The most insane head-drop move ever.

[Guest DragonflyKid]

Oh, so Jun himself said that, I was about say what gave you that idea. Jun is just making excuses for being lazy and spot crazy. I am a big fan of his 93-98 work, but he picked up alot of Misawa and Kobashi's bad habits in the late 90s, and gradually detoriated. I agree 100% with what Wolverine said a while back, there is no reason that Jun shouldn't be the best worker in the world today.

 

Posted on Dec 4 2002, 12:34 AM

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Yes, it's indeed quite sad to have seen Jun Akiyama piss away every ounce of potential that he once had and turn into an unmotivated, lazy bastard. What a joke he is. And by the way, the Misawa-Akiyama match from 7/27/01 is THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT MATCH KNOWN TO MAN. It ranks right up there with the Kobashi-Williams 9/94, Toyota-Hokuto 9/95 and Misawa-Kobashi 10/98 matches as one I will never watch again as long as I live, it makes me that sick.

 

Any opinions on why Akiyama has gone downhill? From '92 he was put in against top stars in an inferior role and he matured greatly before he stopped improving and regressed. Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada and Taue all developed around the same time as each other, Akiyama's peers are Ogawa and to a lesser extent Omori and Takayama, those three have only recently reached ME level and Ogawa doesn't deserve the spot. Akiyama has had to face older broken-down guys like Misawa and Vader while his peers were inferior to the post-Jumbo group. Akiyama became a top guy in a style in decline, MM, KK, Kawada and Taue became the top guys in a great style that was being perfected. Akiyama may have underachieved but his situation wasn't really ideal.

[Mrnoitaull 0]

OKay some of you may remember the Pay Per View where Dean Malenko faced Scoty@ Hotty. After constant rewinding, I couldnt see how Scotty was able to stand immediately after that Brainbuster from the turnbuckle. It sold too wel to enjoy when I first saw it !

[Mrnoitaull 0]

OKay some of you may remember the Pay Per View where Dean Malenko faced Scoty@ Hotty. After constant rewinding, I couldnt see how Scotty was able to stand immediately after that Brainbuster from the turnbuckle. It sold too wel to enjoy when I first saw it !

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

OKay some of you may remember the Pay Per View where Dean Malenko faced Scoty@ Hotty. After constant rewinding, I couldnt see how Scotty was able to stand immediately after that Brainbuster from the turnbuckle. It sold too wel to enjoy when I first saw it !

That would be Backlash 2000. I thought it was a top rope DDT.

[Guest Dace59]

It was a Super DDT

[Mrnoitaull 0]

Oh ok, I thought it was a brainbuster seein as how he he was ina suplex postion. Thanks for the clear up.Not realy used to seeing that move.

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

Any opinions on why Akiyama has gone downhill? From '92 he was put in against top stars in an inferior role and he matured greatly before he stopped improving and regressed. Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada and Taue all developed around the same time as each other, Akiyama's peers are Ogawa and to a lesser extent Omori and Takayama, those three have only recently reached ME level and Ogawa doesn't deserve the spot. Akiyama has had to face older broken-down guys like Misawa and Vader while his peers were inferior to the post-Jumbo group. Akiyama became a top guy in a style in decline, MM, KK, Kawada and Taue became the top guys in a great style that was being perfected. Akiyama may have underachieved but his situation wasn't really ideal.

I see what your saying, "Jun isn't as good as he once was, because he is no longer working with great wrestlers in their pyshcial primes."

 

However, this no excuse to be lazy and not even bother trying to put on a good match. Kawada was able to drag a MOTYC out of a Gary fucking Albright, and a MOTDC out of a crippled Kenta Kobashi, because he busted his ass to make them look good and put on a great match. Just because your opponent is past his psyhical prime doesn't mean you can't have a good match with him. And just because your past your psyhical prime doesn't mean you stop having good matches. You just get smarter, and learn to build matches around your flaws and more towards your strengths.

 

Look no further than the Kobashi/Hansen series in 93. Hansen was older and broken down too, but that didn't stop him from having the best performances of his career. While Kobashi also busted his ass to assit Hansen in making the match a classic. Jumbo did even better job of this, than Hansen. Misawa and Vadar could be doing matches like that, but they choose not too.

 

This goes back to the Head dropping era, Misawa and Kobashi started relieing soley on head drops to pop the crowd. With Misawa being Jun's mentor type person, I'm sure this influenced Jun. Why bother workng and thinking your ass off to have a great match, when I can still pop the crowd with headdroparamas. Jun isn't even trying anymore, which is sad because he was once such an emotional wreslter who's selling would have became as good as if not better than Kawada's.

[Guest griffinmills]

Dan Severn German Suplex some guy and knock him out on one of the early UFCs.

