austin bigger than rock?only a crakhed would agree

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

dmos:

 

Try to use facts without checking them and they shall smite you.

 

The week before the Rocks return Raw scored a 5.4.

 

His return got a 5.7

 

The next week was again 5.4

 

The ratings then declined to the high 3's within 2 months.

 

 

HHH's return:

 

The last live raw was two weeks before...it scored a mid 3 rating.

the next week was a best of that scored a low 2.

 

HHH's return scored a 4.9 (an increase of a point and a half over the last live audience, as opposed to Rocks +.4)

 

I couldn't find the rating for Austin's return...did it happen at a ppv?

[Guest dmos1]

I distinctly recall Wade Keller's site reporting that Rock's return (and the subsequent weeks after) posting a higher rating than 3H.

 

Of course I didn't write the date down, as I didn't know it would be held against me in a court of law :-).

 

I am pretty confident though that was what was reported.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Austin's return happened on Unforgiven 2000.  I'm not sure what the buyrates were for that, but I think his Raw return next night was a 5.5 or something of that nature.  It's actually hard to decide who is bigger.  Rock is a big media star, but in the long run, when a new sensation gets a push, the first thing fans say is "let's see if he beats Austin".  When Hogan returned on Raw and boasted his merchandising and ticket sales, Rock never contended to that.  Only Austin can say that.  Rock never revolutionized wrestling, Austin did.  Rock is huge, but in the end, Austin comes out on top.....IMO....

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Austin's return was at Unforgiven 2000.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Unforgiven 2000 did a 1.5.

 

The other 3 unforgivens have been .82, .85 and .85

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

More importantly...

 

Unforgiven 2000 scored higher than the ppv the month before.

 

WHICH WAS SUMMERSLAM!

 

Summerslam generally scores the second highest buyrate of the year (After Mania)

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

"Unforgiven 2000 did a 1.5."

 

Yes!  The one with Benoit in the main event!

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Basically...to break this down for the slower people like Hurricane...

 

This means that a higher percentage of people PAID to see Austin return then tuned in to see the Rock return for free.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Where are you getting these figures bps?  I could use them whenever I get into an arguement with someone over ratings.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Hey, Hurricane, I know you dislike Austin and you're a Rock fan.  I respect that.  You're representing your opinion and that's what this board is for.  Before insulting me, I just want you to consider one thing.  I remember you saying "Rock has not released a t-shirt since last fall".  Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to wwfshopzone, Rock has a brand new "Get Ready" t-shirt or something like that, and it has been around since No Way Out.  The WWFE themselves (in one WWF magazine way back), stated that Austin has sold the most amount of merchandise for the WWF, over anyone that has ever worked for the WWF.  I don't think the WWFE would just make that up for the storylines.  

 

Moving on, I agree with you totally when you say The Rock is a bigger star.  He is.  With his Mummy Returns appearance, he became the biggest WWF media crossover ever.  Up until that point, not a very many people knew about The Rock.  I remember talking with my guidance counselor no less(circa 2000).  I asked him "Yeah, I'm still a wrestling fan, go figure".  He's like "that's ok, I don't like it but I don't criticise people for liking a specific tv show".  I remember him specifically asking me, "Are you into that bald man who flips the bird at Vince McMahon, a billionaire?  What's his name, Austin something, right?".  For a guidance counselor who doesn't like it, I'm suprised he knows Austin, and not The Rock, being that it's 2000, and The Rock was the biggest star that time.  Mummy Returns caused The Rock to become much bigger.  He's definitely come a long way.  

 

Rock's pops are based on girls popping for him.  If you listen to them, the minute his name is mentioned, you hear screams (shrieks) from girls, then guys come in.  When a girl and guy scream, the girl's is louder.  

 

Being a media crossover sensation doesn't qualify The Rock to being the Biggest Star ever in WRESTLING.  The Rock is definitely on the list, but also definitely behind Hollywood Hogan, and Steve Austin (the 2 most important men in the WWF ever).  Austin was a big media crossover too.  His Nash Bridges appearances gave that show monster ratings, beating nightime tv, and the writers loved him so much they were going to grant Austin his "Jake Cage" spinoff series, but Austin backed out.  Another thing is, if anyone notices, The Rock is a Xerox copy of Austin.  Austin is "black boots black trunks, and the finger", Rock is "Black boots black trunks, and the elbow".  If ya smell what the Rock is cookin' resembles totally "And that's the bottom line, cause Stone Cold said so".  

