Quick question for Puro fans...

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

So JR calls the Hurricane's kick to the head the 'Shining Wizard'. That's all well and good, but what i want to know is if the Hurricane's version of the move is the same as Mutoh's? Mutoh doesn't exactly look like the most versatile wrestler on the planet and i don't know if i can see the guy doing the move with as much speed. However, i've never seen it done outside the U.S.

 

Any help is appreciated, Illusion-ites

 

Illusion

[Guest RickyChosyu]

It's the same. Mutoh's is usually sloppier, though.

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

It's the same. Mutoh's is usually sloppier, though.

What in the blue hell? Don't tell him shit like that. Mutoh's move and Helms move are NOTHING alike. Hell; Helms move doesn't even resemble The Shining Black, nevermind The Shining Wizard.

[Guest Dace59]

Hurricane's move is just a running Enzuguri.

Darkness Dragon (K-NESS) Did a Shining Enzuiguri, spring off the knee, kick them in the back of the head.

 

Helms says he's try to copy Jimmy Yang's Shining Lef Lariart.... WTF?

Helms, to be shining, you have to spring off the opps knee!

[Guest RickyChosyu]

...you mean a running Enzu-knee to a kneeled opponent...which is a Shining Wizard.

 

I'm struggling to see the conflict here. Helms doesn't always volt off the other guy's knee, but the end result is always the same, and often cleaner than Mutoh's. No need to bust out the catch phrases just yet.

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

Thanks guys, you just ruined my one connection to puro, aside from LOWKI.

[Guest Dace59]

...you mean a running Enzu-knee to a kneeled opponent...which is a Shining Wizard

 

No it's not.

 

That would be just a knee to the back of the head.

 

A Shining Wizard is a "springboard" off the knee, with an knee to the opps FACE. Which would be Gamen.

 

The Shining Axe Kick and Shining Enzuguiri hit that back of the head.

Helm's is neither of these.

 

The end result of Helms' it NOTHING like Mutoh's.

 

Helms' runs from behind/the side, leads and throws his leg out, kicking the guy in the back of the head. This makes it a Running Enzuguiri.

 

Mutoh runs from infront of an opp down on one knee, springs off the opps knee with one leg, and knees them in the face.

This is a Shining Wizard.

 

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME MOVE.

 

Unless you spring off the opps. knee, it's not a shining anything!

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

*bows down to Dace59~!*

[Guest Dace59]

Thank you.

 

How else could I get away with my member title. </Ego>

[EL DANDY~! 0]

I learned all I could from Dace...I was about to chime in...but then HERE HE COMES. I swear man, that just isn't real...

[Guest Dace59]

I'm just that good.

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

teach ME!!!!!!!! Oh and what makes a move an exploder?

[Guest Dace59]

An Exploder is a version of a T Bone.

A T Bone hooks between the legs and around the waist.

An Exploder hooks between the legs and around the head.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

Then (I must add in), Jun Akiyama debuted what was called the Exploder 98, which adds the wrist clutch into it, making it a more vertical move, dropping the opponent on his head.

[Guest Dace59]

Yep.

[Guest Jubuki]

Haha! Everyone: welcome to Two Years Ago on the TNM7 move forums - the part of me will be half-assedly played by Dace...

[Guest The Last Free Voice]

cool. What is a Miricle Exstacy Bomb? [spellings bad i know]

[Guest Black Tiger]

Miracle Ecstacy Bomb is a chokeslam into a power bomb, if the move TAKA made famous is the Michinoku Driver II, what is the Michinoku Driver I?

[Guest Pegasus Kid]

Miracle Ecstacy Bomb is a chokeslam into a power bomb, if the move TAKA made famous is the Michinoku Driver II, what is the Michinoku Driver I?

OK, from what I understand there are two trains of thought on the whole Michinoku Driver issue. Personally, I believe the Michinoku Driver I is simply a Brainbuster. Michinoku Driver II being the move he uses all the time and Michinoku Driver IIb being the Brainbuster version of MDII. But I've heard other folks say that MDIIb is actually Michinoku Driver I. *shrugs* I'm pretty sure the former comment is the correct one.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

"...you mean a running Enzu-knee to a kneeled opponent...which is a Shining Wizard"

 

No it's not. That would be just a knee to the back of the head.

Helms runs from behind/the side, leads and throws his leg out, kicking the guy in the back of the head. This makes it a Running Enzuguiri.