 

Top Rope Power Bombs rule and all variations of Awesome Bomb

 

Nash vs Giant in WCW

Seconded!

[Guest Ravenbomb]

if it's been mentioned then I must've missed it, but:

Dreamer giving RVD that piledriver where RVD bounced 4 feet into the air.

[Guest Gary Busey]

We need more video clips, people!

 

I would really like to see the just mentioned RVD/Dreamer spot and a clip of the Steiner Screwdriver-- I've seen it in the video games, but seeing actual people perform it would be quite nice.

[Guest Dace59]

It'll be hard to get a clip of a game style SSD. (See eariler post of mine in the topic)

[Guest Kibagami]

I'm sure the move is in No Mercy, if that helps at all.

 

K.

[Guest Dace59]

Yes it is.

But like I saidm he only ever did the suplex to inverted piledriver a few rare times.

 

Now the move is a Cradle Inverted Piledriver.

[Guest godthedog]

owen takes it in the bret/owen v. steiners match from late 93-early 94. it looks beautiful.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

OK. The Akiyama bump in question: It was the 12/23/00 match with Kobashi...totally Vertical Burning Hammer, hardly any protection. Jun was DEAD after that move. And I agree. His stuff from what I saw in my Best of Japan 2001 wasn't thoroughly great. I do however think that CONSIDERING THE CIRCUMSTANCES (Akiyama being kinda pussy-like and Misawa being broken down) 7/21/01 was at the most, a watchable match. It isn't a match that screamed, "THIS MATCH FUCKING SUCKS!", but it certainly could have been better. A WHOLE lot better.

 

Head drop Trivia: Kobashi has only hit the Burning Hammer three times: Twice on Misawa and once on Akiyama.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

man, Thrasher's hit the Burning Hammer more times than Kobashi, how messed up is that?

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

Yeah, but then again, that statement will probably get Dace on your ass because the move Thrasher hits technically isn't the Burning Hammer (In order to be considered such, you have to sit the guy on the top rope, then pull him off into the move) and besides, it's an uber-wussified version. None of that good-ol' neackbreakery in the US, I suppose...

[Guest Dace59]

Thrasher does an Inverted Fireman's Carry to Pancake.

 

Yep, the wussy version indeed.

But it did look sort of cool.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

If there's one thing I hate about American wrestling, and there's not, there's like 270 things, it's people not being dropped on thier head. What's the point of creating all these complicated new moves if they don't drop anybody on thier skull?

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

Yeah...God forbid they actually try to be safe...

 

Though in some indys, there's some head-droppage. Like Jay Briscoe's Half-and-Half. That's just not safe.

 

Or a fucking invertacanrana (I doubt that's actually the name, but it should be). That's just sick.

 

And while I'm on the topic, I saw some CZW clipjob match the other day that I downloaded - It was like, Ruckus vs. 2 other guys in a 3-way ladder match.

 

Anyway, at one point, I saw what could've been the single worst blown spot in the history of wrestling, and ended with a very badly broken neck.

 

One guy ran, jumped off another's back with an SSP, and Ruckus caught him with A FUCKING DIAMOND CUTTER. There were so many ways for that to go wrong...

[Guest J*ingus]

If there's one thing I hate about American wrestling, and there's not, there's like 270 things, it's people not being dropped on thier head. What's the point of creating all these complicated new moves if they don't drop anybody on thier skull?

Maybe because I can probably count on my hands the number of wrestlers today who can take headdrops with any degree of reliable safety?

[Guest Tod deKindes]

Triple H dropping a jobber RIGHT on the top of his head with a fucked up Pedigree. Got the video evidence to back it up.

 

That is all.

[Guest B-X]

Yeah...God forbid they actually try to be safe...

 

Though in some indys, there's some head-droppage. Like Jay Briscoe's Half-and-Half. That's just not safe.

 

Or a fucking invertacanrana (I doubt that's actually the name, but it should be). That's just sick.

 

And while I'm on the topic, I saw some CZW clipjob match the other day that I downloaded - It was like, Ruckus vs. 2 other guys in a 3-way ladder match.

 

Anyway, at one point, I saw what could've been the single worst blown spot in the history of wrestling, and ended with a very badly broken neck.

 

One guy ran, jumped off another's back with an SSP, and Ruckus caught him with A FUCKING DIAMOND CUTTER. There were so many ways for that to go wrong...

Jesus Christ.. I MUST see this..

[Guest Coffin Surfer]

If there's one thing I hate about American wrestling, and there's not, there's like 270 things, it's people not being dropped on thier head. What's the point of creating all these complicated new moves if they don't drop anybody on thier skull?

Well since Head Dropping played a key role in helping to ruin the greatest promotion in history, one could only imagine what it would do for a piece of shit fed like 2002 WWE.