 

The Rock is the biggest WWF media crossover ever, no doubt about it.  But if you say "Who is the most popular wrestler ever?", most people will answer you, "Stone Cold", or "Hulk Hogan"......

Mummy Returns definately was not the reason for Rock's popuilarity, that is by far the most stupidest thing I have ever heard......

 

If you say that then why in october 99 on when austin was still around, the rock was getting bigger pops and selling more merchandise than austin????  Face to face they went on raw after No Mercy and the fans totally cheered rock way more than austin, as a matter of fact when austin said we can do this right now, I don't even recall hearing an austin chant, only rock chants as the building erupted for him....

 

You can never believe what wwfe says, they also say that rock really got hit by that truck....Obviously he did not....

 

Again Rock is by far the most popular face ever comparing to Hogan which is why they are fighting, Hollywood vs Hollywood....Makes perfect sense at the biggest event of the year.....

 

Bps21.  just by not reading what I say proves that you cannot read and you get high too much.....Cause my points are definately backed up.....Yours aren't......You have no points....and you probably have no life.....it all sounds the same....

You of all people shouldn't be talking about someone not reading a post with what you've displayed here. You're biased as hell and expect everybody to take your opinion as fact or else they are "crakheads" and get put on a list. How fucking juvenile is that? I mean, I may not like Rock a whole lot, but I do give the man credit(something you missed in one of my last posts on this thread), but you just seem to go out of your way to dismiss Austin as if he hasn't done jackshit. Like I said before, "Looking through rose-colored lenses doesn't make your opinion right, kid."

 

Also, basing your entire argument on one single RAW in late 99 after Austin was being pushed so hard and the fans grew tired of him is just plain sad. Rock was a freshly turned face in 99 while Austin had been the same character for over 2 years and the fans got burned out on him. BUT, if you want to use crowd reactions as your basis, then why did the crowds at most of the RAWs leading up to WM turn on him and start chanting "Rocky Sucks"? Or what about the beginnings of the Jericho feud in October last year when the crowds started booing him for being a dick to Chris?

 

Being a immature little shit about this retarded topic and calling people "queer" isn't going to make many people see your side to this, so here's some advice, grow up and then come back when you can discuss things in a RATIONAL manner.

 

One other thing, the Rock hit-and-run is an ANGLE, so of course they are going to shill it like it was real. Merchandise sales are an entirely different matter.

 

 

And, bps, Austin's return to TV was at Backlash 2000, his first RAW back was the very first TNN RAW, I believe.

[Guest dmos1]

Just to clarify, Keller reported a bigger 'spike' in the ratings for Rock's return. And I know that they reported the TV ratings quickly returned to average after H's return - which may not be entirely his fault given the current booking.

 

Sure, Austin had a huge hand in the wrestling boom, but then so did the NWO as well. Fame is fleeting and while people barely remember Stone Cold getting shoved around by Mike Tyson, the Rock's face has been plastered all over mainstream media for the past two years.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Backlash 2000 was the special ref thing.  He disappeared for 6 months after that.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Backlash 2000 was the special ref thing.  He disappeared for 6 months after that.

He just did a run-in at Backlash, not special ref a match. I said Backlash because that was the first time he came back to WWF TV. Granted, his first extended PPV showing was at Unforgiven, though. And he did show up at the very first RAW on TNN which was in August, I think.

[Guest the_hurricane]

Hey, Hurricane, I know you dislike Austin and you're a Rock fan.  I respect that.  You're representing your opinion and that's what this board is for.  Before insulting me, I just want you to consider one thing.  I remember you saying "Rock has not released a t-shirt since last fall".  Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you go to wwfshopzone, Rock has a brand new "Get Ready" t-shirt or something like that, and it has been around since No Way Out.  The WWFE themselves (in one WWF magazine way back), stated that Austin has sold the most amount of merchandise for the WWF, over anyone that has ever worked for the WWF.  I don't think the WWFE would just make that up for the storylines.  

 

Moving on, I agree with you totally when you say The Rock is a bigger star.  He is.  With his Mummy Returns appearance, he became the biggest WWF media crossover ever.  Up until that point, not a very many people knew about The Rock.  I remember talking with my guidance counselor no less(circa 2000).  I asked him "Yeah, I'm still a wrestling fan, go figure".  He's like "that's ok, I don't like it but I don't criticise people for liking a specific tv show".  I remember him specifically asking me, "Are you into that bald man who flips the bird at Vince McMahon, a billionaire?  What's his name, Austin something, right?".  For a guidance counselor who doesn't like it, I'm suprised he knows Austin, and not The Rock, being that it's 2000, and The Rock was the biggest star that time.  Mummy Returns caused The Rock to become much bigger.  He's definitely come a long way.  

