe Nakanishi/Nanae Takahashi vs. Etsuko Mita/Mima Shimoda/Kumiko Maekawa, AJW 11/23 - ****1/4

2001: Kaoru Ito vs. Momoe Nakanishi, AJW 9/16 - ****1/2

 

MATCH QUALITY ORDER

 

1. 1998

2. 1992

3. 1996

4. 1994

5. 1993

6. 1995

7. 1997

8. 1990

9. 1991

10. 2001

11. 1999

12. 2000

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I don't seem to recall any by-law discussed in this forum which stated that any and all foreign wrestling goes to the foreign folder and becomes off-topic when entering this folder.  Which was what Ricky was mostly basing his erroneous "NA only" disclaimer on - no by-law, no such disclaimer.  There you are, then.

It's not a by-law, it's simply an assumption based on Japan and other non-NA territories having their own folders. Because this entire forum is concerned with American wrestling to begin with, it can be assumed that Old School is meant for less recent material from America.

 

Not to mention that the posters are pre-dominantly viewers of strictly eighties/ninties U.S. wrestling, so posting a thread that fits their preferences creates better discusion.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I don't seem to recall any by-law discussed in this forum which stated that any and all foreign wrestling goes to the foreign folder and becomes off-topic when entering this folder.  Which was what Ricky was mostly basing his erroneous "NA only" disclaimer on - no by-law, no such disclaimer.  There you are, then.

It's not a by-law, it's simply an assumption based on Japan and other non-NA territories having their own folders. Because this entire forum is concerned with American wrestling to begin with, it can be assumed that Old School is meant for less recent material from America.

 

Not to mention that the posters are pre-dominantly viewers of strictly eighties/ninties U.S. wrestling, so posting a thread that fits their preferences creates better discusion.

Ricky pretty much hit the nail right on the head. Old School is for NA-oriented wrestling topics since what pretty much 90% of the board knows of, so storming in here half-cocked like you own the place is not really the brightest of ideas.

 

If you can't respond to a topic without coming off like a whiny bitch with sand in her vagina, then don't bother responding at all. Glorified trolling is not accepted on ANY forum here and is the quickest way to get banned, so stow the bullshit at the door.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Yea Chris, don't troll!!!!! Your ideas might actually get into people's heads.

 

Tim

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Yea Chris, don't troll!!!!! Your ideas might actually get into people's heads.

 

Tim

Sigh...

 

If he was just expressing "ideas", I wouldn't have a problem with him. But since he decided to show that he has the emtional maturity of a 4 year old and act like a condescending prick who's not furthering ANY discussion and just wants to be all "Look at me, I better than you", he's just not going to get away with it. If that doesn't sit well with either you or him, you know where the goddamn door is.

[Guest Jubuki]

If I'm the emotionally "immature" one, well, then, I fit right in, considering our friendly neighborhood moderator loves to swear like a sailor and has the droll handle of "Always Pissed Off," as though the world at large should think you're "scary" and avoid you like the plague. Then again, maybe they should - but not because you're a bad man. If you want good behavior, you CULTIVATE good behavior. When you want jackassery, keep doing what you're doing.

 

And while you're at it, maybe you'd like to note that, y'know, I'm RIGHT about the attitude others brought to this thread - when someone else wanted to bring non-U.S. matches into the discussion, they got jumped on for it. And were you there to take the high road then? Nah, kid, nah.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

That attitude was the specific reason why I added the disclaimer to begin with. Bringing up non-U.S. material on this board is met with indifference every time, and that's why it should be avoided. That in no way justifies the condesending "dare ya to make a point without your darn puro!" attitude of many who posted on this thread (most of whom were just looking for a way to keep from being disproven), but bringing in non-U.S. material only encourages that attitude, and this folder has the implied disclaimer of U.S. only for that reason.

 

The problem is the complete unwillingness of the general population here to back up anything they say, and their insulting logic of why this behavior is justified. When someone comes in with the anti-intellectual "just coz" attitude, it doesn't matter what the subject matter is, but bringing up material that they have no experience with isn't going to make them any more receptive.

[Guest bob_barron]

If we wanted to talk Puro we would go to the Puro folder okay?

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Case in point.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

If I'm the emotionally "immature" one, well, then, I fit right in, considering our friendly neighborhood moderator loves to swear like a sailor and has the droll handle of "Always Pissed Off," as though the world at large should think you're "scary" and avoid you like the plague. Then again, maybe they should - but not because you're a bad man. If you want good behavior, you CULTIVATE good behavior. When you want jackassery, keep doing what you're doing.

 

And while you're at it, maybe you'd like to note that, y'know, I'm RIGHT about the attitude others brought to this thread - when someone else wanted to bring non-U.S. matches into the discussion, they got jumped on for it. And were you there to take the high road then? Nah, kid, nah.

Ah yes... when in doubt, go for the username...

 

I'm not even going to bother explaining why I chose this as my name, but needless to say, it's not because I feel the need to be "bad man" on a messageboard.

 

And while I do admit that attitude has been around on this board, it's up to the members to let the mods know what's going on in case we don't know already. Using the "hey, THEY got to be jackasses, so maybe I can too!" attitude doesn't fly, regardless of the situation. I didn't even know what happened in this thread early on because quite frankly, we've had a severe troll problem to deal with in the past few weeks, so if I missed that little bit of trouble beforehand, then I guess it's my bad, but like I said before, it still doesn't give you(or anybody else for that matter) the right to drop in and mock people just because they haven't watched as much wrestling has you have or said something you didn't agree with.

 

I'm not taking either side of this silly argument because quite frankly both sides have acted insanely petty and should just drop it altogether.

 

And finally, this applies to both sides here, if you want to debate puro vs. NA, do it in General Wrestling since that's the only forum that covers both or maybe even NHB. Anymore flame-baiting PERIOD outside of No Holds Barred results in a one time warning, fuck up again and you're history. That goes for everyone.

 

 

Your "friendly neighborhood moderator" has spoken.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I am moving this to General Wrestling since no one seems to want this stupid feud to die.

 

Debate it there, and try to actually keep it civil for once.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Uh, what feud? Come again?

 

Jubuki posted his thoughts, and while it could considered off topic because he didn't stick to just NA, he included his NA-only picks anyway, so what's the point of moving the thread? Aside from Decon's fruitless accusations of bias (which revolved around him misusing the term) there's been no talk of puroresu vs. U.S. either. Stupidity-laden, yes, but "out of control" it's not.

 

"Oh well, what the hell." - McWatt, Catch-22

[Guest EL BRUJ0]

This thread is ghey.