Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 25, 2003 It's been a bit odd given that we have Beast taking out Wolfram & Heart, Angelus taking out the Beast, Cordy taking out Angelus (& Lilah), and Jasmine taking out Cordy, and then there is Connor who is evil depending on which side of the bed he woke up on. And of course Gwen and Skip. So many baddies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Edwin MacPhisto Report post Posted April 25, 2003 I think it's been kinda sloppy, yeah. They've been packing too much into one season. I really think that Skip's whole "everything has been planned so that this may happen" stuff doesn't fly, for one. We're two episodes from the end, and we really don't know who's responsible for this stuff, why the Beast was really working for Jasmine...altogether, it's a bit too much. I feel like the concepts aren't getting enough time to play out--the Beast was around for what, 6 episodes? Angelus had a few ep run, so did Faith, and now the same for Jasmine. There's a lot of great ideas going on in this season, but I kinda feel like all of what's happened could have been much better developed spread out over 44 episodes instead of 22. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 25, 2003 The thing that bugs me is... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Jasmine dies before seasons end. I mean, COME ON, if the whole show was to lead up to Jasmine, then she should at least get a full season to wreck shit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted April 25, 2003 The thing that bugs me is... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Jasmine dies before seasons end. I mean, COME ON, if the whole show was to lead up to Jasmine, then she should at least get a full season to wreck shit. The thing that bugs ME is... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Wolfram and Hart magically come back from the dead...Lilah included... and I don't think that they give a real explanation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 25, 2003 Well they probably will give a good one. And I am not complaining about Spoiler (Highlight to Read): the return of Lilah. Va-Va-Va-Voom! Plus, they have been playing up Wes's mourning more than they usually do for a characters loss. Wolfram & Hearts return I am not really bothered with, but with that said, they can only be destroyed and can only come back once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Steve J. Rogers Report post Posted April 25, 2003 Unless... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): They do something like "anything killed by a vessel of Jasmine comes back to life" in some stupid reset button approach I mean Lilah wasn't just stabbed by Cordy (vessel of Jasmine), she got decapitatied and deposed of in the manner that Angel Inc. usually deposes demons and whatever they depose of Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted April 25, 2003 But...... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): You have to remember that Wolfram and Heart are not just your ordinary, run-of-the-mill firm...When the beast killed all the employees they turned to zombies. There will probably be a logical (at least within the sense of the world that has been created) explanation for it... have faith in the Joss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 27, 2003 BAH! No spoilers. I finally Kazza'd and watched the episode. Decient one, although why must the even seasons end with going to another universe? Conner is still annyoying, he's Dawnnoying now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kagato Otaku Report post Posted April 27, 2003 Earlier spoilers... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): Wolfram and Hart magically come back from the dead...Lilah included... and I don't think that they give a real explanation. Spoiler (Highlight to Read): They do something like "anything killed by a vessel of Jasmine comes back to life" in some stupid reset button approach Comments... Spoiler (Highlight to Read): What about their contracts? If you remember from an earlier episode, they're all bound to Wolfram & Hart long after they're dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 28, 2003 You guys suck! I'm not reading those spoilers. I want to see what Angel sees in that other dimention and what he finds out. It has to be something interesting, I am sure they have something up their sleeve. Does Joss even touch Angel anymore? If not, who has the final say with everything? Even though Joss doesn't write that many episodes anymore, he does go through every script and makes changes or what-not. Who does that with Angel? