Angel

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Happiness/Love, Anger/Hate, Beast/Awesome, Gay/You guys.

 

Same freakin thing.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

That's what I'm thinkin, yep, that's what I'm thinkin indeed. The Beast is BACK. Y-E-P.

 

He's dead.

 

Really dead.

 

Which doesn't count for much in the Buffyverse admittedly, but the dude was a *henchman*. What makes you think Jasmine's going to take the time to resurrect some dead lackey? Beastie is as dead as Luke, Mr. Trick and that damn pork & beans vamp at this point.

[Guest areacode212]

I saw the episode as being about how religious fervor tends to make people let others do their thinking for them. She was a total messiah figure, with everyone worshiping and kneeling before Jasmine, as well as her going on & on about how everything was preordained. Then Angel gave that little speech about how he no longer has any worries now that Jasmine's around (or whatever it was he said, my memory sucks). And when the gang was out kicking vampire ass, there was a certain "religious crusade" kind of feel to their ass-kicking.

 

Joss has referred to himself as an angry atheist, so it's not surprising that such a theme would turn up.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

That's what I'm thinkin, yep, that's what I'm thinkin indeed. The Beast is BACK. Y-E-P.

 

He's dead.

 

Really dead.

 

Which doesn't count for much in the Buffyverse admittedly, but the dude was a *henchman*. What makes you think Jasmine's going to take the time to resurrect some dead lackey? Beastie is as dead as Luke, Mr. Trick and that damn pork & beans vamp at this point.

Well, Darla was dead dead dead in season one of Buffy, and I mean dusty dead. Yet she was able to come back for season 2 of Angel (which would have been season 5 in Buffy time)

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

Indeed.

 

But she was already an important character rooted in the storyline. She sired Angel. They did bits that whole year showing her & Angel during the good ol' days.

 

She's a very important character in the Buffyverse, while Beastie was a lumbering thug for the Big Evil on Angel who, though he had some cool tricks, boils down to something like an Uber Vamp with better vocal skills and worse fashion sense. An unstoppable monster who wound up being punked like the Judge.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

And the beast fucked AI up the ass...UP..THE..*ASS*...

 

Most stoic villain EVER. *EVER*.

 

He has to come back, and here's why...

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Wolfram and Heart gets rebuilt and teams up with AI to fight Jasmine... so Jasmine HAS to bring back the Beast cause he fucked up W&H so well the first time.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The Judge was bullshit. They could have nuked the Beast and he would have been like "Oh, did I feel a draft" in his badass russian voice.

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

Oh, I'm not going to deny that the Beast went to town on Wolfram & Hart and AI. That's a proven fact.

 

But in the last ep, he's written as a complete and utter SCHMUCK. EvilCordy gives him the riot act and pushes him around as her stooge and Angelus makes him look like a useless idiot. Any trace of bad-assness is cleared out as Angelus mocks him, outthinks him, uses him and then kills him with a weapon Beastie himself carved up out of himself. Several times in the ep he's played as a fool, and that's the image they're likely going to leave him as.

 

Which is sad, 'cause I kind of liked the Beast as a villain. Not nearly as much as you, but I wouldn't of minded if he stuck around a bit longer.

 

About the spoiler - -

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

I imagine Jasmine's already dead or banished at this point. If she's dead maybe the damage done by the Beast & EvilCordy is undone? Who knows why W&H's alive and kickin' at the end of the season after getting curbstomped by the Beast. Or it could be a halucination or a dream, like "Restless".

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

From Reading the Spoilers it suggests that

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Jasmine lives. Besides, they can't kill her off after ALL THIS HYPE. I mean, "everything in their lives have built up to her creation" they just can't undo it in 4 eps. It should be a season-long feud.

 

I refuse to acknowledge the beasts last eps. I will HHH-it and say it never happened and that the beast is just on vacation...to hawaii...

[Guest Kagato Otaku]

I'd agree, but EvilWillow was built up forever as well. She lasted all of three episodes before sputterin' out.

[Guest Mole]

Happiness/Love, Anger/Hate, Beast/Awesome, Gay/You guys.

 

No it's not. I won't get into it, but Happiness/Love are different things.

 

Well, Darla was dead dead dead in season one of Buffy, and I mean dusty dead. Yet she was able to come back for season 2 of Angel (which would have been season 5 in Buffy time)

 

Well if you wanna be technical, she came back in season 1, at the very end.

[Guest Cavi]

Basically, he isn't feeling TRUE happiness with Jasmine. However, in the episode, I think it was called "Forever", when that actress gives him that drug that makes him feel really happy and 'turned' into Angelus again.

Close. "Eternity" is the name of the episode. "Forever" is the name of the Season Five Buffy ep in which Joyce's funeral takes place.