 

Rock's pops are based on girls popping for him.  If you listen to them, the minute his name is mentioned, you hear screams (shrieks) from girls, then guys come in.  When a girl and guy scream, the girl's is louder.  

 

Being a media crossover sensation doesn't qualify The Rock to being the Biggest Star ever in WRESTLING.  The Rock is definitely on the list, but also definitely behind Hollywood Hogan, and Steve Austin (the 2 most important men in the WWF ever).  Austin was a big media crossover too.  His Nash Bridges appearances gave that show monster ratings, beating nightime tv, and the writers loved him so much they were going to grant Austin his "Jake Cage" spinoff series, but Austin backed out.  Another thing is, if anyone notices, The Rock is a Xerox copy of Austin.  Austin is "black boots black trunks, and the finger", Rock is "Black boots black trunks, and the elbow".  If ya smell what the Rock is cookin' resembles totally "And that's the bottom line, cause Stone Cold said so".  

 

The Rock is the biggest WWF media crossover ever, no doubt about it.  But if you say "Who is the most popular wrestler ever?", most people will answer you, "Stone Cold", or "Hulk Hogan"......

Mummy Returns definately was not the reason for Rock's popuilarity, that is by far the most stupidest thing I have ever heard......

 

If you say that then why in october 99 on when austin was still around, the rock was getting bigger pops and selling more merchandise than austin????  Face to face they went on raw after No Mercy and the fans totally cheered rock way more than austin, as a matter of fact when austin said we can do this right now, I don't even recall hearing an austin chant, only rock chants as the building erupted for him....

 

You can never believe what wwfe says, they also say that rock really got hit by that truck....Obviously he did not....

 

Again Rock is by far the most popular face ever comparing to Hogan which is why they are fighting, Hollywood vs Hollywood....Makes perfect sense at the biggest event of the year.....

 

Bps21.  just by not reading what I say proves that you cannot read and you get high too much.....Cause my points are definately backed up.....Yours aren't......You have no points....and you probably have no life.....it all sounds the same....

You of all people shouldn't be talking about someone not reading a post with what you've displayed here. You're biased as hell and expect everybody to take your opinion as fact or else they are "crakheads" and get put on a list. How fucking juvenile is that? I mean, I may not like Rock a whole lot, but I do give the man credit(something you missed in one of my last posts on this thread), but you just seem to go out of your way to dismiss Austin as if he hasn't done jackshit. Like I said before, "Looking through rose-colored lenses doesn't make your opinion right, kid."

 

Also, basing your entire argument on one single RAW in late 99 after Austin was being pushed so hard and the fans grew tired of him is just plain sad. Rock was a freshly turned face in 99 while Austin had been the same character for over 2 years and the fans got burned out on him. BUT, if you want to use crowd reactions as your basis, then why did the crowds at most of the RAWs leading up to WM turn on him and start chanting "Rocky Sucks"? Or what about the beginnings of the Jericho feud in October last year when the crowds started booing him for being a dick to Chris?

 

Being a immature little shit about this retarded topic and calling people "queer" isn't going to make many people see your side to this, so here's some advice, grow up and then come back when you can discuss things in a RATIONAL manner.

 

One other thing, the Rock hit-and-run is an ANGLE, so of course they are going to shill it like it was real. Merchandise sales are an entirely different matter.

 

 

And, bps, Austin's return to TV was at Backlash 2000, his first RAW back was the very first TNN RAW, I believe.

listen AwaysJacksOff, you also do not know how to read since my point was not just about that raw after no mercy you bonehead.....Good god what a fuckin crakchead.......By the way again you can never really believe what the wwf says because they always bullshit.....Like saying HHH is the best in the business......I believe he is under rock and austin and in my opinion, if undertaker was face, HHH would be under him too......so again I prove my point not to you but to downhome about something,,,,,and therefore I am done with this forum and am about to delete myself since Downhome did not keep the end of his bargain,.......see ya

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

"And he did show up at the very first RAW on TNN which was in August, I think. "

 

It was the night after Unforgiven.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

BACK TO THE MARK FORUMS WITH YOU!

