Does Wisconsin execute minors?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

From FoxNews.Com

 

MILWAUKEE — A mob of boys lay in wait for a man before using a TV wrestling move and everything from broomsticks to strollers to bludgeon him to death, according to their confessions to police.

 

 

After going to a friend's home he thought would be a safe haven, Charlie Young Jr., 36, was attacked with metal poles, 2-by-4's and other implements late Sunday by an ever-growing mob.

 

"This group of kids just kept getting bigger as word spread throughout the neighborhood," Assistant District Attorney Joy Hammond said. "It's chilling."

 

Young, who was found unconscious and bleeding from head to toe on his friend's porch, died Tuesday after he was taken off life support.

 

Milwaukee County District Attorney E. Michael McCann said 13 children and two adults were in custody and expected to be charged in the death. Under Wisconsin law, those 17 or older are considered adults.

 

 

 

AP

Monday: Blood remains splattered on the front porch of the home where Young was beaten.

McCann said prosecutors had not yet decided what charges to file, but were considering murder.

 

In statements to police obtained by The Associated Press, the boys ages 10 to 18 gave graphic details of the beating inflicted on Young a man they knew by street names of "June" and "380."

 

A 16-year-old described how he jumped back each time he struck Young with a shovel handle so blood wouldn't get on his clothes. Eventually, the shovel handle split in two as he bashed Young over the head.

 

He said he stopped on his way home to dump his blood-soaked shoes into a sewer manhole.

 

One of the boys said he held the already bloody Young in a wrestling move called a "cripple cross face hold" so others could beat Young.

 

 

 

AP

Tuesday: This is the home on 21st Lane in Milwaukee where Charlie Young Jr., was attacked.

Several suspects have records for drug or burglary charges, and some claim gang affiliations, although police say they do not believe the attack was gang-related. A few suspects are teen fathers.

 

The mother of a 13-year-old in custody said in a telephone interview that she hoped her son won't be sent to prison. She said he hit Young once with a stick.

 

"Don't take a baby away," she said. "He hasn't seen even half of his life."

 

Juvenile Court Commissioner Dennis Cimpl ordered three more children held Wednesday, saying they were a threat to the community. None of their parents appeared in court Wednesday.

 

A 16-year-old was released Wednesday because prosecutors said there was not enough evidence against him.

 

Police said the youths beat Young after he chased a 10-year-old boy who hit him with an egg and punched a 14-year-old boy who intervened.

 

The 14-year-old boy told police he didn't know the beating might kill Young.

 

"I feel kind of bad because I did not know he was hurt that bad to make him die," the boy wrote. "I do not want him to die because my tooth is not more important than his life is. I'm sorry."

[Zorin Industries 0]

Its the same everywhere now, kids just don't care anymore what they do. Its gone WELL past the point of kids not knowing right from wrong, this was savage brutality, pure and simple.

 

I see stuff like this all the time where I live, although not to this level. I've seen kids siffing glue in the middle of Belfast City centre and the police not lift a finger, and i've seen teenage mothers beat their children and swear at them in the middle of the street. Im really thinking that its time to sterilize the underclass.

[Guest NoCalMike]

"cripple cross face" Yah well I give it two more weeks and a max of 3 more Benoit matches until there is a march of angry parents in front of WWE headquarters ready to blame it all on wrestling even though the "cripple cross face" had little to do with anything.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Those kids should all be incinerated.

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Im really thinking that its time to sterilize the underclass.

Riiiiight. Good call jackass

 

--Rob

[Guest KingOfOldSchool]

The mother of a 13-year-old in custody said in a telephone interview that she hoped her son won't be sent to prison. She said he hit Young once with a stick.

 

"Don't take a baby away," she said. "He hasn't seen even half of his life."

Give me a fucking break. Your son was a willing participant, and elected to hit this guy, meaning he contributed to his death... Just as much as the others who hit him. Your son is as rotten as the other kids who participated in the attack, and should be detained for any amount of time as deemed necessary, as he's a danger to others.

 

In fact, this woman should herself be punished in some way, for not being able to keep her child under control.

 

In fact, another part of the statement that's ridiculous, is that this man's life was prematurely snuffed out, yet her son should be able to continue on with his. I know most of these kids won't be put to death, but they had better be placed in jail for a fucking long ass time.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

They deserve worse than what they get. That's murder, plain and simple.

[Zorin Industries 0]

Im really thinking that its time to sterilize the underclass.

