Is God happy with you, or Angry?

[Guest Jubuki]

What God?

[Guest J*ingus]

Careful asking questions like that, God will smite you while Lucifer fucks you up the ass, or something.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

Alright then, you base your faith on an intangible feeling. But lots of religions have this. It's one of the most important aspects of Mormonism (I'm assuming Dopey, that you are not a supporter of the Mormon church or it's ideals, correct me if I'm wrong). They call it a "burning in the bosom". They all get this feeling of being reborn, and a new creation. They can't all be the path to God. Which of these inner sensations of being saved is correct? There's no measuring stick for this type of thing. You can't know.

Which means, at best, Christianity is a religion where:

1. You have no say in the matter of whether or not you're saved.

2. You have no way of ever knowing (before you die, at least), whether you even are saved, or just deluding yourself.

 

Leading me to the conclusion that, even if it were all true, it would still be pointless.

[Guest Ram]

Quick poll: If you do believe in God, or if you don't, assume you DID, would you/do you believe in hell/eternal pain/punishment?

 

Personally, I don't think there would be a place like that. I'm not the most forgiving person alive, but I don't think anyone is subject to eternal pain or distachment from happiness/joy/fun.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I probably would believe in a Hell. I used to burn ants with a magnifying glass. To a supreme being, sending us to Hell wouldn't be much different.

[Guest Danny Dubya v 2.0]

No, 'tis a lie.

[Guest Dopey]

Alright then, you base your faith on an intangible feeling. But lots of religions have this.

IDRM, no my friend I do not base my faith on a feeling. I base my faith on the Resurrection of Jesus Messiah of Nazareth. And although I have felt and understood the witness of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:16) confirming to me that I am a child of His; that is not the basis of my faith.

 

The base, the crux, the conerstone of the Christian faith is and always will be the Resurrection of JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, the Holy One of Israel.

 

..."SURELY HE HAS BORNE OUR GRIEFS

AND CARRIED OUR SORROWS;

YET WE ESTEEMED HIM STRICKEN,

SMITTEN BY GOD, AND AFFLICTED.

BUT HE WAS WOUNDED FOR OUR TRANSGESSIONS,

HE WAS BRUISED FOR OUR INIQUITIES;

THE CHASTISEMENT FOR OUR PEACE WAS UPON HIM,

AND BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED.

ALL WE LIKE SHEEP HAVE GONE ASTRAY;

WE HAVE TURNED, EVERY ONE, TO HIS OWN WAY;

AND THE LORD HAS LAID ON HIM THE INIQUITY OF US ALL.

 

..."FOR HE WAS CUT OFF FROM THE LAND OF THE LIVING;

FOR THE TRANSGRESSIONS OF MY PEOPLE HE WAS STRICKEN." Isaiah 53

 

..."NOW AFTER THE SABBATH, AS THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK BEGAN TO DAWN, MARY MAGDALENE AND THE OTHER MARY CAME TO SEE THE TOMB. AND BEHOLD, THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE; FOR AN ANGEL OF THE LORD DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, AND CAME AND ROLLED BACK THE STONE FROM THE DOOR, AND SAT ON IT. HIS COUNTENANCE WAS LIKE LIGHTNING, AND HIS CLOTHING AS WHITE AS SNOW. AND THE GUARDS SHOOK FOR FEAR OF HIM, AND BECAME LIKE DEAD MEN.

BUT THE ANGEL ANSWERED AND SAID TO THE WOMEN, "DO NOT BE AFRAID, FOR I KNOW THAT YOU SEEK JESUS WHO WAS CRUCIFIED. HE IS NOT HERE; FOR HE IS RISEN, AS HE SAID. COME, SEE THE PLACE WHERE THE LORD LAY. AND GO QUICKLY AND TELL HIS DISCIPLES THAT HE IS RISEN FROM THE DEAD, AND INDEED HE IS GOING BEFORE YOU INTO GALILEE; THERE YOU WILL SEE HIM. BEHOLD, I HAVE TOLD YOU." Matthew 28:1-7

 

 

I hope this clears this feeling thing up for you.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I know that stuff you said is what you're basing your faith on. The feeling is just the confirmation that tells you your faith is not in vain.

[Guest SP-1]

*sigh*, here I go again . . .

 

I feel I should point out that while God certainly can snap his fingers and call someone to Himself, that's kind of making Him machine-like. He's a living entity that seeks us out on a relational level. He works in a process, in somewhat of a give and take with us. He takes the time and prods you along, revealing things to you and interacting with you because he wants it to be your choice to come to Him.

 

Leaving that out of an examination of His overall motives and character takes you onto a path of discussing an all powerful entity, but not God the Father of Jesus Christ, God the Creator. It's a whole different discussion entirely. He's a personal, relational being, so He takes time, works in a process, and interacts with you. He reveals aspects of Himself to you in a growing dialogue so you can make your own decision to trust Him.

 

I can kidnap someone and force them to be my friend and "love" me at knifepoint for eternity, but letting them get to know me over time and them choosing to love me and be with me is something so much more meaningful and real and, well, true.

 

There. Now I fade into background noise again. I'm not going to argue endlessly.

 

EDIT: Jingy, is Dopey really Sola?

[Guest Ram]

I can kidnap someone and force them to be my friend and "love" me at knifepoint for eternity, but letting them get to know me over time and them choosing to love me and be with me is something so much more meaningful and real and, well, true.