 

YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH THE SMARKS!

 

what with all of our KNOWLEDGE and FACTS to back up our OPINIONS.

 

Is he gone yet?

[Guest goodhelmet]

"BACK TO THE MARK FORUMS WITH YOU!

 

YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH THE SMARKS!

 

what with all of our KNOWLEDGE and FACTS to back up our OPINIONS.

 

Is he gone yet?"

 

AMEN! Testify!

[Guest dmos1]

A little late night research says that Rock's return drew 7.1 for the overrun, while H's drew a 5.7. The respective shows finished at 5.7 and 4.9 overall.

[Guest Human Fly]

Rock and Austin are pretty close in terms of who is more over now, but at his peak Austin was in the top 2 or 3 over wrestlers of all time. I don't buy the crap about Rock and movies either. He was in the Mummy Returns for all of 5 minutes and we'll see how The Scorpion King does. If you're going by movies Zeus was in "Friday" and "Next Friday" among other things for a lot longer then the Rock was in Mummy Returns. That's why the movie argument is pointless

[Guest Cheech13]

According to numbers that I researched, through Unforgiven of last year, the numbers averaged to this:

 

Austin: 22 main events, average buyrate of 1.22

Rock: 19 main events, average buyrate of 1.46

 

These were calculated from WM XIV on.  And Rock's return to TV was a 5.7, Austin's was a 5.5.  I couldn't get the quarter breakdowns on those.

 

The Rock wasn't a top guy argument doesn't hold as well when he has headlined nearly the same amount of PPV's, and drawn better buyrates in doing so.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

What did the overrun do the week before Rock's return..and a week before HHH's return?

[Guest dmos1]

The overrun for Raw the week before Rock's return was 5.8.

 

Still looking for the number before 3H's return.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

"And he did show up at the very first RAW on TNN which was in August, I think. "

 

It was the night after Unforgiven.

I stand corrected, Kahran.

[Guest Carbon Tiger]

I offten wonder what goes on in the mind of an idito like Hurricane here.

 

For his first topic he chooses a totaly oppion based topic. Nothing that can really be proven or disproven but fun for a nice debate. So far so good.

 

Then he poast his oppion thats fine we all have our own views on wrestling. But he tries to back up his arrguemt with badly written unreached facts.

 

That I would have let go but here is when things get bad.

 

Instead of replying to other peoples facts with an intelliganet well tought out reply. He instead makes fun of their name and insults them while ignoring everything they said.

 

Allow me to make a few points if I may.

 

1)Insulting people on a message board is stuipid everyone's a real big man on a CPU.

 

2)Making fun of user names ah I didn't get it.

 

3)Calling everyone gay. Sense when is being gay an insult I never got that. Its not my preference of chocie but its ceartanly not an insult to be thrown around by fucktards like this. He's probally some dumb 8th grader thinking he's a bad ass by cursing and calling people names.

 

Awwwww he's leaving well guess what GOOD GO THE FUCK AWAY !

 

You haven't shown one SENTANCE of having an IQ above -12. You haven't contributed anything to this discussion. And when 30 people, who normally can't agree on much, dissagree with you  that means your more then likely wrong. Sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling back 4th grade insults while ignoring all intelligent imput that disagress with you view of reality DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT.

 

Jesus Christ on a fucking pogostick what are they teaching kids these days. I'm only 21 and I see people getting stuipider every damn year.

 

In closing here's an insult for you hurricane. And no I'm not going to call you 'gay' here's the reality of it. You go through life as you are now you will amount to SHIT. To survive as a human being you need to have the ablity to see all veiws even those that disagree with your own.

 

All your doing is talknig and talking and your not saying one god damn thing.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Good riddance to him.  Another victory for the Smarks.

[Guest mastermind]

Well, I must say this has been the most heated thread since the old forum to date. I will try to summarize the whole thing here. I'm going to be as truthful as possible. I will also illustrate some things which I feel the wwf is lacking in their characters at the moment which actually catapulted these three guys(and no Triple H aint even close to being in their league).

 

Hulk Hogan: (The Fight for what's right Era)

Will go down as the PIONEER of the modern wwf era(Post WrestleMania era). Selling out the most arenas and tickets in wwf history(according to Jim Ross). Vince Mcmahon BUILT the company with Hulk Hogan. Responsible for the biggest ratings in wrestling history. You can't beat a record audience on friggin NBC(Hogan vs. Andre rematch) between 20 million and 30 million give or take(this is for those who will give it the lowest rating and some who will go with the higher rating). I'm sorry USA and TNN just doesn't penetrate as many viewers past or present. You also can't compare video sales because if I recall WM 3 was selling for friggin $60 when it was released. Try doing that with WM 18.

