Guest El Satanico Report post Posted May 2, 2003 I think the actual meaning behind the Jasmine stuff is that there's no such thing as a perfect world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 2, 2003 Most likely. Free Will = Free to do Good and Evil. That's also the point with Wolfram and Heart never dying: there must be evil for there to be good. There must be balance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted May 3, 2003 Why does Angel always do a 180 at season's end? You draw out this huge story with the Beast, Cordy, and Jasmine...and with one episode to go they're pretty much all done with (maybe not Cordy) They did the same thing with season 2's last two episodes just coming out of nowhere. And they flipped season 3 around at the last sec with Holtz dying and whatnot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 3, 2003 DAAHHH, never seen Angel season 2 and 3, DAHHHH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted May 3, 2003 saw most of two, never saw 3, So can't say. But hey, I like Wolfram and Hart, so it's cool with me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 7, 2003 Bump, de, bump. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted May 7, 2003 Fuck their last second season storyline changes!...sorry. I don't think enough people care about Conner to make him such a major focus of the last season final and this season final. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 7, 2003 Connor blows big cock, but he is Angel's son, so some focus has to go around him, I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted May 8, 2003 is it judt me, or did they change the opening montage? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TonyJaymzV1 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Im actually starting to dig Connor, his speech last week was good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lil Naitch Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What's with Wesley's grappling arm-deal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Whatever it was, it was phat. Mentioning Sunnydale...hmmm... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What was the thing that Lilah gave to Angel to look at? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Wow, that was really weird. For a season finale, that was pretty weak. However, the best part of the show is....CONNNOR IS GONE!!!! FUCK YEAH!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 And now Angel is on his way to Sunnydale, another fuck yeah!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest fazzle Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Now I'm all sad. Goddamn show. I was one of the few on this board that liked Connor. He was a nice complicated character, and the actor that played him was damn good. And now he's gone. Damnit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest fazzle Report post Posted May 8, 2003 So..just thought.. Now that Angel is a W&H boss, what do you think the chances are of finally seeing a Senior Partner next year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Steve J. Rogers Report post Posted May 8, 2003 What was the thing that Lilah gave to Angel to look at? Some kind of amulet to Spoiler (Highlight to Read): be used in the Buffy finale to help in the battle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I thought the finale ROCKED THE HOUSE!!! One of the best eps. of the year in Buffy or Angel. And the ending TOTALLY fit. Angel did the very thing he killed Jasmine for doing. Except with him, he didn't get anything out of it. He had to lose. That was a selfless thing to do, while Jasmine was very self-involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Oh yeah, and Lilahs return... AAAAAAAH AAAAAH AAAAOOOOOOOUUUUWWW!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LaParkaYourCar 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I missed it. Is Connor dead or did he just leave? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crux Report post Posted May 8, 2003 He has a new life or something. I liked Connor also...oh well, he'll probably be back next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 He's like The Key, IMO. Taken out of the memories of Angel's crew and implanted as a member of that family. The only person who would remember him is Angel. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TonyJaymzV1 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 thats one of Angels best epsidoes ever. The real question is: When(?) Chrody wakes up, will she remeber Connor? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Angel got Wolfram and Heart to erase everyones memory of Connor (except his and lilahs, evidently) and created him a family (Mother, Father, 3 sisters (?) ) and a new life (In return, Angel accepted the deal). The final scene had Angel looking through a window where the family was having Dinner talking about where Connor will go to University (top student - he can go anywhere). Connor toasted to 'family'. It was really, really good and really, REALLY, fitting. I TOOOOTALLLLLY dug the "tour". And the scene where Fred quietly steps about the hotel to enter into the limo WR&H sent and Wes was already waiting there... and then Gunn came about... "Funny how all the Humans are the ones to be corrupted" ... and then Angel was there, and Lorne was already in the Limo drinkin and shit... I marked out like a motherfucker. Wes ~BUSTIN~ out the grappling hook was another mark out moment (Wes' gadgets RULE!), and Fred carrying around the Machine Gun was hilarious - as well was Gunns flirting with his respective guide. The question I have is: What was the panther all about? Does he get like super-black-pather-style-powers now? I love the way they give Lilah all the good lines - it's a very film noir style dialogue and she plays it very well. I wasn't sure about this whole deal, but this eps. put me over - I love it. a)They have Lilah back (Va Va Va VOOOOM!), b)It opens up a whole new world for AI, c)WR&H's intentions are still iffy, but I image they will play ball for a good half of next season and then there will be hints of trickery and stuff. In other words, this eps. was a total HOME RUN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TonyJaymzV1 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Im seeing a Gunn heel turn next season....and watch Connor goto UCLA( which would be ironic since Vincent whateverhis lastname went to UCLA. Yes...I goto imdb alot...shaddup.) The scene with Wes/Lilah rocked, when he tried to destroy the contract Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 You really liked the episode that much Rudo? It would of been a good regular episode, but no so much for a finale. Maybe it is because I haven't seen enough of Angel, but I thought it was decent at best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conspiracy_Victim 0 Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Well weren't Joss and crew unsure about the status of the show after this season? If, for some reason, the show didn't get picked up ANYWHERE, it looked like Joss wanted a somewhat happy ending with Connor getting the family he always wanted and the rest of the gang getting to relax kinda and enjoy being the BMOC. However, there's still a LOT of room for charater development for next season as they get used to being the bosses at W&H or break away (as I think they will). Plus, Lilah returning = VERY happy me. Hopefully her return from hell is kind of permanent. Also, Tim Minnear did a great writing job w/ some hilarious one liners. Lilah and Lorne "They knew what they were getting into." "Her STOMACH?" Lorne "Yeah so this is an evil limo I get that but don't you still restock the cherries? *looks up and sees Angel* Hiya!" Lilah "I'm offering you the deal of a lifetime..... *Big dramatic music queue, then silence* Just not mine." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 8, 2003 Just because it didn't have a BIG BAM BOOM CRASH BANG! ending doesn't mean it was a bad finale. They got rid of a major cast member in a fitting way, closed a chapter of their story, and started a new one with MANY doors left open. I'd say that pretty much well suits what a season finale should be. I also liked all the "little things" in it (Little things - there's nothing bigger... sorry, I am listening to the song that is featured in 'Vanilla Sky" where Tom Cruise says that very thing...). Wes bringing out the gadgets - the first time he did such a thing was against the beast. Lilah coming back - hey, she was dead already and came back hotter! Makes sense to me . Cordy had very VERY little screen time - always a good thing. Shit, *every* character (INCLUDING Connor) was hitting all of their marks. Again, the Fred/Machine Gun deal, Gunns flirting, the Limo deal... It was a near perfect eps. The resolution came in the form of Angel taking away Connors choice/free-will and gave him a newer happier life. This is the exact same thing Jasmine offered to the world and Angel rejected it saying that free-will is more important. When the tables were turned and Angel found himself in Jasmines position, he did the exact same thing she did - but he did it for different reasons and had something else on the line, which makes his decision right and her's wrong. Jasmin got something in return for giving peace and happiness - she fed on those whom she made happy, she also asked them to build her a temple so she could be worshiped. Angle had to give up his son - something he would have never done in the past because Connor means that much to him (he'd never have another son, another relative, another family) - and he also made a deal with his greatest enemies, Wolfram and Heart. Angel sacrificed something, his decision was selfless. Jasmine didn't. She only benefitted from her acts. She had an alterior motive. Her decisions were very self-involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted May 8, 2003 I've never heard of Tim Minnear before, did he take Greenwalt's place or something? Why did Greenwalt leave in the first place? Does anyone know? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