But technically, you ARE at knifepoint if hell exists.

 

It's love me or have eternal pain.

[Guest SP-1]

Some people seem to have little problem with examining the options and choosing Hell, amazingly enough. It isn't knifepoint, as God's not threatening you. We inhereted sin. We die. Our souls go somewhere. Sin keeps us away from God. Jesus died to bridge that gap. We have a choice of our own free will, not a knife to our throat. Believe in what Christ did and grow with God, or strike out on your own. You'll still die of mortal means one way or another. Your choice to be in Christ is a path to Heaven. Rejecting him, your own choice, closes that road off and Hell is the other destination. I don't think God wants that for anyone, but without the Jesus factor to negate sin, which God devised and implemented out of love for us, sin is a barrier that bars you from Heaven. God isn't holding you at knifepoint, sin is. You have the option to turn things around and live for what's important. Those are the paths, you have a choice of your own. It's up to you.

[Guest MrRant]

Depends on what your concept of hell is and what your concept of heaven would be and whether your want instant gratification or if you would rather hold out (can't find another way to put it) and get gratification later.

[Guest SP-1]

Mine's the biblical concept, but I think I see what you're saying Rant.

[Guest MrRant]

Mine's the biblical concept, but I think I see what you're saying Rant.

Well dammit. My attempt at being "mysterious" failed.

 

Did you know that I am actually an ordained minister? Its true.

[Guest SP-1]

LOL, you know Rant, for some reason I actually picture you as looking alot like Ed O'neil.

[Guest MrRant]

Well I don't. :-) But if anyone needs someone to do a wedding or needs to confess their sins....

[Guest SP-1]

Wait, were you talking about the church of No Ma'am, or were you actually involved in ministry?

[Guest Dopey]

Dopey, I have to ask you a question.

 

Do you believe that when a person is saved, they automatically are able to do a complete 180 and repent of everything immediately?

Yes (Philipians 4:13). However, it usually takes time before a person can kick certain habits of sin. That deals with sanctification not salvation.

[Guest MrRant]

Wait, were you talking about the church of No Ma'am, or were you actually involved in ministry?

I am actually ordained. No bullshit.

[Guest SP-1]

Wow. Do you still practice or have you pursued other interests? Just out of curiosity.

 

Dopey, do you believe in a relationship with God?

[Guest MrRant]

Trust me SP. You know more about the bible then I do.

[Guest SP-1]

I dunno. In all honesty I'm not in there near enough as I should be. I read alot of other people's work and go through my Bible for specific things or for comfort at times. But I'm not in it like I should be.

[Guest MrRant]

Well... I should probably BUY a bible.

[Guest SP-1]

LOL, that might help if you were looking to go through it.

 

So, how'd you come to be ordained if you don't mind my asking? I mean, I know there are lay-pastors and whatknot, people feel ordained directly from God to do something, and then there are the "official" people ordained through a church after an educational background and such. And others, I probably don't know about.

[Guest Dopey]

Quick poll: If you do believe in God, or if you don't, assume you DID, would you/do you believe in hell/eternal pain/punishment?

Ram, this is from the bible 2 Thesalonians 1:6-10.

 

..."since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed form heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed."

 

There are many more passages dealing with eternal punishment, but I feel it would be Over-kill after reading this one passage.

 

Now you may understand why Jonathan Edwards wrote the sermon 'Sinners In The Hands Of An Angry God'. Even Christians tremble reading the Word of God sometimes. Knowing this is going to happen, that is why little dopeys like me want to see everyone they know to come to Jesus and repent.

[Guest Dopey]

Dopey, do you believe in a relationship with God?

Yes.

..."But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

[Guest SP-1]

Dopey, it's great that you can spout off verse left and right, but I feel a need to point out that to someone not harboring the Holy Spirit to open their eyes to a certain point, it's just words. It isn't going to pursuade anyone.

 

Start talking about your relationship with God. How these things are applying to you in everyday life. Circumstances and the like. People may be more inclined to talk with someone rather than just have verses thrown at them constantly.

[Guest Dopey]

Dopey, it's great that you can spout off verse left and right, but I feel a need to point out that to someone not harboring the Holy Spirit to open their eyes to a certain point, it's just words.  It isn't going to pursuade anyone.

 

Start talking about your relationship with God.  How these things are applying to you in everyday life.  Circumstances and the like.  People may be more inclined to talk with someone rather than just have verses thrown at them constantly.

I hear you Spider, but this is why I post like I do.

 

..."Now it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously."

And He said to them, "Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father's business?" Luke 2:46-49

 

..."Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease. He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all." John 3:29-31 Words of John the Baptist.

 

..."SO THEN FAITH COMES BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD."

Romans 10:17

 

 

 

There are billions of opinions about God and what He said; but only One counts!!!

GOD's!!!

It might be fun to listen to other peoples opinions and their arguments, but in the end it still comes down to the fact that 'FAITH COMES BY HEARING...THE WORD OF GOD'.

I really want people to hear what God has to say.

[Guest Ram]

It's funny because a few years ago, I wanted to become a deacon after I retired.

 

For some reason (until now), I've forgotten completely about that. *shrugs*

 

Thanks for answering SP. 2003 should be a little different, I'd hope.

[Guest SP-1]

*bangs head against wall in response to Dopey's response*

 

I have hope that 2003 will be a fortunate year, Ram.