 

I have posted Hogan's numbers already, awhile back. I'm not saying the CURRENT Hulk Hogan. I'm talking about the PRIME Hulk Hogan. No matter which era these numbers are damn impressive. He had to leave his mark or people wouldn't equate the wwf with Hulk Hogan. Even sometimes during his wcw stint media outlets still put Hogan and the wwf on the same page. He helped MAKE WM the legacy it is. Take Hogan out of the first few Manias and I think the event loses A LOT of glory. People can say whatever they want, but I think 50 years from now the fact will remain.

 

Hogan was also the first real hollywwod crossover that non-fans related to. I'm not saying he was great at the box office, but Hogan did make waves with the No Holds Barred Movie. Too bad it just stunk. He was in more real commercials than any one person including Rock. Hogan was the EPITOME of the good guy champion. It's obvious as the wwf tried to emulate the blueprint all the way up to the Austin Era and failed miserably.

 

Hogan jumps to wcw and soon wcw is actually challenging the wwf. Hate him, but let the truth be told that Hogan broke ppv records for wcw when he joined them and faced Flair. Two years later he led the group to beating the wwf in ratings with a heel turn that was badly needed. I mean Hogan was doing the same damn thing wearing the same damn clothes for 12 years. THAT'S A LONG TIME! Of course he would bore people to death by this time.

 

The following doesn't count if we are basing this on WWF tenures and their place in wwf lore. However I just thought this also has a place because the wwf did bite it.

 

Hulk Hogan: (The gang warfare/takeover Era)

Hogan and the NWO made wrestling "cool" before Austin with the gang attitude which I believe was really playing of the east coast-west coast rap war, but that's another story(see Nash and Hall copying Tupac with the bandana). The crotch chop and reality based storylines were introduced. Hogan cut one damn wicked promo that can be compared to Austin's coronation at KOR.

So, I crown Hogan as the most important figure in North American wrestling history in terms of a wrestler. Recent reports have it that on RAW during the opening segment the wwf history video was shown and Hogan got a huge face pop. During the show though he was booed like crazy. Don't kid yourselves fans know the wwf is the house that Hulk built. They also know the guy is WAY past his prime as well and sucks at this moment. As for match appeal in his hey day NO ONE could match Hogan for giving an epic feel to a match and make people care. Of course he fails in comparison in ring work to this man.

 

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin: (Me Against the World Era)

What can I say. A true favourite on the net and rightly so. The wwf was trying and trying to find the next Hulk Hogan. The problem was there could only be one Hulk Hogan. The problem was Vince didn't realize society had also changed. Steve Austin really started to come along around WrestleMania 13. Sure, we on the net knew he was special, but it wasn't until his I quit match with Bret did the masses actually start to pay attention(again the WrestleMania legacy made mostly by Hogan). His war with Bret Hart is legendary as it divided North America(I use to see USA sucks written in strip bars*don't ask and actually seen graffitti with HF over nWo). Read that again! Bret Hart on a side note gets blasted sometimes, but I don't think it would have worked with anyone else(Team Canada anyone?).

 

This played perfectly into the scenario I talked about above about wrestling playing off the drama of hip hop at the time(which was getting mainstream) of east vs. west. Only in the wwf it was north vs. south. Austin in the meantime was having EXCELLENT matches. He was pitted against Owen,  Bulldog, HBK, and even Triple H on a superb RAW main event in Canada. Still this was NOT enough to topple wcw. Austin was playing into the crowd's love for violence and foul language and Bret played the great foil against such "tomfoolery". However, the wwf was still struggling.

 

Something happened though. Austin broke his neck and even his non-fans started to get sympathy for him. He returns around the time of the biggest screwjob in wrestling history. Austin now the "voice" of America in late 1997 is pitted against Vince Mcmahon who was getting legit heat from all forms of fans. Austin keeps his edge even though he tells fans he doesn't care if they cheer him or not. The wwf is STILL losing the mainstream crowd to wcw until FREAKING MIKE TYSON is hyped as RETURNING to the ring. Cue Steve Austin to get the rub from the hype and a new star of our generation is born for the casual fans. The wwf use WrestleMania(which is still basically the only thing that most casual fans see as any worth for watching the wwf) to show the world THE REBUILT wwf. Austin rides this success and the wwf topples wcw for good in late 1998 and early 1999. Austin meanwhile has excellent matches with Dude Love and Undertaker at ppv shows. Austin is without a doubt the love and frenzy of the wrestling world.......until...