[Guest Mole]

Basically, he isn't feeling TRUE happiness with Jasmine. However, in the episode, I think it was called "Forever", when that actress gives him that drug that makes him feel really happy and 'turned' into Angelus again.

Close. "Eternity" is the name of the episode. "Forever" is the name of the Season Five Buffy ep in which Joyce's funeral takes place.

Right, right, right.

 

Good call Cavi.

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Bumpy bumpy bump

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Am I really behind with

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Jasmine's birth and Fred having to take off

 

or has no one else actually seen this week's episode yet? I figured the Canadian contingent in here would have chimed in by now.

[Guest Mole]

Alright, Cordy and Connor had sex or whatever and Cordy got pregnet. To speed up the process of the baby being born, you need the blood of an innocent person. So Connor got some girl, and Cordy killed her. Connor then touched the blood of the innocent girl, put it on Cordy's stomach.

 

While this is happening, Angel comes to kill Cordy or the baby itself. However, when the 'baby' is born, it is no baby but a human. Just when Angel is about to kill Jasmine, he looks at her and sees how 'beautiful' she is. Basically, she is hypnotizing everyone.

 

Everyone falls under this spell, but Fred then sees what she really looks like, which is a person with an ugly face and bugs coming out of it. Since everyone is under her spell, no one realizes what is up with her really. Fred, and some other dude who tried to kill Jasmine because he saw it too, are the only ones who see what she is really like.

 

Fred runs off because she has no one.

 

That is a basic summary, and I am sure someone can elaborate more if they see needed.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

I liked that ep, thought I was still freaking out about the Caleb episode of Buffy when I saw this. I like the Jasmine character, and I'm enjoying how the writers have expanded on the good/evil point from last ep, like Rudo stated above.

 

And the "money shot" of Jasmine's true face was pretty cool. And I was really amused by the voiceover scene with Jasmine, because they contrasted AI kicking ass and Fred trying to get that stain out. Good times.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Man, this shit is good. The whole 'blood of the innocent' thing that Mole said put it all into perspective. I was wondering while watching the show "How are they going to explain the blood transferance/change dealie", and there ya go. It also explains why it hasn't effected Connor because he was the one to use the girls blood to put on Cordys stomach.

 

On-the-run Fred was HOT. I dunno if it was the camera angle or whatever, but she looked 10x better than she did before. Still miss Lilah. Oh Lilah, you came and you gave with out taking... Sweet jesus lord this show rules.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

You can't forget the key thing about Jasmine: *everything* that has happened in the series has led up to her birth. Everything led to Cordys ascention and Conners birth and their icky lovin to create a vessel for Jasmine (who came down with cordy from the higher plane - I believe - was that clearly explained?).

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Decent ep tonight. I'm glad that the gang didn't stay under Jasmine's thrall for any longer than they did. I still don't buy her as a villain, though. It's a new approach to supervillainy and I laud the writers for originality in the Buffyverse, but I still think I would have been more content with the Beast still running amuck. The happenings on Angel just seem to pale with what's going down on Buffy in terms of grave seriousness.

 

I do think it's interesting how they've arranged the episode, though--really, since about the halfway point of the season, it's been pretty much continuous action, with no time off between episodes. Every one bleeds right into the next in one way or another, so we really have, like, a 12-parter, moreso than has ever been done before with either ME show. Coolness.

[Guest Cavi]

Tonight's ep gets the <thumbs up> from me. A lot of Fred, which was a good thing.

 

Three episodes left and the fate of the show won't be decided until next month. It would suck if it's canned and we don't get a final resolution in the finale.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

They've slowly been turning Jasmine. Last weeks eps. she was all good and nice. This weeks eps. she has shown a lot more darkness - but nothing very aggressive. Her true intentions are still not declared, though 'world domination' seems to be it, so her true villainess ways cannot be shown until that is settled.

 

I'm diggin the whole 'everyone is connected' deal, and Connors reaction to Jasmine saying she ate the people in the room was golden.

 

Still, the beast would be nice.

[Guest LaParkaMarka]

Hey, finally got to see Angel at the same time as Americans do, since I went over to a friends place this week. WB sure is an odd network, judging by the commercials. Anyhoo...

 

My favorite part of the episode was the Connor and Angel duet of "Jasmine", sung to the tune of "Mandy". Hell, that entire Open Mic scene was pure gold.

 

Decent ep, but quite overshadowed by the events over in Sunny D. Still, I enjoyed it. Fred was indeed hothot on the run. The scene with that little hand-eating Goblin thing was rather weird though. I mean, I saw the point of it all, but still...something about it seemed off.

 

And why is she killing off demons? I mean, she doesn't hate em all, judging by the Beast/Skip connection. And I guess she's associated with the time-travel demon guy, since he was the one who manipulated Connor eventually getting sent to that Hell dimension...without angsty teen Connor there's no Jasmine, right? Bah, it makes no sense. Now, at any rate.