 

It's more like wha'ts the point of creating all these complicated moves, if you still have no clue how to even work a five fucking minute long match.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Well since Head Dropping played a key role in helping to ruin the greatest promotion in history, one could only imagine what it would do for a piece of shit fed like 2002 WWE.

 

It's more like wha'ts the point of creating all these complicated moves, if you still have no clue how to even work a five fucking minute long match.

well, it might keep me awake during Raw for one thing. Of course, you guys are all right. If guys don't know how to take nasty ass paralyzer moves, then they will get hurt. And like Surfer said, there about a thousand indy spot monkeys who need to worry more about learning how to wrestle than thinking of new ways to kill eachother.

 

What really pisses me off is when people do safe versions of moves, like the WWE "Brainbuster". Then the guy plays dead like he ate a fire thunder driver or something.

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Here is why: You can make anyone move look painful with selling. Hence two finishers in WWE are an overblown eblow drop and a two minute taunt before a forearm across the chest.

 

Head dropping in the States is not really needed. Since the WWF has a hard enough chance as it is keeping their roster healthy without adding unneeded head drops. From doing tamer moves 1 retired from a crippled neck, 5 needed their neck fused, two torn quads, 4 torn ASLs, and one has a tear on their shoulder bigger than a US quarter. This is all in the last 2 years.

[Guest XdojimeX]

"It'll be hard to get a clip of a game style SSD"

 

Hase is the only one I've seen take the bump quite like that. Actually I think the first time Steiner did it was against Hase. Just because I remember the crowd response so well, I dont think they had seen it prior. It was a tag title match at the Osaka dome, and Osaka has a notoriously tough crowd. They we're pretty dead for most of the match but when he hit this thing I've never heard a Japanese crowd make that noise before. Like they just saw a guy executed in the ring or something. You could still hear the buzz a minute later. It was that nasty a visual. Wonderfully protected but man a lot of things could go wrong there. Steiner used to be a friggin' beast.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

He still is XdojimeX, he's just a roided up ape-monkey beast.

 

And remember kids, if an actual Burning Hammer occured in the US, Kenta would get a hold of it and send some Yakuza to that person's house to teach somebody a lesson they won't soon forget.

 

On the subject of head dropping killing AJPW, I can second that. I didn't see a good AJPW match in 2001 (besides Mutoh/Kawada and Mutoh/Tenryu, which were only good because both Kawada and Tenryu carried Mr. Lazy, who actually brought the working boots those nights) and from the late 90s, Misawa must have thought that head-dropping was the new craze or something. Geez. I mean, in all seriousness, I think it should be that one head-dropper ENDS it, like Kobashi's Burning Hammer or Misawa's TD 91. THREE HOMICIDAL DANGEROUS BACKDROP DRIVERS in the 1993 (1994?) Kobashi/Williams TC match was absolute overkill. It made me SICK to see that. The Indies don't realize that flashy moves can get over without killing somebody. Take Chris Daniels' Last Rites. He SNAPS that fucker off and it looks good. Donovan Morgan's Golden Gate Spin. He makes it look MEGA-KEEN. The Styles Clash looks wicked awesome on its own. The Rikishi Driver with the safe head bump is fine. The Tombstone taken the same way is perfectly fine, but seriously, I don't need to see in the upcoming March 2003 GHC Heavyweight Title match Kobashi no-sell a TD 91 and then jump up and Misawa can no-sell his Burning Hammer. There is no reason for that at all. Head-dropping has gotten out of control, and I think it might take a bump like that one Joshi star took or the Droz incident to tone down the number of insane bumps like that. But I KNOW there are people in the organization in the WWE who can help people take safe bumps on their head and neck if it comes to it. Callaway has done it for years.

 

One note on AJ Styles: This guy, although he really has those two set finishers in his arsenal (Styles Clash, Spiral Tap), he's hit an Air Raid Crash AND he's hit a Fire Thunder Driver to get a victory. That also shows you how silly moves can be used. A pancake like the Styles Clash is automatically greater than the Driver because of it's use as a finisher. Also, if he busts a neck-breaking Styles Clash (where instead of falling forward, he sits out), I will kill him, because that move is just not safe at all, no matter how many people can take that bump.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Also, if he busts a neck-breaking Styles Clash (where instead of falling forward, he sits out),

jesus, even I would call that overkill.

[Guest The Metal Maniac]

BX...pop over to CZWwrestling.de, into the Multimedia section - It's the 3-Way Ladder match. Bang.

 

Personally, I think if you're gonna do a head bump, do it right. Set it up where one guy just can't get the win in the big match, so he drops the other guy right on his head for the win. Guy takes a few weeks off, and when he comes back, the feud is ready to roll again..."You tried to fucking kill me!"

 

I'd greatly perfer that to rolling backdrop drivers, because that one big bump MEANS something. If you do 45 head drops in a match, no one cares about them.