Riiiiight. Good call jackass

 

--Rob

I wasn't serious (I knew I should have said I was being sarcastic)

 

But in all seriousness, I am really at a loss at how to control the rising crime commited by young people. I think that there needs to be a serious look at how children are brought up and how they are treated by the law.

 

Personnaly I blame the parents.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"Im really thinking that its time to sterilize the underclass."

 

I used to say that, but then who would serve me my quarter pounder with cheese value meal?

 

Anyway, O'Reilly made an interesting point: The mob of kids were all black, the victim was black. Would "black leaders" (Jesse Jackson for one) be ignoring this event had it been a group of white kids? Hmmm....

 

I guess when It's black on black crime, JJ doesn't care. Or in this case black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black on black crime.

 

PS: Ahhhh, the one kid said "I'm sorry." That will get him a reduced sentence for sure...

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

It's Darwin's fault...Right Robstone?

[Guest RobJohnstone]

Im really thinking that its time to sterilize the underclass.

Riiiiight. Good call jackass

 

--Rob

I wasn't serious (I knew I should have said I was being sarcastic)

 

But in all seriousness, I am really at a loss at how to control the rising crime commited by young people. I think that there needs to be a serious look at how children are brought up and how they are treated by the law.

 

Personnaly I blame the parents.

You can't, place the blame all on parents. America has no values anymore. With kids at school 8 hours a day and parents working 8 hours a day if not more, where is the time to teach your children? I am not saying these kids were in the right, but blame definitly falls on the value system of america.

 

--Rob

[Guest RobJohnstone]

It's Darwin's fault...Right Robstone?

dude, that's another thread. Let's not get on this topic in 10 different threads.

 

--Rob

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

American values don't include gang violence and savagely killing someone.

[Guest Ken]

Life imprisonment would be an appropriate punishment, with parole in 75 years.

[Zorin Industries 0]

I think its safe to say that these kids have no values.

 

Im just fucking sick of it, that little bastards like this all over the world do stuff like this, and most of the time get away with a slap on the wrist. 10 years ago it would be once in a blue moon this sort of thing would happen, now it seems to be every week this sort of thing happens.

 

The thing is these kids don't care what happens to them. I say a documentary on joyriders in Northern Ireland, and he kids didn't care that the IRA was going to kneecap them if they continued this, because they don't care about themselves, let alone anyone else.

 

This generation may be to far gone to do anything about, I just dread to think what their children will be like.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Normally I put up arguments for or against the death penalty, but this case makes me sick. Fuck it. If it's possible to kill all you can, fuckin do it.

 

If not, charge the kids with the maximum you can get and do your damndest to make sure that they're sent to an ADULT prison, not some pussy-ass juvenile hall where they get pizza and movie nights. Make sure those that are 17 and 18 get life sentances and push for any 15 and 16 year olds that are involved to get it too. Hey, if I had my way all of the kids would get severe jail time, but I doubt they'd charge anybody over 15 as an adult.

[Guest DrTom]

I think lining the kids and their worthless parents up against the wall and shooting them all in their heads would be a good object lesson. Parents: instill some real fucking values in your children. If you can't do that, quit tainting the gene pool by spitting out poorly-raised malcontents and social deviants. We're tired of watching them kill people and get slapped on the wrist while you cry about the chance of losing a child you only care about for the entitlement check.

 

Some things make me sick.

[Guest papacita]

I don't think it's stretching it to place the blame on the parents. Sure, children should be responsible for their own actions, but it's the parents' job to discipline their children, and nowadays (says old man Papacita) it seems as if parents are afraid to try and discipline their kids.

 

As fir the incident itself...I feel that the man really shouldn't have hit the kid (although I probably would've done the same thing) but the beating pretty much negates any wrongdoing on the man's part. They all deserve jail time, but I say asking for execution is a bit much.

[Guest bob_barron]

Put them in jail with the biggest BMF ever.

 

That'll be a lot of fun.

[Guest EricMM]

RJS American values are instilled in kids by their parents. If the parents haven't done so, then they are at least partially responsable for the actions of the kids.

 

It's not TV, it's not the media, it's not "America".

 

It's the fact that these days a paycheck is considered parenting, where children are NOT cared for, and parents are NOT held responsable for the actions of their kids.

 

For every gangbanger or Columbine kid, I'm 90% sure you'll find a shitty pair of parents.

 

I'm surprised that any kids of broken homes ever turn out as some of them do. Some of my best friends had such bullshit to deal with every day they went home.

 

I think everyone with any sense is pissed at shitty parents. I would make that mom serve twice the prison sentance as the kid. Then of course I would make the kid serve the sentance too.