[Guest Steve J. Rogers]

Major spoiler for Buffy's series finale, fans of the show Angel are NOT going to like this:

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

Apparantly it looks like Spike is the "Vampire with a soul that will save the world and become human again" that was refrenced in "To Shansu In LA" back in S1.   Not be too nictpicky but itsn't this a bit too much of a cross over? I mean if you are an Angel fan not a Buffy fan you'd probably would feel slightly betrayed by Joss and the ME crew by setting up a major Angel plot point on Angel's show and then do a MAJOR swerve by making the plot about a character you don't know or care about that much (being that an Angel watcher and not a Buffy watcher wouldn't watch Buffy that often if at all)   Plus its a huge leap of faith for ME to think that just because you are a fan of Buffy The Vampire Slayer you'd be enough of a fan of Angel to know that particular prophesy. It would make Spike's death at the end of the finale a little bit easier to take if you knew that he was fullfilling some sort of destiny and could still resurface if there is a new spinoff/movie or some form of Buffyverse cannon, but if you don't know it can be seen as a totally different circumstances.   All I'm saying is that ME/Joss isn't taking into account that just because someone is a fan of a show doesn't mean they are a fan of spinoffs.   Go to any Star Trek board and just see how fractured the fan base is between The Original Series, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Enterprise. Many are fans of just one and hate the rest of the series. Hell M*A*S*H* is considered the greastest show of all time, AfterM*A*S*H* is considered one of the worst

 

Steve

[Guest Lil Naitch]

Tonight's ep gets the <thumbs up> from me. A lot of Fred, which was a good thing.

 

Three episodes left and the fate of the show won't be decided until next month. It would suck if it's canned and we don't get a final resolution in the finale.

I wouldn't worry to much. If WB doesn't renew Angel, UPN would undoubtably pick it up, if only toreplace Buffy.

[Guest Cavi]

One of the stips in the contract when UPN bought Buffy was that if Angel were to be cancelled, they would be obligated to pick it up. The thing now though is that that stip was only for the length of time they had signed Buffy for, which was two seasons. They are not obligated to pick it up now, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. One problem is that Moonves (head of CBS) isn't too fond of the Whedonverse. He shot on it, saying that if he was in charge of UPN when the show was put up for bidding, he would have never bought it. There is also the possibility that TNT, who bought the syndication rights, could pick up the show for first run episodes.

 

And I thought I would mention this, since some people might not now yet - the Angel finale is on May 7th. They are going right through to the end without any repeats.

[Guest Lil Naitch]

One of the stips in the contract when UPN bought Buffy was that if Angel were to be cancelled, they would be obligated to pick it up. The thing now though is that that stip was only for the length of time they had signed Buffy for, which was two seasons. They are not obligated to pick it up now, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't. One problem is that Moonves (head of CBS) isn't too fond of the Whedonverse. He shot on it, saying that if he was in charge of UPN when the show was put up for bidding, he would have never bought it. There is also the possibility that TNT, who bought the syndication rights, could pick up the show for first run episodes.

 

And I thought I would mention this, since some people might not now yet - the Angel finale is on May 7th. They are going right through to the end without any repeats.

Damn,I never heard that. Kind of stupid of him, me thinks, considering the cult following these shows have garnered. And even if he didn't like the Whedonverse, he would be stupid not to pick up Angel. Otherwise, all UPN has going for them would be Smackdown! and the Grandmaster Sopranoes or whatever that damn show is called. Everything else is repeats of shows that ended years ago.

 

And can I give a big HELL YEAH to no repeats.

 

And Cavi, LOVE your avatar. And I mean that.

[Guest Mole]

I just watched the episode today, and it was pretty good. The whole blood thing makes perfect sense now. Connor is a little bitch, and I hopes he dies. He doesn't see Jasmine as a cunt because his blood is involved in the making of her, and I bet it takes her own blood for him to be able to see it.

 

Where did you hear that Cavi about buying the rights? And the TNT thing?

 

I bet they are doing the whole Angel thing going all the way through to May 7th so Angel can show up on Buffy and it wouldn't look odd. Props to WB for doing that.

[Guest Mole]

The April 30th episode:

 

"Peace Out"

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

— As Lorne, Wesley, Fred and Gunn are held captive in the hotel's basement, Angel navigates another dimension in search of information vital to vanquishing Jasmine before she takes to the airwaves to control minds worldwide.

[Guest Cavi]

Where did you hear that Cavi about buying the rights? And the TNT thing?

Quite a while ago there was rumor that TNT was buying the syndication rights, then about a month or so ago, they made a fairly low key announcement regarding it when talking about their fall lineup.

 

As for the rights to the show, I believe it was either EW or Zap2it that said TNT wasn't beyond looking into purchasing if WB canned it.