 

There is obviously some conflict between the above two statements. So Helms' move is NOT a running knee to the back of the head, but, his version manages to hit the guy in the back of the head? Yeah, thanks a bunch for clearing that up. And Helms' version looks like just as much of a knee as a kick, as far as I can tell.

 

A Shining Wizard is a "springboard" off the knee, with an knee to the opps FACE. Which would be Gamen. The end result of Helms' it NOTHING like Mutoh's.

 

Sorry bud, but "face" is pretty vague, and Helms hitting around the temple area is close enough that I think calling it COMPLETELY DIFFERENT would be a bit of an overstatement, ya know?

 

The Shining Axe Kick and Shining Enzuguiri hit that back of the head. Helm's is neither of these.

 

Care to explain what the point of this was? I never claimed it was either of those. Hate to sound accusing, but I'm getting the feeling here that you're only out to spout off your "mad move knowledge" (whether the situation calls for it or not) and "earn your title" at my expense. If that's true, I don't appreciate it one bit, and you'd be better off trying it elsewhere. If not, you have my appologies.

 

Unless you spring off the opps. knee, it's not a shining anything!

 

Oh, and I suppose there's some kind of natural law that dictates this? It's just as interpretive on your part to assume that "shining" means "springboard off the knee" as it is for the wreslters who mimic the move and start their variations on it with "shining." So I suppose we should all start refering to knees as Wizards, then? You should consider writing a book about this, so as to not confuse people on what every word means in refference to wrestling moves, I think.

 

Helms knees a kneeling opponent in the head. Whether he steps on their knee before he does it does not change the entire complection of the move, because either way, the guy still gets a knee in the face.

 

Great, now I can argue with the other overzealous dudes who were so eager to correct me before.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

I know I'm joining this argument late, but, Helms doesnt do the Shining Wizard, he basically kicks them in the head. I don't really see where the argument is.

[Guest J*ingus]

I don't think it's quite the same thing. Mutoh always springboards, and tends to hit the side of the head or the face, with his knee bent at a right angle; Helms rarely or never springboards, hits the back of the head, and usually keeps his leg fairly straightened out.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

The leg is more straightened out, but the knee is still what hits, and regardless of whether he "springboards" off his opponent's knee, he gets the same elevation, same velocity, and same affect, that being, a knee to the face.

 

Geeze, I'm having so much fun with this. Next, we can argue about Raven's finish! He usually drops the guy more on his face than the top of his head, and he falls more to his hips, as opposed to his back, so it's NOTHING like a DDT, ya know. Consider yourselves enlightened.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

so he doesn't springboard, use the knee to the face and sometimes doesn't use the knee at all, and it's the same move?

 

[Guest Jubuki]

Watch out Ricky, you're starting to sound like me...and everyone knows where that leads (other than acting like you have a brain)...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

so he doesn't springboard, use the knee to the face and sometimes doesn't use the knee at all, and it's the same move?

 

I kind of implied it before, but "springboard" is really a relative term here. Mutoh steps on the knee first, he doesn't "jump" off of it, and if he wanted to, he could probably get the same height and velocity by merely leaping into the air, which is usually what Helms does. Slightly different set-up, same result.

 

Like I said, he does use the knee. Just because his leg isn't always turned at 90 degrees doesn't mean it's not a knee. It's not like there's much black and white here: a knee to the face is a knee to the face, regardless of the angle of the leg. Make sense?

 

Watch out Ricky, you're starting to sound like me...and everyone knows where that leads (other than acting like you have a brain)...

 

Really? Geeze, I didn't know it'd gotten THAT bad. I just tend to get surly when someone tries to "one-up" me by going off on tangents about stuff that is generally meaningless, and, in the end, pointless. I'm not out to hurt anyone...

[Guest BionicRedneck]

The most obvious point is: Why is this even an issue as the move is such a joke anyway.

 

I think it can be easily solved by saying they are both jumping knees/kicks/some part of leg used to harm the head/face.

 

Sorted.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Works for me. Just as long as no one comes after me with religious zeal for having the GAL to say that the two moves are really the same thing.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

MDI-I'm not sure if it was a brainbuster or a reverse suplex into a MDII. I have this move on Fire Pro called a Michinoku Driver Beta (or some other greek letter). DACE!~ needs to help us. I remember an MDI being just a regular brainbuster...

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I've seen Helmsy jump off the knee a couple of times, when he first started using the shining/notshining wizard/somethingelse. But he doesn't anymore.

 

Why is it sometimes called the shining wizard magazine? (even if it doesn't 'shine')