 

I am against mandatory sentancing because it ruins the lives of kids with an ounce of pot, but um if you're bum rushing someone, then you're already ruined. You need to be taken away from normal society, until you're fixed or dead.

[Guest Some Guy]

[You can't, place the blame all on parents.  America has no values anymore.  With kids at school 8 hours a day and parents working 8 hours a day if not more, where is the time to teach your children?  I am not saying these kids were in the right, but blame definitly falls on the value system of america.

 

--Rob

I'd be willing to bet that none of these kids go to school 8 hrs a day and that maybe only half of their parents work fulltime or at all. So acording to your argument they would have plenty of time to instill values.

 

Rob, you think work and education is the downfall of American values?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Johnstone, Zorin:

 

Seems a little hyperpessimistic to conclude that this incident symbolises the decay of our civilisation. I've met dozens of intelligent, hard-working, and good-hearted teenagers who want nothing more than the opportunity to serve their country and make the world a better place. Our armed services are entirely voluntary and overwhelmingly drawn from the "underclass." This isn't a disease of society as a whole or even of one particular segment of it. It's simply what happens when children of any background or class aren't supervised, and American values aren't instilled by their parents.

 

No, I'm not saying that this wasn't an awful crime. I saw the coroner's photos myself and the corpse looked like nothing human ever should in a sane world. I saw the photos of the blood and gore splattered on an eight foot high ceiling. It was hideous.

 

But so was Lord of the Flies. Pretending that this sort of pack-animal savagery (not "a peer pressure thing," as a police officer described it) isn't a part of human nature only increases our own vulnerability to it. We have to acknowledge it and understand it in order to conquer it.

 

It is the parents' fault. "Society" can't be at fault because there is no one coherent society which influences so many children in so many places so uniformly.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Heh, what's sad is, like NoCalMike said, people'll probably march on WWE (and Music and Computer games and Pee Wee Herman), all trying to blame someone else. There will be parents who feel this charge will be justified, so they'll be less willing to take charge, 'cause they believe they're outgunned. Kids will be taught that they aren't really held accountable for their actions, because, after all, when you play "Hard Days Night" backward, you hear "Hey, kids, why don't you all get in a big group, grab various impliments mainly intended for field work, and beat the living poo balls out of some stranger!" And so it gets worse.

I say we give them the old Bean family punishment. The Bean family were a huge, imbred group of cannibals in Edinburgh, Scotland, who regularly kidnapped people, and, well, ate them. They're cannibals. Anyway, they were eventually discovered. All females in the family were burned at the stake, and I believe all men were castrated and given the noose. (I know they were castrated, just forgot how they were executed.) Then the entire family were thrown into a mass grave.

Side note: Above that mass grave is a Burger King, and for a while they sold Bean Burgers. Don't buy them, you don't want to know what's in'em.

[Guest danielisthor]

Though i don't know how many voted in the daily poll, on Netscapes homepage 93% said they all should face the death penalty.

 

Personally, my belief is that by the time your 13, you damn well know right from wrong and the fact that your a minor shouldn't be used in your favor when you commit a heinous act such as this.

 

You won't hear from Jessie Jackson or any of the other black "leaders" until the can find a way to twist and turn this into a racial issue or they can find any way to make some money from it. And someway, somehow, they will.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Heh, yea, if you're 13, and the thought "Hey! Maybe I shouldn't be beating a man to death" does NOT pop into your mind during something like this, you're a lost cause. Turn'em into mulch, plant a tree.

[Guest big Dante Cruz]

I really do have to wonder how the "black leaders" would have reacted if it had been a white man beaten to death in this case.

[Guest HecateRose]

Well, I'm pretty sure that if someone who is white decides to go for life in prison or the death penalty, the black leaders will be all over that for sure. And of course, they'll blame society

[Guest Cancer Marney]

I really do have to wonder how the "black leaders" would have reacted if it had been a white man beaten to death in this case.

Completely justified as an act of cultural reclamation, understandable, even laudable "black rage" against a symbol of their colonial oppressors, a participant and co-conspirator in their victimisation as a people, guilty by association, guilty as sin even if he himself wasn't a racist.

It was all his fault... he should've known better than to be white.

 

Duh.

[Guest Samurai_Goat]

Yea, I turned into a white guy during the standardized tests. I accidentally checked "Caucasian - Non Hispanic origin. Not only do I get to be the target of black rage, as well as be of the only technically non-disatvantaged people (socially and economically speaking, according to some silly document), I also can't dance at all.

[Guest HecateRose]

Ahh . . . but can you jump?