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest areacode212 Report post Posted April 30, 2003 Gah! Bush is giving a speech tonight, at...wait for it...9:00 pm. What exactly does the White House have against this show? I hope WB decides not to air it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted April 30, 2003 OH MY GOD, IF WB AIRS THIS I WILL BE SO FUCKIN PISSED OFF!!! Anyway, here is the preview for the finale. Sounds kind of weak, but whatever. Home Spoiler (Highlight to Read): — The sharp, noirish drama wraps up its stellar fourth season with Angel struggling to balance his duties as humanity's champion and his role as a father. As a tormented Connor roams the streets of Los Angeles alone and confused, Angel and the others are visited by a familiar face who makes them an unusual offer: control of Wolfram & Hart. The messenger states that the higher-ups are relinquishing the firm as thanks for the gang's part in recent events. Everyone cautiously considers the consequences of joining forces with the evil outfit, especially Angel, who may now have an opportunity to finally set things right with his troubled son. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted April 30, 2003 No...read...spoiler. I'll see it this weekend when it finally hits Kazaa. Angel just has not been as good as Buffy when it comes to ending a season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Well, that episode was alright. With Lilah coming back, I am completly confused, especially since the preview had Angel in the light and he didn't die. That was different, but I am sure we will found out. UNLESS.......it is just the First fucking with Angel and everybody, because that would be just AWESOME. That brings Angel to Sunnydale, or something like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted May 1, 2003 so how was tonights episode? I'm stuck at work, and can't watch it untill tomorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Nah, I'm not spoiling it for you. Wait and watch it tomorrow, you'll like it better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 1, 2003 It was ok. The season has gone downhill since the death of the beast. It just seemed like the ending to a season that is a set up to the next rather than an actual ending w/ resolution and stuff where we all can breathe a sigh of relief. Which wouldn't be bad if they hadn't set Jasmine up to be the apex of the shows history. There is such a thing as too much build up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cavi Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Does Joss even touch Angel anymore? If not, who has the final say with everything? Even though Joss doesn't write that many episodes anymore, he does go through every script and makes changes or what-not. Who does that with Angel? Yeah, Joss is still a big part of the show, especially after the staff shake ups they had before the beginning of the new season (Greenwalt leaving, the hiring and firing of the Freaky Links writer). Tim Minear is now the head person. He is to Angel as what Marti Noxon is to Buffy. As for tonight's ep, I enjoyed it, but as it was said above, it feels like we may be getting another non-resolution/next season hype finale. And boo to having Stephanie Romanov in the credits near the beginning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Steve J. Rogers Report post Posted May 1, 2003 (edited) Spoiler for Season 1, 2 and 4 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): And boo to having Stephanie Romanov in the credits near the beginning. I was going to say that as well! Is Stephanie Romanov THAT much of a prima donna that its in her contract that she MUST be listed at the start credits no matter what? This is now the third big "surprise" appearance at the end in Angel history and the other two times the actresses, both famous reaccuring characters in the BuffyAngelverse, allowed the show to credit their names at the end rather than the beginning. The two other times were Julie Benz in the season finale of S1 when Wolfram and Hart ressurected Darla in the final moments of the episode and the season 2 episode "The Trial" had W&H try to get Angel to re-sire Darla unsuccessfully so in the final scene its revealed that they have brought Drusillia to LA to do the job. And like Benz, Juliet Landau was only credited at the end of the episode, not the beginning Steve Edited May 1, 2003 by Steve J. Rogers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ripper Report post Posted May 1, 2003 I hate one thing about the ep...Jasmine threw a freakin CAR at Angel, was tossing him around like a little bioth AND had the power to destroy the earth. Then Conner kills her with a punch....A punch. kinda anti-climatic. I also like how she really didn't have some big evil plan abrewin. She REALLY was just bringing about world peace...and she was the BAD guy. Weird. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 1, 2003 The two other times were Julie Benz in the season finale of S1 when Wolfram and Hart ressurected Darla in the final moments of the episode and the season 2 episode "The Trial" had W&H try to get Angel to re-sire Darla unsuccessfully so in the final scene its revealed that they have brought Drusillia to LA to do the job. And like Benz, Juliet Landau was only credited at the end of the episode, not the beginning Steve Thanks for those who haven't seen season 2 and season 3! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Steve J. Rogers Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Thanks for those who haven't seen season 2 and season 3! D'OH! My bad. Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 1, 2003 The two other times were Julie Benz in the season finale of S1 when Wolfram and Hart ressurected Darla in the final moments of the episode and the season 2 episode "The Trial" had W&H try to get Angel to re-sire Darla unsuccessfully so in the final scene its revealed that they have brought Drusillia to LA to do the job. And like Benz, Juliet Landau was only credited at the end of the episode, not the beginning Steve Thanks for those who haven't seen season 2 and season 3! D'OH! My bad. Steve It's cool, you had no idea that I haven't seen it yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Jasmines intentions were odd. At the end there she told everyone to build her a temple, which shows that she had an alterior motive. She wanted slaves. Now, she would have made those slaves really happy, but there's still that restriction of free-will... kinda like "would you rather be a slave in heaven or a king in hell" - whereas being a king just means that you're in charge of your own destiny. Which is what Angel is all about. I liked post-goddess Jasmine and wish she could have stuck around for a while. Connor punching her in the head wasn't really the best ending... I mean, why not just chop off her head with a sword or stab her in the heart or something more dramatic? Maybe it was because her true face was worms and whatnot and he knew that was her weak point...yeah, that's probably it. Va-Va-Va VOOOOM is back baby! And I LIKES IT! Though putting her name in the openning credits was really, really, really stupid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted May 1, 2003 Jasmines intentions were odd. At the end there she told everyone to build her a temple, which shows that she had an alterior motive. She wanted slaves. Now, she would have made those slaves really happy, but there's still that restriction of free-will... kinda like "would you rather be a slave in heaven or a king in hell" - whereas being a king just means that you're in charge of your own destiny. Which is what Angel is all about. I liked post-goddess Jasmine and wish she could have stuck around for a while. Connor punching her in the head wasn't really the best ending... I mean, why not just chop off her head with a sword or stab her in the heart or something more dramatic? Maybe it was because her true face was worms and whatnot and he knew that was her weak point...yeah, that's probably it. Va-Va-Va VOOOOM is back baby! And I LIKES IT! Though putting her name in the openning credits was really, really, really stupid. Actually, I think it was because Connor was Jasmin's father that he could kill her. Remember- Cordy was one weak spot, Connor was probably the second. And I was torn at the end. One one hand, Jasmine wanted to bring peace on Earth; on the other hand, she took away all free will and ATE people. I never felt so torn about who to root for. Of course, if it had been Jasmine vs Angelus, Angelus would have gotten my support. And Lila looked good for, you know, being dead and all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 2, 2003 ...I'd katie vick her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Marshall Report post Posted May 2, 2003 My theory is, maybe Jasmine was the real deal. She came for world peace, but that's totally not what Wolfman and Heart want, so they faked their own demise and played Angel into thinking Jasmine was bad. Now Wolfman and heart have coming out of hiding to laugh at Angel. That makes sense but it also doesn't at the same time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 2, 2003 Nah, Lilah was REALLY dead. Didn't Wes cut her head off? How can you fake that death? I'm telling you, the First is acting like it is Wolfman and Heart. It is starting to fuck with Angel and crew. Jasmine was defiently not there for world peace. After a while, she would of eaten EVERYONE who was on earth, thus everyone would of died eventually. Then, she would of gone on to the next dimension/world and done her business there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ripper Report post Posted May 2, 2003 I think she was being really REALLY honest during her rant at the end of the show. Hell she said that since they screwed up her world peace plan she was just going to kill them all now. The only reason she ate the people before was for her to get the power to send her message to the world. Then it would have been Angel and crew and the Amish vs the rest of the world. But she REALLy wanted world peace. She took the life of thousands to save billions...I think she really meant it. But her methods still made her evil...kinda. Like a said, that is one big bad where you really have to ask some questions about....Then she threw a freakin car...car thrower=evil. She was just a good kinda evil. Lets call her a grey hat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 2, 2003 But she wanted it for all the wrong reasons. She wanted everyone getting along so they could all work together to do her bidding and build her temples. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