 

The Rock: (The Bling Bling and Playa Era)

That's right in late 1998 The Rock was creeping on Austin, but still had a ways to go. He finally had the heat the wwf thought he should have had. Dropping the title to Triple H he was still over and getting some cheers actually for his match at SummerSlam(fans know a good performer/performance most times) and respected it. Fans get duped into the people's champion facade and his full heel heat comes back for

a nano second before the fans start to "sing a long with the champ". Of course we are in the "bling bling" era and Rock's gear appeals to people who want the best things in life. Selling out for the mighty buck is seen as the good thing by some people of this era. Austin/Rock on RAW do the biggest RAW rating up to that point. Austin is on the chase and Rock is the champion. Foley actually needs to get some recognition since he was gaining steam from his performance at KOR. So, Rock goes in a program with him which is successful.

 

This leads to Mania with Rock and Austin getting a split response. The same Austin that no one could touch in terms of crowd heat just one year prior. Rock loses and immediately turns face after the rematch because the fans just weren't booing the Rock. He gets DE-PUSHED fighting the likes of friggin Billy Gunn at the second biggest show of the year. He STILL rivals Austin in popularity. Triple H is getting pushed down our damn throats and still isn't over. Now Rock in late 1999 is challenging Austin for most over face in the company. Triple H gets PUSHED hard again with the absence of a strong heel to battle Rock since Austin was suppose to turn heel supposedly. Triple H marries Steph through rape and beats Big Show for the title. He then beats Foley twice and STILL isn't as over as the wwf expects, so they put him in a four-way with a "returning" Foley(whose stock at the time was at an all-time high which I think can be matched if he returns now) to jack up the buy-rate. Rock loses and wins the rematch and the numbers are stronger than ever.

Read my other thread for continuation of Rock's career.

 

So, my point here is to show my unbias nature hopefully. The Rock is STILL growing and quite possibly WILL surpass the two men who defined the wwf. We are in the more "entertainment/sports" wwf era and Rock definitely puts on entertainment for the fans. So, that is my order on who is the true icon of the WWF. Don't let me start on Ric Freaking Flair and NWA/WCW. Take this post as a historical account of the progression of the wwf and judge WHO is the man.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Mastermind...that's what I've been trying to say for 5 pages now.

[Guest mastermind]

Oh great I see Hurricane boy has left. Oh well. I just didn't want to look like either a Rock or Austin fanboy.

[Guest godthedog]

i can't believe i just wasted an hour of my life reading this entire thread.  i should not have had all that coffee...

 

anyway: i personally think austin's bigger.  at the royal rumble in atlanta the rock got a very big pop, but when austin's music hit the place just came unglued.  i think it's fair to say that, as a whole, the fans were more interested in austin's ring time than the rock's.  (and to anyone who may say "that's total bullshit the rock's pop was 1,000 times bigger than austin's you're a dumbass": shut up.  i was there.  i saw it live.  austin was more over.)

 

i think history is a better judge of things like this than current ratings or t-shirt sales.  20 years from now, i just don't see people saying the rock was bigger than austin.  austin changed wrestling forever.  period.  he did more for the sport than anybody since hulk hogan, & i doubt anyone else of this generation will change it as much as he already has.  i know the rock has probably at least 10 more years in him, but i just don't see him doing something like that.  that's not a knock to rocky's talent or charisma: it's rare for a wrestler to be that gifted.  he just doesn't have the innovation that austin does.

[Guest dmos1]

That was one show. I was at the Smackdown taping before the last Wrestlemania and the pop for Rocky was significantly bigger than the pop for Austin - which suprised me at the time, given the booking.

 

And as far as Austin revolutionizing wrestling - he didn't do it alone. Vince McMahon playing the #1 heel and Bret Hart's brilliant work as the anti-American villain all played major roles in turning the WWF around and sending Austin into the stratosphere. Of course Austin's charisma was the straw that stirred the drink.

 

You could use the same logic that Austin revolutionized wrestling by himself to say that Hulk Hogan was the most gifted wrestler of all time.